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    325e Problem - Running STUPID rich

    Hello R3V Members,
    First time post for me because I'm looking for some fast help.
    My family and I have a race next weekend and our car is still running really bad - bad as in super rich. Any help or suggestions would be great.

    Background:
    - Bought a 1986 BMW 325e - 2.6L M20B27
    - The car ran good when bought it. When it was cold OK, warm OK, highway cruising OK and acceleration OK.
    - Overall car was in good shape but wanted to make sure it would last the race so we change some things. Starting to think this was a stupid move.

    Changed:
    - New timing belt
    - New rings, main bearings and rod bearings.
    - Thermostat
    - New head gasket
    - Took out the charcoal canister and plugged the inlet on the throttle body.

    Problem:
    - The car will idle well and smooth when cold. Sounds good but running super rich. Once car warmed up, running rough.
    - When engine has NO LOAD, engine rev's up but pops and hesitates cold and warm.
    - When driving and accelerating, engine will bog down and runs terrible.
    - We have fouled out 2 sets of new NGK ZGR5A and Bosch WR9LS plugs.
    - Fouled out ALL 6 spark plugs.
    - Pulled the plugs and they have gas on them and carbon build up. Again, on all the plugs.


    Tried to Fix:
    - Air Flow Meter (AFM)-> OK. Replaced with new one.
    - Coolant thermostat sensor -> OK. Replaced with new one.
    - ECU -> OK. Replaced with new one. Bosch Basic 1.0 (0-261-200-027)
    - Throttle position sensor -> Confirmed with Bentely handbook with the resistance at wide open throttle and idle. Was OK.
    - Fuel regulator -> OK. replaced with new one.
    - Compressions readings are:
    #1: 196 #2: 195 #3: 195 #4: 195 #5: 185 #6: 190
    - Vacuum leaks -> Plugged air compressor into brake booster inlet, plugged up throttle body with hand and listened for leaks. Air built up pressure and got difficult to keep my hand on. Will need to test again with another set of hands.
    - Fuel Pressure: Held steady at 36psi (Have to double check #'s)
    - Tried New coil: Nothing changed from new to old coil.
    - Timing Belt: I think the timing is OK because runs good at idle and I checked when replaced by rotating the crank 720° and dashes still lined up..but don't know how to confirm when everything back together.

    The car ran a little better with changes, but still having fouling plugs issues.

    Have NOT tried:
    - Oxygen Sensor. I wouldn't think O2 sensor would tell engine to run THAT rich to foul out plugs. Will be replacing with new one tomorrow and confirming.
    - Idle control Valve - maybe something is sticking or not letting enough air into engine. Don't know.
    - Injectors: I have not checked the injectors to confirm if they are stock or not. But ran OK before.
    - Plug wires: Have not checked resistance. All plugs not getting hot enough?

    Questions:
    1. What the heck is going on with this thing?
    Running out of ideas and any suggestions would be awesome.
    2. How can I trick the ECU to run more lean?
    Could I create hole somewhere and allow more air to get in?
    3. If the 02 sensor is not it, what else could I check?
    4. Dump a bunch of Redbull energy drink in the gas tank to give the car wings?

    I appreciate all the comments and suggestions. We are up for trying anything to get this running.

    We live in the Detroit area and anybody willing to drive over (better if in E30) to help us out...you'll have a case of beer waiting.

    Thanks for your help.

    Best,
    T

    #2
    Pull the injectors, jumper the fuel pump relay so the pump runs, and see if the injectors are leaking. Note that there is a cold start valve in addition the the injectors. All must checked.
    The car makes it possible, but the driver makes it happen.
    Jim Levie, Huntsville, AL

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for suggestion jlevie. We will try it out.

      We spent most of day working on car with some promising results.

      Changed:
      - Put on a new O2 sensor (Bosch).
      - Removed all of the baffling (Steel wool ?) and catalytic converter pieces
      - Put in set of cleaned NGK plugs after being fouled out.

      After doing these, the car would actually run and sounded pretty good.
      After a few minutes (10min) of running and driving it around, the old sympotoms started to come back BUT the car would NOT foul out plugs this time.

      The engine still bogs down during acceleration.
      If you feather, I mean really feather, the throttle during acceleration the rev's will build to 4,500.
      This was far better than was before.

      Installed a new set of Bosch Platinum single tipped plugs gaped to 0.032 to see if they would help.
      Did not see much difference in performance.

      Also changed out an idle control valve (ICV) with a used ICV. The original ICV seemed to be better so put that back on. Thought that it is not letting enough air into the engine.

      Had a throttle positions sensor (TPS) from a used car and put that on.
      Again, not any difference.

      Pulled the plugs after 30 mins of running on the street. The plugs had soot built up on them.

      We cleaned them up (blow torch) and put them back in.

      Adjusted the screw on the air box for lean / rich adjustment. Counterclockwise = lean.
      We only adjust a few turns at a time.
      The car would start to run a little worse then better.
      A little all over the place. Hard to control.

      We also confirmed the timing was OK. O/T mark on crank with engine lower cover with and the cam with line on the cylinder head.

      Cleaned distributor rotor and connections.

      Took the car out after and still having issues with car accelerating under load.

      We tried to run with the brake booster line off to simulate a huge vaccum leak and get more air to not make it run so rich. Did not work.


      Going to try the injectors as suggested and adjusting the screw on the AFM to make a big difference, not just 1 or 2 turns.

      Does anybody think there is something else we can try?

      Appreciate the help.

      Best,
      T

      Comment


        #4
        I think your timing is off. If the car ran fine before the timing change then you had better go back and look at it again. The thing that would indicate this, is that all 6 plugs are bad after just a few minutes. If it was just one or two, then valves and injectors might be the source. The cold start injector would not foul plugs in ten minutes and the computer should compensate for that anyway if the o2 sensor is good.

        Also wondering why you have such a low compression number on one cylinder if you put new rings in?
        The difference between porcupines and BMWs is that porcupines have the pricks on the outside!

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks wodcutr - I thought that we did the timing correct. The O/T line on the crank pulley lines up with the line on the lower engine cover. Then the cam line lines up with the line on the cylinder head.
          Spun it around 720 and the lines still line up with each other.

          We did get it to rev to 4,500 rpm in 1st gear but still ran rough.

          If we were to put the belt on 1 tooth advanced or retarded - would that bend valves?

          Comment


            #6
            I don't know if one tooth off timing would bend valves or not, but you also might want to check your crank sensor to see if that was installed properly. I can't remember if the E motor has a crank sensor or not, but it will really run crappy if at all if it is bad or installed wrong. Also check to make sure that your plug wires are going to the proper plugs.
            Last edited by wodcutr; 09-27-2009, 09:01 AM. Reason: Added something
            The difference between porcupines and BMWs is that porcupines have the pricks on the outside!

            Comment


              #7
              I am fighting this same battle on an E as well. The car will not hold idle. Running way rich and sounding like a high degree cam is in the car. After say 1000 rpm the car seems to run ok. I am off to buy new plugs in a few because I know they are crapped out by all the fuel dump. I have checked everything except the ICV but unfortunately there are none around I can swap out with.

              Edit, checked the ICV by hooking it to a 12v to see if valve would close and open. Works. I noticed that the TPS does not make a clicking sound when moving the butterfly. Also I was thinking with the E there is a Idle Control module thats located in the glove box. Its green if I recall. The BMW fix was to zip tie around it. I will have to check this in a few.

              Just some food for thought.
              Last edited by Vedubin01; 09-27-2009, 03:13 PM.
              Build your own dreams, or someone else will hire you to build theirs!

              Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.

              Comment


                #8
                Just an update for you guys after our race.

                We spent a solid 3 days trying to figure it out.
                Here's what we did.
                - New plugs
                - New wires
                - New cap and rotor
                - Changed O2 sensor
                - Removed all the baffling in catalytic converter.

                After we did this, the car would run GREAT during cold start, warm up and when it was at operating temperature.
                We could drive the car for hours and it ran well.

                AS soon as we turned it off and started it up right after we shut it down, the car would
                run horrible. Running rich, throttle hesitation, fouling plugs.

                Our fix to this was to get another thermostat ECU temperature sensor and run it in ambient air. Put it right under the intake manifold.
                So we had 2 thermo sensors - one as a plug in the thermostat housing and the other reading ambient temperature all the time.

                It ran great after this....still just a touch bit rich, but dramatically better than before.

                We made it through the race with only a water pump failure and the alternator belt coming off. Pretty good for a 22 year old car.

                We have about a year to fix and figure out the problem, but might be in harness or ECU.
                When we do find it, I'll put something up.

                Thanks for the help R3V

                Comment


                  #9
                  You should take the hood off, and hook up a fuel pressure guage, so you can watch it while driving.
                  Supatek -noun - your basic know it all

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You did the timing belt and were RIGHT THERE, and you didnt replace the water pump!?

                    Im having an issue sorta similar to yours, and I think its the cold start injector stuck open. Im gonna pinch off the fuel supply hose and run the car and see

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hi guys,
                      Hate to bring this up again. I am having the exact issue you have described, what solved it in the end?

                      Thanks
                      sigpicAre you sure i was speeding?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        We never did find out what was causing our issues.

                        To get by and make it run, we wired in a potientiometer to the ECU coolant sensor and set it to ~3,000 ohms. The car still ran rich but did not foul out plugs and lasted a couple of races. We ended up switching to the 2.5L i motor and no longer have the 2.7L e motor.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I just bought a 325e with the same exact problem and as far as I can tell there's NO answer anywhere for this..

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I now have this problem wow 86 ETA

                            Comment


                              #15
                              This is an old but very familiar thread ,I am having very similar issues since I bought my car one year ago ,I have done all of these things listed above and the car runs rich and fouls plugs and gets 10 mpg. THe car is an 86 ES ,add my name to the list .

                              Comment

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