Am I insane? Thoughts on E30 total restoration. PLEASE HELP.

[BHT2109]

Greetings! Newb here; don't even own an E30 (YET!).


I need your thoughts regarding a near-total E30 restoration. The goal is to start with a “shell”, replace/repair all major systems, and end up with a vehicle that - in many respects - can be considered “new”. I realize that this is the goal of many restorations, but I actually want to make it happen.

Please refer to restoration outline below.

What I need from the E30 community is general advice and opinions, and to basically answer these three questions:

1. Has anyone successfully attempted what I’m planning to do (below)? What were your experiences? Are you happy with the results?

2. I want to basically end up with a 325iS. Can the work outlined below be installed on a 318 or 325e shell? What special considerations would I need to address in upgrading a 318 shell, for instance?

3. Once completed, could I consider this a “new” E30? Will I be able to crank out 300,000 miles from my work? (Let’s assume that I daily-drive it very conservatively: 15,000mi/year, all fluids religiously changed, garaged, no snow, all scheduled preventative maintenance performed, etc). Basically, it’d be an oft-used garage queen. I would want this car to outlast me (never to be sold).



RESTORATION OUTLINE

Budget: $15,000

Rebuilt M20B25 (325i) Engine: $3,500 (complete top and bottom teardown; includes labor)
Rebuilt Getrag 260 Transmission: $1,700 (complete teardown; includes labor)
Remanufactured driveshaft: $500
Suspension Rebuild Kit: $1,363 (shocks/springs, end links, bushings, etc)
Control Arms: $200
Limited Slip Diff: $1,400 (purchase used + parts & rebuild/installation labor)
Brake Overhaul Kit: $480 (4 discs, caliper rebuilds, pads, steel brake lines, etc)
Flex disc kit: $82
Tires: $320
Fuel pump: $142
Timing belt/Water Pump kit: $375
Ignition kit: $316 (distributor, rotor, wires, coil, plugs)
Alternator: $130
Oxygen sensor: $160
Radiator: $220
Steering rack overhaul: $500 (rebuilt rack, gaskets, boots, etc)
Belts, filters, hoses, bushings, etc: $500

Stipulations:

-This budget leaves about $3000-$4000 breathing room to buy an E30 “shell” with no rust, a halfway decent interior, and functional electronics. Exterior aesthetics are unimportant as long as the chassis is sound overall. Worryingly, this $3-4000 buffer must also include unforeseen labor costs.

-I will attempt to use the best quality parts that I can afford. Parts & kits would be sourced from Pelican Parts, BavAuto, etc.

-I would hope to perform much of the work myself to save labor expenditures. Work I would definitely outsource: Engine and tranny rebuilds, some brake work, and new diff rebuild/installation.

-I realize this outline is not total. It ignores electrics, shifter linkage, and exhaust (for starters). Plus, there are always little gremlins lurking about (Idle control valve, anyone?). I will obviously have to factor these issues into the “shell” purchase.


So whatta ya think?

Thanks for your input...

[rturbo 930]

First, when you say "total restoration" I assume you mean a bare chassis, bare metal resto. Otherwise, it's not really a total restoration.

And no, $15,000 isn't enough. Double that, possibly triple, depending on how much you do yourself and what you can use vs what needs to be replaced.

[Rontgen]

General rule of thumb is to add up the costs and time beforehand, as you've done.


Then double the cost and triple the time.

[BHT2109]

rturbo: No plans for frame-up at this time. As I wrote in the bottom, I realize it's not TOTAL; perhaps "thorough" would be a more appropriate term :)

As for $15,000 not being enough, would you mind elaborating? Since I'm basically replacing the entire drivetrain/suspension/brakes/etc with "new" parts, what am I missing? Are you saying that I should anticipate $20-30,000 worth of unknown x-factors?

Thanks for the feedback guys!! Keep 'em coming!

[rturbo 930]

As for $15,000 not being enough, would you mind elaborating? Since I'm basically replacing the entire drivetrain/suspension/brakes/etc with "new" parts, what am I missing? Are you saying that I should anticipate $20-30,000 worth of unknown x-factors?

Are you doing the work? Do you have experience? If you can do it, you may be able to do it all for maybe 25k, since it's not a total resto. Or who knows, maybe you'll come in under budget. But I doubt it. It's never, ever as simple as just buying some parts and installing them.

Check these builds out:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=366843

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=251334

[Rontgen]

The total cost is going to be influenced greatly by the starting condition of the car. Do yourself a favor and find a clean, rust-free body with good paint and you'll save thousands. Body work and paint can easily become a financial black hole.

If you want an is, I say buy an is. They aren't so rare that you need to spend the $$ trying to turn an e into an is. The is will also include a limited slip, so that'll save some $.

Be patient and be ready with cash in had to scoop up a good deal on a clean E30. I recently did just that on a $2500 1990 325is. It ran, but not well and had great paint and no rust. I've pulled the motor and transmission and am doing a fairly comprehensive rebuild of the car. Granted, I'm doing all of the labor but I should be in the $5-6K total investment range when it's done. It won't be a show car, but it'll be really clean and mechanically reliable.

Good luck!

[StereoInstaller1]

General rule of thumb is to add up the costs and time beforehand, as you've done.


Then double the cost and triple the time.

/thread

[jeffnhiscars]

The total cost is going to be influenced greatly by the starting condition of the car. Do yourself a favor and find a clean, rust-free body with good paint and you'll save thousands. Body work and paint can easily become a financial black hole.

If you want an is, I say buy an is. They aren't so rare that you need to spend the $$ trying to turn an e into an is. The is will also include a limited slip, so that'll save some $.

Be patient and be ready with cash in had to scoop up a good deal on a clean E30. I recently did just that on a $2500 1990 325is. It ran, but not well and had great paint and no rust. I've pulled the motor and transmission and am doing a fairly comprehensive rebuild of the car. Granted, I'm doing all of the labor but I should be in the $5-6K total investment range when it's done. It won't be a show car, but it'll be really clean and mechanically reliable.

Good luck!

This is VERY sound advice...from a noob no less :D

[PKile]

I am about ready to re-implant the engine and trans in my 92 325iC. The car was purchased in April with a great interior, decent laguna green repaint, and no discernible rust, but had 233,000 miles of mechanical neglect and previous owner stupidity. The major jobs I've done are as follows...

Fully rebuilt and balanced engine with full valve job
Rebuilt BMW tranny (original howled 1st -3rd gears)
New control arms and bushings
New strut inserts
New tie rod ends and rack boots
New steering column u-joint
Replaced front crossmember (original swaybar broken off)
New full exhaust with cat
New oil cooler and lines
New flywheel and clutch
New clutch master and slave and flex line
New gas tank with all new fuel and vent lines
New front brake pads
Front caliper rebuild kits
Stainless braided brake lines all around
Reconditioned driveshaft
New 15" Euroweaves and Dunlop Direzzas
Hella BiFocals and Cibie H1 high beams
New A/C condenser, dryer, and flex lines
CD43 head unit
Along with all that came a truckload of new hoses, hardware, clips, fasteners, and trim bits., not to mention new fluids, filters, sealants, lubricants, manuals and special tools to accomplish all the tasks, and a 1,700 buck machine shop bill.

If I subtract out $6,000 for the car purchase and DMV pound of flesh, that leaves a grand total of $17,000, not counting my labor (this is my retirement hobby, you understand). Judge for yourself if I am insane...

[88BlackS-ETA]

Insane, no. Enough money, only if you do all the labor yourself (except engine and tranny rebuild). Any M20 can go for ever if you do the maintenance on it correctly. I pretty much did a 'frame up' resto and it took a long time and wasnt fun. They only thing I didnt do was remove the undercoating or the engine wiring harness. Total coast: not adding it up because I dont want to know.

Stripped straight down to metal does take a long time (I know from experience). So like you and others said, get a straight shell with good paint.

[jeffnhiscars]

I am about ready to re-implant the engine and trans in my 92 325iC. The car was purchased in April with a great interior, decent laguna green repaint, and no discernible rust, but had 233,000 miles of mechanical neglect and previous owner stupidity. The major jobs I've done are as follows...

Fully rebuilt and balanced engine with full valve job
Rebuilt BMW tranny (original howled 1st -3rd gears)
New control arms and bushings
New strut inserts
New tie rod ends and rack boots
New steering column u-joint
Replaced front crossmember (original swaybar broken off)
New full exhaust with cat
New oil cooler and lines
New flywheel and clutch
New clutch master and slave and flex line
New gas tank with all new fuel and vent lines
New front brake pads
Front caliper rebuild kits
Stainless braided brake lines all around
Reconditioned driveshaft
New 15" Euroweaves and Dunlop Direzzas
Hella BiFocals and Cibie H1 high beams
New A/C condenser, dryer, and flex lines
CD43 head unit
Along with all that came a truckload of new hoses, hardware, clips, fasteners, and trim bits., not to mention new fluids, filters, sealants, lubricants, manuals and special tools to accomplish all the tasks, and a 1,700 buck machine shop bill.

If I subtract out $6,000 for the car purchase and DMV pound of flesh, that leaves a grand total of $17,000, not counting my labor (this is my retirement hobby, you understand). Judge for yourself if I am insane...

You forgot to mention your shiny new seat shocks...but if you factor in the savings from all the lattes, tequila and cocaine you didn't do because you were busy fixing your car, you came out ahead....and yes, of course you are insane...just like the rest of us :)

[Todd Black 88]

You are only insane if you total up the amount you spent on it.


I did a spread sheet on my M3 refurb, and got about half way through the stack of receipts and accidently hit the total button.

I looked at it for about 30 seconds and then deleted the file. I don't want to know.

[ThatOneEuroE30]

Im 20k+ in my "total" restoration and i still don't have a interior

[PKile]

I don't mind knowing the total, but God help me if my wife stumbles on the information!

[PKile]

You forgot to mention your shiny new seat shocks...but if you factor in the savings from all the lattes, tequila and cocaine you didn't do because you were busy fixing your car, you came out ahead....and yes, of course you are insane...just like the rest of us :)

You got that right, Jeff! Speaking of vices (other than my 5" Wilton) my wife knows I'm not boozing or catting around because she always can find me in one of 3 places...my garage, the local Pick and Pull, or the parts counter at BMW!