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    ETA No Warm Start

    Alice stared acting up recently. Mornings she starts and runs flawlessly. Once at OT a quick stop doesn't seem to matter, but after a 20-30 mi use cool down she absolutely refuses to start. Sounds like she almost catches...wants to...but won't.

    I do think she's flooding so I disabled the cold start valve, since it shouldn't fire when the engine is warm.

    I'd have said points if she had any and since it's clearly temp related my research points to the CTS. I took a series's of resistance readings as she cooled down and the changes seemed linear. Notwithstanding, I threw in a new CTS which made no difference.

    So stone cold and quick stops fom OT...perfect..modest stops and a total no start.

    Thoughts ?
    Seat Shocks....I have passed the baton to John Christy from Ninestitch. Email John or Garrett at ninestitch1@gmail.com

    https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...86#post4944786
    Alice the Time Capsule
    http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=360504
    87 Zinno Cabrio barn find 98k and still smells like a barn. Build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...20#post3455220

    #2
    Try this...after 20-30 min cool down, disconnect the negative cable from the battery. Let the car sit for another 10 min, re-connect the cable, and try to start the car. If the car starts then I suspect that the DME is not quite normal.

    Comment


      #3
      It does have a chip so who knows. Next time it won't start we will try that. Thanks for the suggestion
      Seat Shocks....I have passed the baton to John Christy from Ninestitch. Email John or Garrett at ninestitch1@gmail.com

      https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...86#post4944786
      Alice the Time Capsule
      http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=360504
      87 Zinno Cabrio barn find 98k and still smells like a barn. Build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...20#post3455220

      Comment


        #4
        Hmm I've had similar issues when there is excessive oil blow-by when the plugs get coated with oil and it hinders their firing. The heat of the engine sometimes promotes increased blow-by. However, it would usually start after cranking it for a little.

        Best way to check is to recreate the initial conditions (drive it for a little), then before turning it on again, pull a few plugs and check for any oil or residue on them.

        Another possibility is a bad o2 or injector that has given incorrect warm-start enrichment.

        If this issue happened recently, and the car has been chipped for a while, I would doubt it would have to do with the chip itself. Were there any other recent changes to the car?

        Comment


          #5
          No changes at all other than oil and filter.
          Seat Shocks....I have passed the baton to John Christy from Ninestitch. Email John or Garrett at ninestitch1@gmail.com

          https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...86#post4944786
          Alice the Time Capsule
          http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=360504
          87 Zinno Cabrio barn find 98k and still smells like a barn. Build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...20#post3455220

          Comment


            #6
            Next time it wont start, Pull the vacuum hose from the FPR to intake. Squirt a little starting fluid into the intake. This will let you know if it's fuel or spark.

            Comment


              #7
              Let me amend my "no changes" comments. We did run out of gas recently and did replace the trans oil cooler hoses.

              I don't see how eithe of those would cause a temp related issue
              Seat Shocks....I have passed the baton to John Christy from Ninestitch. Email John or Garrett at ninestitch1@gmail.com

              https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...86#post4944786
              Alice the Time Capsule
              http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=360504
              87 Zinno Cabrio barn find 98k and still smells like a barn. Build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...20#post3455220

              Comment


                #8
                After taking her for a run to full OT I let her sit until she wouldn't start. Disconnected the ground and left her for a while and then she started right up. ive never seen an ecu reset "cure" a no start but this sure points a finger at the potential source.

                Will see how she behaves moving forward

                Follow up...after another 20 min it started but just barely so I'm ruling out the ecu at least for now. My theory is that it is one or more leaky injectors. Stone cold it starts cause there's no residual fuel pressure. After 20-30 hot minutes it will start cause enough fuel hasn't leaked out to cause a problem in a warm engine. Any longer and it's too flooded to start until all the residual fuel pressure has bled down and the excess fuel has evaporated off.

                I'll check the plugs next time it doesn't start and report back and get a fuel pressure gauge to track the pressure
                Last edited by jeffnhiscars; 06-03-2017, 10:31 AM.
                Seat Shocks....I have passed the baton to John Christy from Ninestitch. Email John or Garrett at ninestitch1@gmail.com

                https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...86#post4944786
                Alice the Time Capsule
                http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=360504
                87 Zinno Cabrio barn find 98k and still smells like a barn. Build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...20#post3455220

                Comment


                  #9
                  Could also be a bad FPR-- perhaps the vacuum line has been blocked or clogged or stuck in some way

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I had a similar issue just changed injectors and it went away. Don't know what specifically was wrong with them as apparently they weren't leaking ( had them checked). I borrowed a used set from another car ford falcon to diagnose the issue then bought a new set
                    89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                    new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by squidmaster View Post
                      Could also be a bad FPR-- perhaps the vacuum line has been blocked or clogged or stuck in some way
                      I would think that would effect running all the time and can't imagine why it would only effect warm restarts and not hot or cold.

                      Originally posted by digger View Post
                      I had a similar issue just changed injectors and it went away. Don't know what specifically was wrong with them as apparently they weren't leaking ( had them checked). I borrowed a used set from another car ford falcon to diagnose the issue then bought a new set
                      I am inclined to think it's injectors but since I'm on the verge of doing the 731 head and motronic upgrade I'm not sure if it's worth tracking down a set of eta injectors (or any other eta specific parts). I may however, just do the motronic swap to see if that fixes it, before I pull the head. I'll have to think on this
                      Seat Shocks....I have passed the baton to John Christy from Ninestitch. Email John or Garrett at ninestitch1@gmail.com

                      https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...86#post4944786
                      Alice the Time Capsule
                      http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=360504
                      87 Zinno Cabrio barn find 98k and still smells like a barn. Build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...20#post3455220

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Did you give starting fluid a shot?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by e30sh View Post
                          Did you give starting fluid a shot?
                          I don't keep ether on hand and there are other checks to do before I get any. My thoughts being that if ether makes it start I have a no/low fuel problem. If it doesn't start I either have no spark or too much fuel. Removing the plugs to check for fouling and spark should pretty much tell me the same thing. I'm also going to check fuel pressure next.
                          Seat Shocks....I have passed the baton to John Christy from Ninestitch. Email John or Garrett at ninestitch1@gmail.com

                          https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...86#post4944786
                          Alice the Time Capsule
                          http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=360504
                          87 Zinno Cabrio barn find 98k and still smells like a barn. Build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...20#post3455220

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The e30 fpr adjusts fuel pressure with manifold vacuum. If the diaphragm is damaged or hindered, it could lead to the loss of fuel pressure you described. While running the O2 may be able to correct fueling just enough for it to work, but on startup the lack of pressure probably just can't compensate, or it's tossing way too much fuel in. just an idea from an issue I've seen before

                            Sent from my Robin using Tapatalk

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by squidmaster View Post
                              The e30 fpr adjusts fuel pressure with manifold vacuum. If the diaphragm is damaged or hindered, it could lead to the loss of fuel pressure you described. While running the O2 may be able to correct fueling just enough for it to work, but on startup the lack of pressure probably just can't compensate, or it's tossing way too much fuel in. just an idea from an issue I've seen before

                              Sent from my Robin using Tapatalk
                              What could cause the fpr to perform well when hot or cold and not when warm ? I will check fuel pressure but am having trouble seeing how these symptoms can be tied to vacuum.

                              Remember this is not a constant problem which rules out or limits a number of potential causes.
                              Seat Shocks....I have passed the baton to John Christy from Ninestitch. Email John or Garrett at ninestitch1@gmail.com

                              https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...86#post4944786
                              Alice the Time Capsule
                              http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=360504
                              87 Zinno Cabrio barn find 98k and still smells like a barn. Build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...20#post3455220

                              Comment

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