Q: braking technique

[alexbaby88]

When approaching a corner on a race track, am I supposed to only use my brakes to slow down or use the brakes in tandem with engine braking as I shift down the gears?

Which is the correct method?

[Tom944]

Brake before the corner and use the doubleclutch method when downshifting. Don't use clutchrelease for extra breaking or you will end up on the side of the track.

When you don't know the doubleclutch method, try to learn it and when you don't want to, brake hard and release your clutch gently.

[ddavidv]

Brake, downshift, turn.
The easiest way to remember is, brake pads cost far less than transmission parts. :D

[Borat]

Don't use clutchrelease for extra breaking or you will end up on the side of the track.

QFT

[cheades]

Also, your brakes work much better than your engine at slowing you down.

[Lance Racing]

When you do downshift, do it towards the end of the braking zone, when the car's speed is slower. This will lower the chance of over-revving the engine if you miss a shift.

[track6]

There is some really good information about this topic in "Going Faster". It's a book written more or less by Skip Barber.

The short answer is use your brakes,, use them hard, and use them always! The more correct "instructor" answer is it depends. On a lot of things - how fast are you going, how fast do you need to be going to sucessfully navigate the corner on the correct line, how tight is the corner, etc.

If you're travelling at 85 at the end of a straight into a sweeper that your car can take at 75, simply lifting & letting the engine slow the car is sufficient. If at the end of that same straight you need to be doing 20 to make the corner, you better be threshold braking right up to turn in & forget about using the engine to slow you at all. Add to that the mentioned possibility of letting the clutch out without matching engine revs to wheel/trans speed & you'll be off track in a hurry.

So you really need to work backwards - how fast can your car take the corner and how much slower is that than your speed just before turn in. Once you know that, you'll know how much speed you need to lose. Then you can decide if it will take 3 seconds of threshold braking or just a slight lift before turn-in.

Tim

[AlarmedBread]

generally its reccomended to only downshift once, not blip down the gears as you brake like you see race drivers do alot (i think this is what you were asking?)...you're alot more likely to mis a shift doing slamming down the gearbox, alot of the time, going 5th to 2nd instead of 4th, which is never a good thing!

heel toe if you're comfortable doing so while keeping pedal pressure, if not, just release the clutch SLOWLY as you reach the end of the braking zone, just before turn in, while you're easing off the brakes, you should still be in a straight line at this point just like any other time you're downshifting

i've ridden with PCA club racers who don't heel toe at all, they get around the track quite quickly and safely ;)

this is a pretty good resource

http://turnfast.com/

[Propwash]

Hmmmm, I dunno if I agree with most of that. "Going faster" is one of the best sources for learning to double clutch downshift. I have several tequniques depending on the car. In a sequential trans car, i dont even use the clutch anymore because i've become very proficient at matching gears under threshold braking. In an e30, the best would be to do a single clutch downshift with a higher blip than normal. Shift every gear because it easier to miss your gear or get confused if you skip gears, engine braking isn'nt so much to slow you down as it is to help balance the car upon turn in. generaly you should get your braking done before you turn-in, but some corners require "trail braking", braking past turn-in. There are even some turns where you will brake in the middle of the turn, maybe not with the brakes, but with engine braking.
I suggest buying "Going Faster", to everyone here that does'nt have it already. I have been racing since I was 10 and have been at a pro level for 5 years. I re-read that book all the time, it helps you keep things you want to practice at the front of your mind.

Sorry fir that long post.

[joshh]

If you're truly using all the braking power of the car you don't need to use the downshift and wont be able to. The tires have 100% traction, if you use 97% of that traction to stop with the brakes in a straight line what happens when you use the motor to slow the car even more....you end up off track.
Brakes are for braking. The motor is for going. At least 99% of the time.

[Axxe]

When I need to shave a lot of speed, I brake hard and heel toe down through the gears till I reach what I need. It's second nature now.

[Propwash]

If you're truly using all the braking power of the car you don't need to use the downshift and wont be able to. The tires have 100% traction, if you use 97% of that traction to stop with the brakes in a straight line what happens when you use the motor to slow the car even more....you end up off track.
Brakes are for braking. The motor is for going. At least 99% of the time.

Wrong. The rear brakes don't do near as much braking as the front, they can be used to get just that little bit of extra, but if you are losing speed fast enough and downshifting at the same rate, than they won't provide any additional braking therefore not upsetting the car and sending you to the weeds. Downshifting is so you don't have a big rpm jump when you let the clutch out after skipping 2 gears. Its alot harder to match a 2 gear downshift than a single, thats what will send you off the track. Skipping gears is NOT faster despite what "all the club guys do" or say.

[MikeE30325i]

in my 'downshifting' topic there is a lot of info on downshifting and the pros and cons of it. it is apparently ok to downshift, as long as you do it correctly. and if you put the tranny into the wrong gear, and you have been driving more than 2 days then i feel sorry for you. 4th gear is only in one spot.....

[joshh]

Wrong. The rear brakes don't do near as much braking as the front, they can be used to get just that little bit of extra, but if you are losing speed fast enough and downshifting at the same rate, than they won't provide any additional braking therefore not upsetting the car and sending you to the weeds. Downshifting is so you don't have a big rpm jump when you let the clutch out after skipping 2 gears. Its alot harder to match a 2 gear downshift than a single, thats what will send you off the track. Skipping gears is NOT faster despite what "all the club guys do" or say.

Actually no it's not wrong.
What do the rear brakes have to do with what I said?
It's not hard at all to match a skipped gear at all once you get used to it. Theres more than one way to skin a cat.

[Propwash]

It's not that it's "ok" to downshift. Its correct to downshift, downshifting is not really to slow down, its to avoid upsetting the car. Its funny alot of guys still think the brakes are only to slow the car down. The brakes can be used to "set" the car, to rotate it, or any number of things.