E30 325i vs E46 M3

[silversleeper]

Okay, before you start flaming, I'm not talking about a speed comparison, but rather cornering ability. I find that in complete stock form, I am able to hang with my buddy's E46 M3. Now, this could just be a "driver" thing, but he is rather well experienced with his car. Then again, I tend to push my vehicles to the limit.

Me:
89 325i, stock suspension, matching tires up front, one generic tire rear-right, one snow tire rear-left. (It's bad, I know)

Him:
04 M3 cabrio, H&R Race springs, 19" Kinesis wheels with 275 rubber in the back.

We both hit this one exit ramp entering at about 40mph, and are able to to push to 50mph through the turn. He doesn't think he can take it faster than that, and I feel it's the limit for my car in it's current state.


Now, my thinking is that if my car can "hang" with an E46 M3 while I'm stock, will I annihilate them when I get my coilovers installed along with new wheels and grippy tires?

[JGood]

LOL

I'm sorry man, that's as nice as I can be about it. Let me put it this way:

The e30's suspension was designed in, what, 1983? OK. So we have a semi-trailing arm rear suspension, a uni-body that flexes like jell-o, and the list goes on. All of this on mismatched tires, one of which is a SNOW TIRE!.

So then we have an e46 M3, currently BMW's best offering in handling performance. Over 50 years of research and development put into BMW's top performance coupe. ON AFTERMARKET SUSPENSION AND TIRES.

Not only could this e46 hold a MUCH higher steady cornering force, but it would absolutely destroy your car in any type of switchback, slalom, etc..

[MikeE30325i]

yeah.. and no.

you would get raped.

[backtrail69]

+1 I really enjoy my e30s, but there are MUCH better offerings for a good handling sport sedan in the last 20 years..

[JGood]

On another note, why does everyone think e30's are the best handling cars in the world? I mean, yeah, for under $5k they are good, but an e36 is much better in all situations, and e46's are better yet, etc... And that's just in BMW land.

e30's are FUN to drive at the limit, not the fastest.

[silversleeper]

Well, I'm basically wondering if anyone has had track experience with their modded e30s vs e46 m3s.

[Jean]

Maybe your buddy in the e46 m3 isn't that good of a driver at all, or is too afraid to push the car harder. Especially since you are on stock suspension and not even on good tires....

From first hand experience I can only compare my on ramp/off ramp exit speeds between my modded e30 on rt615s and my daily. But the two cars are completely different in every category you can think of, in the awd a4 on 235 dunlop sport maxx with factory sport suspension I can normally push it close to 60ish on the exit ramp where a posted limit is about 25 or 30 iirc. Taking the same off ramp in my e30 I can get to the same speed but not any faster, but I am still learning the car. I feel safer doing that in the a4 as I have way more seat time in it than in the e30. Now, e46 m3 "should" be even faster than my loaded/heavy a4 (200hp vs 333hp, stock vs aftermarket suspension, manual vs auto) imho.

"all of this on a track with no other cars around of course"

[Dibo718]

So he has better springs, better tires and a much wider stance which in turn is better for cornering(less body roll) are you sure he wasnt toying with you? I love e46's all of them and i also love e30's but any e46 should be able to out-perform a stock e30 beside maybe the e30 M3. The only thing he really doesnt have going for him was his tire size, 19" is a whole lot more of rotational mass than your 14 or 15 inch wheels, might of slowed him down a bit...but i doubt it.

[silversleeper]

or is too afraid to push the car harder.

I'm really banking on this, and I know the car can outperform mine, but my question is by how much?

But also, how does a track prepared e30 compare to a e46 m3?

[ivo316]

I think the E46 had a sensible driver who did not want to wreck his car, and the E30 had a psycho on a snow tire triying to make a point ;)

My E30 handles great, it's RWD, it will outhandle most FWD if you are willing to risk it, also there are lots of legends out there that handle like shit (Porsche 911), which might make you overrate your E30, but M3's handle great, I've driven both and I estimate 20% higher cornering speed from an M3 given the same driver.

[JGood]

This isn't a debatable topic.

The suspension geometry on the e46 M3 creates the ability for much higher maximum cornering ability, given tire and driver variables are equal. Now, tires make a HUGE difference. The driver can also make or break the deal.

If you don't understand how ridiculous your original question in, you shouldn't be driving like that on the street. Go to a performance driving school. You'll find out your car is a $2k, 80's family sedan and nothing more. It's a good car, but that's about it. The e46 M3 is a great car.

You can build an e30 to perform well, but the e46 will still be superior, given equal tires and driver.

Why do you want coilovers? What do you think you will gain? Unless you plan on corner weighting the car and choosing your own spring rates, a static drop will give the same performance increase (not much for maximum g's, btw, that's where tires make a big difference).

[equate975]

I have yet to find a car that handles better than mine. But then again I have never driven an e46 or anything cool like that :(

[amdspitfire]

dude its the magic grip of the snow tire

[silversleeper]

You can build an e30 to perform well, but the e46 will still be superior, given equal tires and driver.

You are misreading my posts... I want to know how much greater an M3 is in comparison to a well modified E30. I don't know how that performance would be measured, so I want to know if anyone with a track e30 has gone toe to toe with the all mighty M and how well it fared against it.

And to answer your question, I mainly went with coilovers so that I could slam my bitch and throw some sportmax wheels on it and pull one of these

[JGood]

You are misreading my posts... I want to know how much greater an M3 is in comparison to a well modified E30. I don't know how that performance would be measured, so I want to know if anyone with a track e30 has gone toe to toe with the all mighty M and how well it fared against it.

I've never been in a track environment against an e46 M3 with my e30, but with H&R race springs, Bilstein sports, and V710 r-comps on my 87 325is, I know I would be moving out of the way and waving him by as long as he is a decent driver on r-comps. With him on street tires, maybe, but that's just not a fair or practical comparison. With both on street tires, same deal, I'd be seeing tail lights for a few seconds before he says goodbye.

Just because you lower a stock car and put bigger swaybars on it or whatever doesn't create a better suspension design then a new high performance motorsport car. And that is what makes the better handling car. The roll center, camber gain, bump steer, and rear trailing arm design are all superior on the e46 and cannot be corrected on an e30.