Ground Control responds: "Camber Plates: Vorshlag vs GC"

[Hellabad]

Introduction: My name is Jay Morris, and I am the owner of Ground Control Suspension in Northern California. Although I own an e30, and am a longtime BMW fan, I have not been a regular visitor to R3Vlimited.com. Therefore, I was disappointed to hear about a thread comparing Ground Control Camber/Caster plates with Vorschlag camber plates. I was especially surprised to see that certain people seemed to get a “heads-up” about a thread being started, but I was unfortunately left out of the loop and was unaware until a few days ago.

This situation of owning an e30, designing parts for e30, but not being a regular on R3V leaves me now in a position where I am forced to defend our company by posting the actual truth.

On 4/09/2008, "SR20Fastback" posted a question “Camber Plates: Vorshlag vs GC”. Within 19 minutes, “erik325i” responded. I will address this specific post sentence by sentence, and you can decide what is the truth and what is not the truth, but I cannot explain why every R3Ver reading the thread was intentionally lied to.

I have both…. -Erik

So far so good! Here is guy who has one of each, he should know exactly what the differences are. And he answered right away!

They have a lower stack height than GC -Erik

Not true.

which provides more shock travel. -Erik

Um. Not true again

Vorshlag uses three welded on studs that mount up through the strut tower to mount, where the GC plates just use some nut/bolts to mount them. -Erik

Not true for the third time. WTF?


GC made the first e30 Camber/Caster plates around 1993. These were the first camber plates (for ANY car) that also had a caster adjustment. The caster adjustment did require reaching up under the car, but to be honest we were so happy just to make it work we left it at that. After all, how often do you adjust camber compared to caster?

Sometime around 2004 we made a bracket that was then included with all e30 camber/caster plates. Erik’s M3 that was bought with plates already on it must have been from 1993-2004 , before we created the bracket. So is that too bad for him you say? No, actually since 2005 we have had an item on our website, where you get a FREE set of brackets to retrofit. Many e30 owners, from all forums, can vouch that this item has been on there for many years.

Click here to see the price for the e30 bracket at GC online store

The other camber plate brackets are just a thinner, weaker copy of the FREE GC brackets that have been available for years.

This makes mounting/adjusting the GC plates a pain in the ass because you have to reach up in the fenderwell with a wrench every time you want to tighten or loosen one of the bolts. -Erik

We know –why- it was difficult to adjust caster, as rarely as is done, and that why we added the free item. It is bad enough that some people would rather hate, and leave themselves out of something good happening. (free stuff)

But here is the worst part. Think about it. If SR20Fastback bought Vorschalg plates based on the story presented by Erik, then he has a suspension with less suspension travel, less camber adjustment and less caster adjustment. If he has Bilsteins, he will also need a propane torch to undo the loctite on the strut shaft everytime he needs to work on the suspension, plus he paid more.

In conclusion, my fellow R3Vers, THAT is why the truth is important.

Thanks for the bandwidth. Jay

[lowlightbw]

bop.

[kronus]

Bam.

Owned by truth?

[Hellabad]

Before anybody digs up any of the old arguments, the pictures above compare the two exact items that were being argued. One camber plate vs. the older GC Camber/Caster plate. The pictures are a direct rebuttal of the thread discussed.

Ground Control is now using a new Camber Caster plate for the e30, that uses a proven 3/4 inch bearing from Aurora. This is the same bearing used on our spece30 plate, and is specifically manufactured by Aurora to GC specs. This is not an off the shelf bearing.

The new plate still has more suspension travel than other designs, AND slides under the sheetmetal for full camber and caster adjustment.

We also have rally camber plates for e30 that are pretty cool.

GC is not a supporting vendor, so I am not going to turn this into "For Sale' thread.

But I will, as soon as the admins answer any of my PM or emails fom the last week or so. C'mon guys, check your inbox!


Jay

[Jean]

Hey Jay,

I am looking forward to the new camber plate design (currently have your "current" design" plates on my e30.

thanks

[robweenerpi]

Jay you forgot to mention all the spring perch options for your camber plates....

[Hellabad]

Jay you forgot to mention all the spring perch options for your camber plates....

Um. We are not a supporting vendor. I think its sleazy when a company 'innocently' posts multiple pics of their products, while pretending to help someone with an e30 (or any car).

*cough*

*cough*


Jay

[rwh11385]

Sometime around 2004 we made a bracket that was then included with all e30 camber/caster plates. Erik’s M3 that was bought with plates already on it must have been from 1993-2005 , before we created the bracket. So is that too bad for him you say? No, actually since 2005 we have had an item on our website, where you get a FREE set of brackets to retrofit. Many e30 owners, from all forums, can vouch that this item has been on there for many years.

Click here to see the price for the e30 bracket at GC online store

Sweet. I have plates circa ~2002-2003 and have the GC's off to change springs and replace the needle bearings... so perfect timing.

thanks!

Walter from Valley helped take care of me and GC shipped my parts out to me Monday (w/ M3 tabs too). Now time to go and get the free update too.

[Hellabad]

Sweet. I have plates circa ~2002-2003 and have the GC's off to change springs and replace the needle bearings... so perfect timing.

thanks!

Walter from Valley helped take care of me and GC shipped my parts out to me Monday (w/ M3 tabs too). Now time to go and get the free update too.

Check with Walter first, I just gave him a set of brackets for somebody. This was at the same time that he was picking up some needle bearings, so he might already have them.


Jay

[ZM Blue Devil]

I like how you are handling this, thanks for the write up.

[BeirBrennerE30]

i bought camber plates/coilovers with konis/ rsm's circa 2001 from you?

what do i need to retrofit the latest and greatest from GC? I didnt know you had added that camber plate bracket!

Love the plates by the way!

[Erick]

A local customer (when I worked at KO Performance) told me about managing to crack one of the camber plates.

The most striking part of the story was the great service that you guys had to replace that damaged part at no cost to him. Very hard to see nowadays and I applaud the effort.

He's a board member, so if he wants to come forward and further explain it, I'll let him step up.

And that's my contribution to this thread.

- Erick

[DSP74]

Um. We are not a supporting vendor. I think its sleazy when a company 'innocently' posts multiple pics of their products, while pretending to help someone with an e30 (or any car).

*cough*

*cough*


Jay

Agreed with you here man. A good friend has had to deal with such things. If you want to pull that shit you buck up and pay the price.....Which he does......And it pays off for him..........


Jay you have pretty good G/C following in the E30 market it seems. If you got the time and money might be worth it to go ahead and join as a supporting vendor

[Hellabad]

If you got the time and money might be worth it to go ahead and join as a supporting vendor

way ahead of you.......

[Danny]

Good man!