Help! Won't start after timing job

bstarr3 · 06-17-2012, 07:10 AM

Some background: I've been having some overheating problems. After ten to fifteen minutes of running it would start to nudge over half then eventually keep heating up. Twice last week it got to between 3/4 and red line and was there for a few minutes (maybe 5) before I could get off the road.

I needed a timing refresh anyway so I planned to replace water pump and thermostat in the hopes that one of those was the cause of my problem. So I just finished that job and now I cant get it to start.

Description of symptoms: when I try to start I can hear to starter, it sounds like its trying to turn over, then an abrupt 'clunk' and a visible jolt in the engine.

I've given up for tonight, but I need to make sure that plugs and coils are all plugged back in in the proper order. I can turn the crank by hand, which I hope means that its not hydro locked, which is the number one thing I'm afraid of given the history of overheating.

Any other ideas of what could be causing this problem? Steps I could have done wrong or missed in reassembling the engine? Simple solutions, like a sensor wire or something?

Please help. Thanks

bstarr3 · 06-17-2012, 07:17 AM

Edit: I've confirmed that the plug wires are properly routed. Same thing.

Here's a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RNU...e_gdata_player

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2

JTapper · 06-17-2012, 07:25 AM

The video is set to private.

bstarr3 · 06-17-2012, 08:09 AM

Fixed. Can't seem to get it to embed in the post. But the link works now. Thanks for any help, and Happy Father's Day to you dads!

bstarr3 · 06-17-2012, 10:46 AM

My next thought was that maybe I have the timing way off. As far as my limited understanding goes, everything looks right. Pictures:
Cylinder 1 can lobes pointing upward and towards each other

Cam sprocket arrows pointing up perpendicular to edge of timing case

Cam 'blocks' square with each other and parallel to edge of timing case

Harmonic balanced lined up with arrow on oil filter housing

Flywheel locked at tdc

Note on this last part: the tool doesn't really slide in to any hole but it catches at this point which corresponds to tdc according to all the other measures.

Does this all look right?

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2

Dj Buttchug · 06-17-2012, 01:07 PM

the crank is wrong. thats not tdc

Dj Buttchug · 06-17-2012, 01:14 PM

this is correct crank position

hope and pray to the m42 gods that you didnt bend valves..

bmwman91 · 06-17-2012, 01:23 PM

Yup, the little arrow on the filter housing needs to point to the "notched" damper wheel tooth. It's hard to see on a dirty motor. Keep your fingers crossed that things are still in proper order!

blackhawkimpact · 06-17-2012, 01:23 PM

Looks like you're way off

bstarr3 · 06-17-2012, 01:58 PM

Okay, shit. What is the proper way to align it correctly, assuming I haven't bent valves? I want to mitigate the damage at this point and get it back running.

How will I know if I've bent a valve? Will it not start, or just make a god awful noise?

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bmwman91 · 06-17-2012, 03:03 PM

If valves are bent, it will run really poorly, and probably give some backfiring. I am not sure how you got the crank damper to look misaligned if you had the pin in the flywheel, unless you have had the flywheel off, the alignment sleeve was missing and bolted it back on in the wrong orientation.

Did you forget to remove the flywheel lock pin when starting it?

bstarr3 · 06-17-2012, 03:39 PM

I took the flywheel lock out before starting it. Maybe I didn't have the flywheel locked properly when I locked the cams? I'm going to turn the crank until its lined up tdc and see if the flywheel lock works there. Then I'll move the cams to match?

Also if the valves are bent is running it long enough to pull it onto a truck going to destroy it?

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2

Dj Buttchug · 06-17-2012, 03:44 PM

no the op said that the lock pin wasnt sliding into the specific hole. it was just catching on something??

That big clunk you heard was probably valves kissing pistons. You cant really mitigate anything, the damage is already done if there was contact. The only thing I might bank on would be the fact that cranking a piston up into some valves could be less destructive than burning air fuel mix and forcing one into valvetrain.

I dont think you could have had the flywheel locked in that position at all. Theres no way it would line up. I think the op just made a mistake on where the timing mark actually is on the HB??

M3 Ryan · 06-17-2012, 04:14 PM

If you cranked it like that then the valves may be bent. I had an m42 last week that broke a guide and skipped timing 2 teeth and it bent all the intake valves. Had to remove the head and replace the valves and chain/guides. Not a cheap job. You might have had a bad head gasket anyway if it was overheating before.

bstarr3 · 06-17-2012, 05:55 PM

I don't know. The flywheel tool only comes close to engaging at the spot I pictured in the third post.

When I take the crank bolt off the hb spins freely on the crank even though there's a notch on it that goes to a tab on the crank. That, to me, explains how the flywheel can be locked but the notch on the hb looks wrong

Btw when the hb is spinning on the crank the crank and cams arent turning

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2

06-17-2012, 07:10 AM	#1
bstarr3 Advanced Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Eugene, OR USA Posts: 153	Help! Won't start after timing job Some background: I've been having some overheating problems. After ten to fifteen minutes of running it would start to nudge over half then eventually keep heating up. Twice last week it got to between 3/4 and red line and was there for a few minutes (maybe 5) before I could get off the road. I needed a timing refresh anyway so I planned to replace water pump and thermostat in the hopes that one of those was the cause of my problem. So I just finished that job and now I cant get it to start. Description of symptoms: when I try to start I can hear to starter, it sounds like its trying to turn over, then an abrupt 'clunk' and a visible jolt in the engine. I've given up for tonight, but I need to make sure that plugs and coils are all plugged back in in the proper order. I can turn the crank by hand, which I hope means that its not hydro locked, which is the number one thing I'm afraid of given the history of overheating. Any other ideas of what could be causing this problem? Steps I could have done wrong or missed in reassembling the engine? Simple solutions, like a sensor wire or something? Please help. Thanks

06-17-2012, 07:25 AM	#3
JTapper E30 Modder Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Rosemount, MN Posts: 824	The video is set to private. __________________ Turbo Cabrio project: http://eurowerks.org/showthread.php?t=19677

06-17-2012, 01:07 PM	#6
Dj Buttchug R3V Elite Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 4,936	the crank is wrong. thats not tdc __________________

06-17-2012, 01:14 PM	#7
Dj Buttchug R3V Elite Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 4,936	this is correct crank position hope and pray to the m42 gods that you didnt bend valves.. __________________

06-17-2012, 01:23 PM	#8
bmwman91 Mod Crazy Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: CA Bay Area Posts: 639	Yup, the little arrow on the filter housing needs to point to the "notched" damper wheel tooth. It's hard to see on a dirty motor. Keep your fingers crossed that things are still in proper order! __________________

06-17-2012, 07:17 AM	#2
bstarr3 Advanced Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Eugene, OR USA Posts: 153	Edit: I've confirmed that the plug wires are properly routed. Same thing. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RNU...e_gdata_player Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2

06-17-2012, 08:09 AM	#4
bstarr3 Advanced Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Eugene, OR USA Posts: 153	Fixed. Can't seem to get it to embed in the post. But the link works now. Thanks for any help, and Happy Father's Day to you dads!

06-17-2012, 10:46 AM	#5
bstarr3 Advanced Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Eugene, OR USA Posts: 153	My next thought was that maybe I have the timing way off. As far as my limited understanding goes, everything looks right. Pictures: Cylinder 1 can lobes pointing upward and towards each other Cam sprocket arrows pointing up perpendicular to edge of timing case Cam 'blocks' square with each other and parallel to edge of timing case Harmonic balanced lined up with arrow on oil filter housing Flywheel locked at tdc Note on this last part: the tool doesn't really slide in to any hole but it catches at this point which corresponds to tdc according to all the other measures. Does this all look right? Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2

06-17-2012, 01:23 PM	#9
blackhawkimpact R3VLimited Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Southern California Cars: 318is (s50), S2000 Posts: 2,231	Looks like you're way off __________________ Adopt A Rat Mention my username at checkout to receive a discount

06-17-2012, 01:58 PM	#10
bstarr3 Advanced Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Eugene, OR USA Posts: 153	Okay, shit. What is the proper way to align it correctly, assuming I haven't bent valves? I want to mitigate the damage at this point and get it back running. How will I know if I've bent a valve? Will it not start, or just make a god awful noise? Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2

06-17-2012, 03:03 PM	#11
bmwman91 Mod Crazy Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: CA Bay Area Posts: 639	If valves are bent, it will run really poorly, and probably give some backfiring. I am not sure how you got the crank damper to look misaligned if you had the pin in the flywheel, unless you have had the flywheel off, the alignment sleeve was missing and bolted it back on in the wrong orientation. Did you forget to remove the flywheel lock pin when starting it? __________________

06-17-2012, 03:39 PM	#12
bstarr3 Advanced Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Eugene, OR USA Posts: 153	I took the flywheel lock out before starting it. Maybe I didn't have the flywheel locked properly when I locked the cams? I'm going to turn the crank until its lined up tdc and see if the flywheel lock works there. Then I'll move the cams to match? Also if the valves are bent is running it long enough to pull it onto a truck going to destroy it? Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2

06-17-2012, 03:44 PM	#13
Dj Buttchug R3V Elite Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 4,936	no the op said that the lock pin wasnt sliding into the specific hole. it was just catching on something?? That big clunk you heard was probably valves kissing pistons. You cant really mitigate anything, the damage is already done if there was contact. The only thing I might bank on would be the fact that cranking a piston up into some valves could be less destructive than burning air fuel mix and forcing one into valvetrain. I dont think you could have had the flywheel locked in that position at all. Theres no way it would line up. I think the op just made a mistake on where the timing mark actually is on the HB?? __________________ Last edited by Dj Buttchug; 06-17-2012 at 03:52 PM..

06-17-2012, 04:14 PM	#14
M3 Ryan Site Sponsor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 2,052	If you cranked it like that then the valves may be bent. I had an m42 last week that broke a guide and skipped timing 2 teeth and it bent all the intake valves. Had to remove the head and replace the valves and chain/guides. Not a cheap job. You might have had a bad head gasket anyway if it was overheating before. __________________ Ryan G. MotorWorks '88 M3.2 S54 Lachssilber/Black '88 SuperETA Delphin/Tan '07 335i Alpine/Black Sedan '12 X5 3.5i Alpine/Black iS Splitters For Sale, PM ME! http://www.ryangmw.com

06-17-2012, 05:55 PM	#15
bstarr3 Advanced Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Eugene, OR USA Posts: 153	I don't know. The flywheel tool only comes close to engaging at the spot I pictured in the third post. When I take the crank bolt off the hb spins freely on the crank even though there's a notch on it that goes to a tab on the crank. That, to me, explains how the flywheel can be locked but the notch on the hb looks wrong Btw when the hb is spinning on the crank the crank and cams arent turning Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk 2