Standing Rock vs Dakota pipeline

[Wschnitz]

Considering ICE efficiency is about a third as efficient as charging an electric car and driving that, you should probably rethink that.

Fossil fuels were our way into the modern era, we have alternatives that are far better now, its short sighted to continue as it always has out of greed.

[mrsleeve]

^
Your smarter than that, you know we are at least 30 years and likely closer to 50 years away from those "better alternatives" being able to replace what we have now. You dont step on your dick, IE you dont give up what you with the hopes of what is coming will be better, until you know you have something better or at least equal to what you have currently. Simple universal rule of life.

Economic benefits for whom?

Ummmm ALL OF HUMANITY. (other than maybe fraction of the population that live within uncontacted tribes in the amazon or Boreno). You see its the petro industry that has allowed mankind to have a reliable, stable, portable, cheap nearly universal energy source, that has made most all of our modern lives possible. There is almost no part of our lives that is not impacted by or contain components that have something that is made from, or energy supplied by oil in them. Everything from food production, to the creation of green energy solutions rely on petroleum based products or energy sources. Everyone on the planet has befitted from the production of oil/NG and its not going away, it powers our transportation, it heats our homes and business, it cools them with power generated to run our ac units, it moves all of goods around the planet, its why we can can have this conversation and not live a subsistence only based agrarian life style. The industry in general across the planet, has paid trillions of dollars in taxes alone in the last 160 years since the Drake well in PA started it all, and Trillions in general economic positive activity since then around the globe

People like you totally discount how vastly intertwined the role petroleum has in your life and take this for granted, ignorance is bliss I suppose . Hell your Canadian, how would you heat your house in the winter time with out Natural gas, or fuel oil that is brought to you via pipelines, both High pressure transmission to get it to your general vicinity then lower presser distribution to you home for N/G and pipeline to tank farm for truck delivery for fuel oil. Also being Canadian much of your hallmark social programs are largely funded by your countries oil/gas/mineral production, so your benefiting from in even more ways you take as a given.

A few companies get paid for a year or two to build the pipeline. Some workers make big money. Then it's over. Pipeline stays there for decades with high risks of polluting land and rivers.

Yes tis true some people/companies sit a bit higher up and Benefit directly from the industry that provides service to the rest you, no diffent than medical componies, or the ag business, or anyone else involved with a product or service that is utilized by everyone else every day. Those pipelines pay taxes on that evil profit they make for shipping product, property taxes on the real-estate, to the tune of billions over the life span to all levels of govt from local to federal. There are a number of operations jobs that are permanent from ROW maintenance to pump/compressor station maintenance and operation. Sure there are accidents and there have been issues, as is such with anything and everything associate with every part of life. Accidents are rare and few between given the amount of product shipped though them globally on a daily basis, making our comfortable lives possible. Is there room for improvement sure there is, and with modern technology making more and more impact on the Pipeline industry things are getting better with the integrity work on older infrastructure.

Much of the time, a incident is very minimal and causes no long lasting issues to anything, as a reportable spill in the US is 15 gal's (IIRC) and that is if you have an auto shop, a construction shop, or a fucking pipeline....

It's all about short terms goal : making money.

DUHHHH thats the goal with all commerce, from hunter gathers 5k years ago trading furs for salt, or tools, to the small general contractors or corporate boardrooms of today. The idea is to get the most value for your time and product in any exchange you can, the other guy is doing the same. With in the modern era money makes that a little more universal with a known value to exchange and barter in. Profit (or warfare) is what has driven every advancement in human history, why would that suddenly change now???? :shrug:

Can't wait until Sleeve starts quoting Trump after he has exhausted his bank of quotes. ;-)

I dont need to quote an idiot to make your position look foolish

[Nesset]

I think the Tribes made the first mistake by not being more proactive when the planning phase for the pipeline was taking place, raising serious concerns and etc.

But at this point its gone way too far and both sides need to take a chill pill, Stop burning cars as protests, and stop using fire hoses on protesters during fuckin winter.

This is an insanely good point.

They were actually negotiating with the refineries at one point. They were totally fine with a pipeline in their land but obviously for a sum of money. But turned down the oil companies offers, and now they're pissed off that the companies are "going to go around" their land and not make any money out of it.

I think we should make it, I am all for supporting American industry and our workforce. There's a lot of people opposing it for all the wrong reasons sadly.

[naplesE30]

Do as I say, not as I do.

http://www.redstate.com/bradslager/2017/02/23/standing-rock-faces-environmental-crisis-environmentalists/

[mrsleeve]

Yup they have been hauling out semi load after semi load of refuse from that camp for a week or 2 now on the tax payers dime for the most part since its the corps dime hirring the contractors. All before spring melt washes all that shit and human waste into the river

[gwb72tii]

good reply to Lee sleeve

requiring everyone to live with high cost green energy is immoral. the way out of poverty, disease and contaminated water for the 3rd world starts with cheap, abundant energy. green energy is not it.

[mrsleeve]

Todays 3/20/17 DAPL news.

As of last night the bore under the lake is to full dimension and the pull of the pipe though has begun, and by now is likely close to pulled all the way though if it didnt get hung up .

In other news that you will likely never see reported, Seems that some inglorious water protectors took it upon them selves to take a cutting torch to a valve setting (above ground) somewhere in Iowa. Good thing it was not loaded other wise they would only do that 1 time. Source: I know the NDE crew dispatched to the repair, and are my helpers inlaws.

How is that anything like protecting water by cutting a hole in the fucking pipe to intentionally cause a what would amount to a very bad spill, (likely would not be noticed until line was fully loaded and noticed when it would not reach operating pressure)

[marshallnoise]

Todays 3/20/17 DAPL news.

As of last night the bore under the lake is to full dimension and the pull of the pipe though has begun, and by now is likely close to pulled all the way though if it didnt get hung up .

In other news that you will likely never see reported, Seems that some inglorious water protectors took it upon them selves to take a cutting torch to a valve setting (above ground) somewhere in Iowa. Good thing it was not loaded other wise they would only do that 1 time. Source: I know the NDE crew dispatched to the repair, and are my helpers inlaws.

How is that anything like protecting water by cutting a hole in the fucking pipe to intentionally cause a what would amount to a very bad spill, (likely would not be noticed until line was fully loaded and noticed when it would not reach operating pressure)

Machiavelli

[BraveUlysses]

Todays 3/20/17 DAPL news.

As of last night the bore under the lake is to full dimension and the pull of the pipe though has begun, and by now is likely close to pulled all the way though if it didnt get hung up .

In other news that you will likely never see reported, Seems that some inglorious water protectors took it upon them selves to take a cutting torch to a valve setting (above ground) somewhere in Iowa. Good thing it was not loaded other wise they would only do that 1 time. Source: I know the NDE crew dispatched to the repair, and are my helpers inlaws.

How is that anything like protecting water by cutting a hole in the fucking pipe to intentionally cause a what would amount to a very bad spill, (likely would not be noticed until line was fully loaded and noticed when it would not reach operating pressure)

false flag

[mrsleeve]

LOL How cute.

[mrsleeve]

wow it actually made the news.....

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/21/dakota-access-pipeline-vandalism-highlights-sabotage-risks.html

[marshallnoise]

wow it actually made the news.....

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/21...age-risks.html

As you said earlier, it is the most counter-intuitive action an environmentalist can do. It makes ZERO sense.

:puppy:

[decay]

wow it actually made the news.....

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/21...age-risks.html

when fox news says "vandalism", what they are actually talking about is "direct action".

it doesn't make zero sense if you understand that the action taken is preventative of the greater environmental harm that could result from the pipeline entering operation.

[mrsleeve]

Wow...................... so you are defending this action then?

It's not just foxes head line it's the A.P., CNN, HuffPo etc.... they all ran basiclly the same story

Um your right, it's not vandalism, it's willful and intentional destruction of property. That if went unnoticed before they loaded the line, could have cost people their lives. Either accidentally in a wrong place/wrong time situation, or in trying shut it down. And cost a few hundred million in clean ups. A victory at any cost is still a victory then I take it, ferdinand foch comes to mind

[marshallnoise]

Jihad!!!!!!