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Good thread on Budget LSx swaps

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    Good thread on Budget LSx swaps



    I made this writeup for another site after some guys were asking me questions and I figured it might do some new swappers some good on here:



    Alright, I had a handful of guys wanting more info on how to swap in an LS-series of engine on a limited budget. I do these conversions pretty much for a living and will try and help shed some light on installing one of these in about anything on the lowest budget possible. Dependability, great power output, mileage and the cool factor all can come at a very reasonable price if you are willing to work a little for it.

    First off a little about the engines I will be referring to. In my world I refer to either the 4.8, 5.3, 5.7 or 6.0 engines as LS1 as they share the same platform and most parts with the actual 5.7 aluminum RPO LS1 engines. I rarely do ACTUAL LS1 swaps and here is why. The two main advantages a Camaro/ Firebird/ Corvette LS1 have over a truck 5.3 for example are that the aluminum block weighs 65lbs less and they usually make around 10 horsepower more. These two factors do not warrant the big difference in price to me. There have been dyno tests were 5.3s were swapped in place of 5.7s and with all parts the same (intake, etc) they usually made 9-10 horsepower less. This is obviously NOT a large difference. I'm not bashing a true LS1 by any means, but the 5.3s can usually be bought for 1/3 to 1/4 of the price, so I tend to use them.

    That said.....

    With some digging around, you can usually pickup a complete 5.3 for anywhere between $250-$550. The way I usually get them is top to bottom, with truck intake/ rails/ injectors/ coils. They usually do NOT have starters, alternators, power steering, etc. This is just the way I get them. I have bought 18 of them this way.

    The next biggest expense is usually the harness, which you have different options. Either harness can be made to work, be it from a truck or a LS-car harness (Camaro, Firebird) The biggest differences are that the trucks use a different injector plug type than the cars and the truck harnesses lay out differently. I try to avoid the truck harnesses as much as possible due to the odd layout, they are harder to make look nice and they are wired a little more complexly than the car ones (more keyed power sources) Here is where you have to decide what direction you are going to go, plan on leaving the less attractive truck intake (still make good power) or switch to the car style intake/ rails/ injectors to make it look more like an actual LS1. A stock harness usually will run around $150-200 dollars and you will then have to spend 3-4 hours cutting it apart/ figuring out the wires that won't be needed for your application and removing them and finding the wires you will need to connect to make your swap run. This is not a very difficult task, but it does require some patience and a good source of info, such as:

    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...swap-faqs.html

    This would be the cheaper route to go if you are somewhat confident in wiring, the other route would be to buy an aftermarket or already converted harness. I have previously reconfigured all factory harnesses for my swaps but am now going to try an ebay vendor that sells all new harnesses in the $350 dollar range. These are made with the correct length wires to place the ECM better and layout more pleasing to the eyes. It would take a lot of work to modify every wire on an older harness to make it layout as nicely as one of the custom built from scratch harnesses.

    The next item to consider is what transmission you plan on running. The LS engines will work with any older GM trans with some considerations. TH350s/ 700R4s/ TH400s work by using a GM part as a flexplate spacer and bolts to place the flexplate at the proper spacing, and this part provides a place for the converter snout to engage, using the original converter. The thing to consider is the downshift/ TV cables associated need to be addressed. Companies like Bowtie overdrives, etc have pieces to make them work. Obviously the 6-speeds/ 4l60Es designed to be behind the LS-engines work easily with the proper harnesses if your budget allows.

    Next would be the fuel system. The easiest way to do this would be to use an inline Walbro pump sold all over the net, usually around $120 and the corvette filter-regulator combo. There are many options here depending on yor vehicle as far as getting the fuel to the pump. You can pull your factory sending unit and find a way to mount the pump to the sender and install in tank, or maybe even an aftermarket vendor makes a sending unit for your application to do just that. Other options including welding a sump to the bottom of the tank and feeding from there. Next would be installing a fuel cell or even an aftermarket tank designed for EFI use in your application. Some even just mount the pump and pull fuel through the factory pickup. This is usually okay for lower horsepower (stock swaps) and certain pumps, as some don't like pulling fuel very much and might not last forever. After the pump, you feed the corvette filter/ regulator which then has an output that you run to the fuel rail and it also has an output for return fuel back to the tank which just needs plumbed into the top of the tank. The truck intake and fuel rails includes a regulator so you can just run a line up to it and a line back from it returning unused fuel to the tank.

    The only other variable here is what accessories you need to run on your engine. Of course there are vendors out there like March, Kwik Performance etc that sell complete accessories setups that are nice, but pricey, which doesn't fit into this budget writeup. I usually am doing hotrod style swaps that often only include an alternator. These are fairly simple, I usually use GM CS-style alternators, found in TBI/ TPI style 4.3-5.0-5.7 engines. These are pretty affordable, work well and are easily replaceable in case of failure. Making mounts out of simple metal (3/16s bar stock-3/8ths round stock) doesn't take too much skill. Just mount the alternator out of everythings way in your swap and most times you can even route the belt to use the factory tensioner. I have done many this way and even some with power steering and used the factory tensioner with perfect results. None ever took more than two hours to figure out. For the non creative types the easiest way to do this is to hold a straightedge across the balancer and hold the alternator up to it in a good spot and find a way to tack a bracket in place to hold it temporarily and then build some easy brackets (I love using the round bar) to mount it, it doesnt even need to adjust if you use the factory tensioner. Of course using factory LS1 brackets/ accessories is always a possibility if they fit your application and are available for use. The thing to keep in mind is that the truck/F-body/Corvette all use different accessory spacing in regards to the distance from the pulley to the block, the trucks stick out the furthest, the F-body is in about 5/8 from that and the vette is in a little more. The total difference between all three is around an inch I believe, but it is enough to make obvious bracket issues if trying to mix and match parts.



    Well if you are still with me I am going to make a few lists with pricing for a few different situations.


    First would be low budget, this would include a 5.3 engine swap, leaving the truck intake and using for this example a TH400 trans that was already in the vehicle.

    5.3 Engine $350
    Stock truck harness $150
    Add on fuse panel for harness $40
    ECM $40
    Conversion mounts $50
    Gm Trans adapter/ bolts $50
    New starter $80
    GM CS alternator-junkyard $25
    walbro fuel pump $120
    Maf sensor - used -ebay $40
    New O2 sensors $120
    radiator hoses $20
    Fuel lines/ fittings $100
    Computer reflash $150
    Exhaust work/ O2 bungs $100

    Total $1435

    This would be the bare minimum swap into a vehicle. For example I just did a swap like this into a 69 Chevy truck. This has no hood clearance issues for the taller intake, standard truck manifolds that came with the engine fit the chassis in this application. The trucks stock radiator worked excellent as the LS-engines run pretty cool anyhow. The truck had existing electric fans like many vehicles out there already may have.

    This swap would have been for the more do-it-yourself kinda guy as it used a stock harness requiring the modifications to make it work.



    Now, take that same swap and add the car intake/ rails/ injectors and use an aftermarket harness which is already done, wires in with only a few connections and looks much nicer.

    Previous price $1435
    LS1 intake $80
    LS1 rails $50
    LS1 injectors $40
    aftermarket harness (ebay) $350
    credit back -truck harness -$150
    credit back - fuse panel -$40

    Total $1765
    Mtech1 v8 build thread - https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=413205



    OEM v8 manual chip or dme - https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho....php?p=4938827

    #2
    wow. that makes me kind of want to run a 5.3 now..

    anyone want an m30 swap?
    My feedback:
    http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=186328

    http://e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74911

    Instagram:
    @gears_n_glory

    @functionmotorsports

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by bataangpinoy View Post
      wow. that makes me kind of want to run a 5.3 now..

      anyone want an m30 swap?
      make up your mind.
      Originally posted by LJ851
      I programmed my oven to turn off when my pizza was done, should i start a build thread?

      Feedback

      Comment


        #4
        God Bless America. Check out the e39 swap on Bimmerforums. Actually lighter than the stock 540i and makes alot more tq/hp, way cheaper and CanBus is working.

        Comment


          #5
          1. this should be stickied....
          2. dont forget if you go with the car intake/etc, you may recoup some cost by selling the other stuff...
          3. Also, this budget does not include cost of mounts/conversions for power steering and brake boosters should you want to keep that, but we now have complete mounting/conversion kits available, and I'd imagine vorshlag will have something after not too long as well.

          Comment


            #6
            Good write-up. A few other points:

            The LSx engines all share the same outer block surfaces and mounting points. The Camaro FEAD (Front Engine Accessory Drive) is the most compact and easiest to find. The waterpump sticks out too far, but an LS2/7 waterpump can be made to work with a CTS-V belt tensioner. Don't get a truck block -- cast iron block and the intake will not fit into an E30. Go for the aluminum 5.3, 5.7, 6.2 engines. The shift lever on a T56 from a Camaro/Firebird fits into the hole in the tunnel like BMW planned for it. You have to do a little tunnel hammering here and there. The BMW fuel pump is adequate for a DD.

            The stock 5.7 LS1 puts out about 340hp and 340lbft of torque. An Audi S4 has similiar hp, but less torque (and at much higher revs) and weighs 1000lbs more. Its great fun surprising them -- and other M3's! The LS1 has 300lbft of torque at 1800rpm

            Watch the "Two Guys Garage" segmant on a very high-end (like $30k or so) E30 M3 with a hopped-up LS3 for inspiration. Note that you can not avoid some work on the brake system -- a HydroBoost fits nicely and works great.
            E30-LS1 aka. 357is
            email us to pick up our LS1 swap guide
            E30-LS1 KITS now available!!
            E30LS1@gmail.com
            e30ls1.com

            Comment


              #7
              Whats different about the cast iron truck block vs the aluminum block that would cause a fitment issue? Aside from the additional weight of the cast iron block, I can't think of any other cons when considering the price difference. I understand the water pump clearance issue and truck intake not being an option both are beyond huge.

              Jean do/will you sell any of the items you mentioned? I am looking for a few key components, your estimated prices are better than I have found by a long shot.
              sigpic

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by garretvs View Post
                The stock 5.7 LS1 puts out about 340hp and 340lbft of torque.
                Even without added stickers?

                Closing SOON!
                "LAST CHANCE FOR G.A.S." DEAL IS ON NOW

                Luke AT germanaudiospecialties DOT com or text 425-761-6450, or for quickest answers, call me at the shop 360-669-0398

                Thanks for 10 years of fun!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Mako18 View Post
                  Whats different about the cast iron truck block vs the aluminum block that would cause a fitment issue? Aside from the additional weight of the cast iron block, I can't think of any other cons when considering the price difference. I understand the water pump clearance issue and truck intake not being an option both are beyond huge.

                  Jean do/will you sell any of the items you mentioned? I am looking for a few key components, your estimated prices are better than I have found by a long shot.

                  Not my stuff, check the link :)
                  Mtech1 v8 build thread - https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=413205



                  OEM v8 manual chip or dme - https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho....php?p=4938827

                  Comment


                    #10
                    still would like to know the block issue.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      #11
                      still expensive motors. :-o

                      Comment


                        #12
                        i'll read through more but for what it's worth to some, the 5.3 with a stock bottom end in an rx7 has gone 8's already... with a STOCK BOTTOM END 5.3....


                        also there are companies that make torque converters that bolt an ls1 up to a th350/th400 etc. i currently have one in my car. the 4l80e comes in the tahoes, suburbans etc is essentially a th400 with an overdrive and can be built to be very strong as well and bolts right up to the ls based motors.



                        also mako18 the blocks are the same as far as i remember and iron to aluminum won't have issues with clearance or mounting.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          the issue isn't with the block itself, it's with the intake parts that are taller with the truck/iron blocks. This is where you'll have the issue and need the 'maro/vette intake plenum and accessories...make sense?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by JoeyBones View Post
                            the issue isn't with the block itself, it's with the intake parts that are taller with the truck/iron blocks. This is where you'll have the issue and need the 'maro/vette intake plenum and accessories...make sense?

                            exactly, thankfully they are easily swappable.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Great that is what I thought! I guess I took it the other way. I knew better but sometimes you miss the little details and it can change everything.

                              Auto would be nice for daily but the e30 feels weird to me as a auto. Really I dream of a sequential box mounted to the lsx....$$$$$$ I am sure.
                              sigpic

                              Comment

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