Road race / AutoX classes to suit build?

[BLACKCHARM88]

You are going about this the wrong way if you are looking to be competitive in autocross or any kind of timed track racing. You need to get the rule books of any organization and find a class that will suit what you have in mind and then build the car around those rules. If you just build a car and then look to go racing(and be competitive) you are going to end up spending a lot more money going back a fixing/removing/changing things that are not legal.

Thanks for the infos...

[pantelones]

Right now I'm playing with my stock eta engine on narrow tires to get to know the car, but long term I want it to be really fast. Like 300-350 WHP ish fast.

To race a 300+ whp e30 you are talking 3-7k in motor alone, and an additional 10k in suspension, brakes, and safety equipment. Don't forget tires, fresh motor oil, (proper weight...) track entrance fee's, food, entertainment, and a place to sleep for the weekend...

Which race class(es) fit the BMW powered 11-12 sec quarter mile E30 range the best? Suspension is centered around IE Stage 3 springs + Koni SAs and I will try to run a square 245/45/16 tire setup or 225s up front if I don't have the heart to hack the fenders. Those unless someone suddenly decides there should be more 255-265/35/17s or 245-255/40/16s, or some sort of wide 15 that isn't more than an inch off in diameter. I would prefer to stay in something with street tires for financial reasons but might be down to run the 275/35/17 Hoosiers on it one day.

Thanks r3v

Science be praised, buy a damn Caterham and cut out the e30... Autocross is about as fun as second gear gets. Stick to road circuit racing and start off with a stock car, no mods whatsoever! Also, you NEED to at least be capable of getting all the licensing in GT4 or another racing simulator. The experience and little tricks that you learn with a simulator are irreplaceable on the race track. Just don't get into bad habits, or they will scare the shit out of you on a real race track.

[agent]

you NEED to at least be capable of getting all the licensing in GT4 or another racing simulator. The experience and little tricks that you learn with a simulator are irreplaceable on the race track. Just don't get into bad habits, or they will scare the shit out of you on a real race track.

I agree that a good simulator can teach track layouts and is good for practicing technique, but GT4 is NOT a simulator.

[whitebulat22]

Well I've played the snot out of GT4-6 on my wheel setup, so there's that. It taught me the whole Nurburgring which I love it for and helped me in numerous ways handling wise. My first chance to clutch kick my car for real nothing really surprised me because of those and other games. A touch of general feel can come from them alone.

It couldn't do too much to help me tune and refine a car as I'd hoped because of things like non adjustable tire pressure, unknown tire size, negative camber actually reduces your handling, every shock is the same with the same range of stiffnesses etc. but I'll agree that there's a nice amount to take away from a good game. It's creator uses it to practice for real races for a reason, I don't know how he can take the vacuum cleaner noise experience seriously enough but it works for him.

[Nsquared97]

Our BMW CCA club runs this scheme for class alignment. http://autocross.rmcbmwcca.org/Class.php

I'm actually really glad you posted this. My local BMWCCA chapter has a similar style points sytem (which I really like), but ours isn't as in depth/polished as this. Thanks for sharing!

I'll break this up and give you my input, but this is strictly autoX related, mainly from my experience in Stock/STX.

I'm curious about how much of a difference shocks will make in the lower and higher classes. I don't think I'd spend the money to be more competitive in any case but my knowledge must be wrong because I figured revalved Bilsteins or full hard Konis were already pushing the limits of how much stiffness can help a car. I went down a few of my local bone crusher roads, and in the hardest compressions I've hit in my IE stage 3 + Koni SA car it feels like it stomps the road, throws my passengers around and stays steady and planted. It doesn't roll around all too much, has a more direct controlled feel and I thought outside of lowering the car a bit more an uber hard setup wouldn't do much more for its grip.

As already mentioned, shocks definitely make a difference. There is just so much more to them than hard/soft. Keep in mind the name of the game suspension wise is keeping the car as planted as possible (thus making the best use of available tire grip), and shocks play a big part in that.

As far as the IE stage 3 springs, trust me that isn't stiff enough. Remember, the more grip you add to the car, the more weight transfer you get. Running all seasons on the street isn't going to get you much body roll, but good, wide street tires on a smooth clean surface definitely can. One thing to note, where your racing obviously plays a role in desired stiffness. AutoXing on a glass smooth airbase lets you run much stiffer rates than a broken up parking lot, where the car would just be bouncing and skipping all over the place.

With all of the things new cars do better I could understand handling being better with bigger tires and chassis refinements to suit them over many years. Same tire grip to work with I don't get how any refinement over an already decent if old chassis in the E30 can do more than make up that big of a weight and polar moment of inertia gap. At least not to the point where something like an E92 would be weaving through all of them in the twistys.

Again, this is from an autoX perspective. Biggest issue I see is the rear suspension not being able to put down power coming out of corners, like say an E36 can. That's huge when dodging cones. Another annoying handicap to deal with is the incredibly slow stock steering rack. You can swap it out in SM and prepared (?) but for Street, STX and DSP you have to keep the stock rack. You can change driving style to try an accomidate for it, but man does it suck. Also for classes where you aren't allowed to cut/flare fenders, tire fitment is an issue. E30's can't fit as much tire as a lot of cars they compete against.

I agree that a good simulator can teach track layouts and is good for practicing technique, but GT4 is NOT a simulator.

This. Forza taught me the line and got me familiar with Road America, but being on track there is entirely different.

Well I've played the snot out of GT4-6 on my wheel setup, so there's that. It taught me the whole Nurburgring which I love it for...

Not trying to be a prick, but have you actually been to the Nurburgring? If not, all you know is the GT's interprutation of the track, not necessarily the track itself.

[Eric]

Autocross is about as fun as second gear gets. Stick to road circuit racing and start off with a stock car, no mods whatsoever! Also, you NEED to at least be capable of getting all the licensing in GT4 or another racing simulator. The experience and little tricks that you learn with a simulator are irreplaceable on the race track. Just don't get into bad habits, or they will scare the shit out of you on a real race track.

I didn't like autocross when I was young dumb and full of cum either. I spent too much money on parts I thought were cool that put me in a class I was completely uncompetitive in on all season because I couldn't afford good tires (spent it all on "race" parts remember?).

A bit older and a bit wiser with a car built to the maximum of the class for the series I run in and Autocross is a blast.

You probably have long stopped reading Mr. pants, instead thinking of some smart-ass retort right now, but Autocross is great at teaching you skills that would be dangerous on a race track.
- understanding the adhesion limits of a car in aggressive maneuvering situations
- fast reaction inputs
- high eyes and moving quickly from one segment to another
- low speed throttle steering adjustments
- breaking threshold, lock-up limits.
- aggressive weight transfer control
- identifying the "line" quickly and maximizing the corner


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