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Old 09-03-2009, 07:18 PM   #1
flyboyx
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installing hydroboost on your e30

I have been working on an S52 swap for the last few months. as an alternative to using the standard modified e21/rabbit/944 booster that most everyone uses in their cars these days, i elected to go with an option that gives me more braking power. this info is also on a thread in the 24v swap section, but i was thinking more of you could take advantage of it here.

i know...you are probably asking why i would want to install this on my car. well...i ask you, why the hell not? i have already modified a rabbit booster that i am sure would work fine. i just want more braking power. i have hydroboost on my diesel f350 daily driver and i love the system. i expect i will love it just as much on my bimmer.

on the right side of this photo are the brakes i am using on the front of my car.


a few months back, i picked up the system from an old e24.



everything was fine and dandy until i installed the engine.



i think it would work out fine if the engine were something other than m/s5x. there is no way around the conflict with these parts. the good news is that i read a thread a while back that you can use the hydroboost system of a 7 series e23. this is what i found at the just yard this week. if you are going to add hydroboost to your e30 with a 24v swap, it is going to have to be the booster from the early 7 series. notice how about a third of the booster is actually inset behind the firewall. this will get you the relief you need to clear the throttle body. the e23 is at the top, the e24 is below.



also worth noting in the photo above: the upper booster has an extra fitting between the rear port and the pressure hose. this is a restriction for applications with abs brakes. there is a little orifice with approximately a 1/64" hole drilled through. if you have abs and you plan for them to work, you will need this part. it is listed in real oem and priced somewhere around 25 bucks from the stealership.

an added benefit to going with the hydraulic brake syst is that the diameter of the master cylinder is much larger than the one from the e30. e30 on the left, hydroboost mc on the right for comparison

here is a photo with the e23 booster installed. the intake boot and maf will pretty much fit with out conflict at this point. the rear orifice on the bottom of the intake boot has slight interference with the hydraulic line on the front of the master cylinder, but there won't be any issue connecting the hose.



i found a nice out the way place to mount the hydroboost reservoir. originally, i wanted to locate it on the driver side motor mounting bracket, but the top needs to be mounted above the brake booster. otherwise, the fluid could drain back and overflow.

the accumulator is going to be mounted below the booster on the driver side. i cut the mounting bracket off the e23 so it would be a little easiser to fabricate.

i went through the 20 or so power steering hoses that i have laying around in search of suitable ends for my project. using my angle grinder(with a thin cutting wheel), i ground off the metal swage collars and slid the ends out of the old hoses.

doing a little googling on line, i found http://www.discounthydraulichose.com they sell the R1 hydraulic hose needed for about a buck a foot. this is a 2500 psi hose. the working pressure of the system according to my bently manual is about 1400 psi max, so this hose will work nicely.



they also sell a crimp collar shell for about a buck each.



unfortunately, they don't sell banjo fittings. i talked to a salesman about it, but he said suitable suppliers are unavailable. i did a little searching and found a couple of aeroquip fittings in their catalog, but for most connections, you need some sort of elbow after the attachment. this is why i am reusing my old fittings. when the hydraulic parts arrive in the mail. i will just cut my hoses to length, assemble them and take them to my local hydraulic shop to get them crimped.

i have read a few threads on the forums with people complaining that the hydroboost system is unnecessarily complicated. i don't think so. you definitely have more hoses to run and you have to figure out how to locate the accumulator, but really, it isn't bad.

the reservoir has been mounted, it is a bit tight against the maf. i may move it a little later on.



here is a photo of the accumulator with the high pressure hose fittings mounted to it. that is the factory bracket from the e23 but turned upside down. on the hose fittings, i left part of the crimped collar where it attaches to the metal line because as you can see in the photo, those high pressure fittings don't have much of a barb on them. some of the newer fittings on the power steering pump don't have any barb at all. once i have the collars crimped on, i plan to put a couple of (tig) tack welds between this flange and the collar for good measure.



these are the fittings i came up with for the power steering rack and the ps pump



here is a photo of the e23 accumulator bracket with a notch ground out to fit the brace on the front strut tower. keep in mind that this will be welded to the frame up side down.



its a little hard to see in the crappy photo, but there is the up side down bracket welded low on the frame with the accumulator bolted on. the bracket is just below the bank of brake lines, just behind the motor mount bracket, and just in front of/and above the steering u-joint. the fuel lines and the carbon canister hose touch on the back side. there is about 2 or 3 inches of clearance to the master cylinder/hydro booster above(removed for clarity). the biggest reason for mounting it that low was that i felt i needed to stay away from the brake lines. i didn't want to weld on a bracket that had a cut out for those lines only to have the possibility of replacing one later.

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Old 03-11-2010, 06:03 PM   #2
BeirBrennerE30
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nice write up. What is the brake pedal feel after install?
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:27 PM   #3
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Nice write up!

How does the e28/e32/e34 hydrobooster setup compares in terms of size and hook up vs the e23/e24?
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:02 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeirBrennerE30 View Post
nice write up. What is the brake pedal feel after install?
the pedal actually feels firmer than with a vacuum operated booster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean View Post
Nice write up!

How does the e28/e32/e34 hydrobooster setup compares in terms of size and hook up vs the e23/e24?
to be honest jean, the e28 535i booster is the same as the e24. to my knowledge, that is the only e28 with hydroboost. i have not seen this system for e32 and 34's. i assumed they had the actuator arm with a vacuum booster mounted facing backward behind the driver side headlight. as you may have noticed in the photos, i have some extra parts laying around. if anyone needs them for a non 24v swapped car, let me know.
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:41 AM   #5
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I've seen some e32s with hydroboost, iirc 750 models. Good write-up!
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:47 AM   #6
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actually, now that i think about it, here is a little more information from my build thread to go with the info above.

i had the hydraulic hoses made for my hydroboost brake setup this week. here is a pic.



the 4 hoses at the top of the photo are the return lines between the reservior and the 4 components. they are r101 hydraulic hose. they had to come from a hydraulic shop because pep boys and autozone do not carry this stuff. you can see in a previous photo where my reservoir is located. assuming that you choose this same location, you can buy 2 feet of each hose and that will give you about an extra foot for the small one and about an extra 5 or 6 inches for the other three. the hose sizes are 1/4", 5/16", 1/2", and 5/8". the shop i picked up the hoses from only had blue for the 5/8"s so i intend to change it when i get the chance.

also in this photo, you can see what i did for the pressure lines. the upper one routes between the power steering rack and the side of the accumulator. the second pressure hose runs between the power steering pump and the larger orifice on the back of the accumulator. the lowest hose in the photo goes between the smaller orifice on the back of the accumulator and the rear orifice on the top of the hydro boost.





the pressure hose is 3/8". i purchased this and the shell couplings on line at discount hydraulics. the hose was about a buck a foot and the couplings were about a buck each. i purchased twelve feet of hose and twelve couplings in case i screwed something up. the pressure hose is R1 and rated to about 2300 psi. according to my bently manual, the power steering system pressure is about 1400 psi max, so this lends a nice cushion. the i cut the hoses to length and fit them to the fittings that were already installed in place. you will need to mark the hoses in relation to your fittings because you cannot allow them to rotate. once they are crimped, you will not be able to make any adjustment. as i mentioned above, i used an angle grinder with a thin cutoff wheel to cut the crimp off of the old fittings. now that all of the fittings have been re-crimped, i am going to tig weld the left over flange to the new crimped shell. there are two flare fittings that i had to cut off short to make them work for my application. since they didn't have a flange to weld to, i slid a 12mm metric nut over the tube. this nut will be welded to the tube and then in turn welded to the crimp. my local napa store makes hydraulic hose assemblies. i took my hoses down there and they crimped them for free. i just tipped the guy ten bucks. all together with all of the parts(new and used), i have less than 150.00 invested in my hydroboost system. this doesn't include the price of any welding, because i handled all of that myself.

a word of wisdom on scrounging used fittings: if you can't find the right flare fittings for your application, you can use the banjos for the three smaller orifices because the threads are the same. i was actually planing to use a banjo in a couple of places, but i found that i could just cut a metal line, stuff it in a hose and put a crimp on it. i think it is pretty important to weld the universal crimp shells to old fittings because you can't afford to have one of those suckers blow off when you are out on a drive a couple hundred miles from home. the old fitting have very little barb on them and the newer style have none at all.
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:20 PM   #7
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Forgive bringing back a thread from months ago but I'm thinking about doing this and had some questions... Could be useful for someone else down the road.

First let me say great write up but maybe I'm a little slow because I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I had read other threads referencing E32 conversions for the E30 but now that I think about it, I'm not sure if they were hydroboost or traditional vacuum.

Anyway you can list out the specific pieces that need to be purchased for this conversion? If you have banjo fitting sizes that'd help greatly also.

I'd also like to see a diagram of the entire hydraulic loop if possible (PS pump to rack to accumluator etc.)

While I normally don't mind taking something apart and fabricating whatever I need to make it work... this is my daily and I can't afford to have it out of commission for an extended (more than a day or two) period of time. So it'd help me out greatly if I could acquire all the needed parts beforehand and just install all at once instead of fiddling around with it for a couple weeks trying to make it work. I'm still running an M20 in my E30 but might do the 24v swap in the future... Getting the brake part out of the way is always a good thing while also increasing brake performance. I'm also running a Z3 rack if that makes any sort of difference.

I sent you a PM about this as well.
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:40 PM   #8
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^ +1
I just bought the hyrdroboost setup and I'm hoping to do this in the next few weeks and that info would be amazing.

Thanks
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Old 07-29-2010, 06:16 AM   #9
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^ +1
I just bought the hyrdroboost setup and I'm hoping to do this in the next few weeks and that info would be amazing.

Thanks
Did you get the E23 setup or E32?
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Old 07-29-2010, 06:20 AM   #10
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From an E23. Got super lucky when I found it in a junkyard last week.
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Old 08-04-2010, 05:44 PM   #11
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i think e23 is the way to go. i have not seen this system on any e32's but that isn't to say that they weren't available. i will try to come up with something for diagrams....i used real oem and just looked up the system there. when i get time, i will copy and paste do it will be all in one place. for the banjos, there are two sizes. i don't specifically know what they are but they are the same ones you have on your e30. the small one is pressure line and the large one is return.
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Old 08-16-2010, 08:04 AM   #12
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here are the e23 diagrams that real oem lists for an 85 733i. i picked that model and year randomly. any would be fine.
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88 325ix coupe manual diamondschwartz/natur
87 e30 m3 for parts lachsilber/cardinal(serial number 7)
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Old 08-16-2010, 08:06 AM   #13
flyboyx
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and the power steering loop:

for some reason, i was thinking that there was a third diagram that i used to put this in order. i will look for it and post if this is indeed the case.
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88 325ix coupe manual diamondschwartz/natur
87 e30 m3 for parts lachsilber/cardinal(serial number 7)
12 135i M sport cabrio grey/black

Last edited by flyboyx; 08-16-2010 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 09-26-2010, 06:52 PM   #14
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I'm also doing a hydro boost, so, many thanks for great write up.

I don't have t/b clearance issues as I went with itb's, but, would like much, much more room for a different intake manifold.

questions:

- you mentioned abs issues, i'm running a BBK with 25mm m/c from a 750iL and
wondring if to stick with that unit (no problems with abs), or use the eta 19/25 that came with h31 system?

- btw, could you pointout 3rd m/c port on my hydro setup ? ...

- Did you use the hydro pump, if so, with brackets it came with or with your oem brackets ?
- or did you use your oem p/s pump ?

- do you forsee any issues with e36 racks ?, I have one installed.

- as if not enough, my set up came with line splitters ???

enclosing a few pics prior to removal from donor., hope that can help you with relocating brackets.








Last edited by fporro; 09-26-2010 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 09-27-2010, 05:58 AM   #15
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wowee! you are good with the master cylinder and hyd booster in the photo above.

i didn't fool around with any of that stuff you have attached to the spaghetti of brake lines. throw all of that crap away. just screw your e30 brake lines into the master cylinder you have pictured above and you will be in good shape.

you are going to need an accumulator. that is the 4 inch round metal softball shaped component. all of your lines run through that. it is pictured in the last 2 photos you posted. i cut that bracket off the donor car and modified it to fit my e30. there are photos of this above.

i used the stock s52 hydraulic/power steering pump. you just have to pay attention to the pressure and return lines so they don't get mixed up when you transfer this system to your e30.

your top photo shows the abs restrictor so you are good there. also, i was running my setup with an e36 rack, so you should be fine there too.
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88 cabrio becoming alpina b6 3.5s transplanted s62
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88 325ix coupe manual lachsilber/cardinal
88 325ix coupe manual diamondschwartz/natur
87 e30 m3 for parts lachsilber/cardinal(serial number 7)
12 135i M sport cabrio grey/black

Last edited by flyboyx; 09-27-2010 at 06:05 AM.
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