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Old 11-20-2013, 11:48 PM   #16
marshallnoise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the imitator View Post
should overnight me a burrito in a small lunch box with ice packs in there.
Hotter the better though!
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Old 12-11-2013, 01:31 AM   #17
rob0r
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I've done this twice now.

E30 320i Touring:
M10 box
M10 flywheel
M10 paddle clutch
E30 320i prop
E30 320i gear linkage

E30 320i saloon
M10 box
S14 M3 flywheel
M20 Paddle clutch
E30 320i prop
E30 320i gear linkage

The S14 flywheel has the correct starter ring for the M30 and allows fitment of a bigger S14/M20 clutch, which still all fits under the M10 box. Just using the M10 fly and uprated paddle clutch I had some slip in the higher revs which is why I've gone for S14 setup this time.
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Old 12-11-2013, 06:52 AM   #18
marshallnoise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob0r View Post
I've done this twice now.

E30 320i Touring:
M10 box
M10 flywheel
M10 paddle clutch
E30 320i prop
E30 320i gear linkage

E30 320i saloon
M10 box
S14 M3 flywheel
M20 Paddle clutch
E30 320i prop
E30 320i gear linkage

The S14 flywheel has the correct starter ring for the M30 and allows fitment of a bigger S14/M20 clutch, which still all fits under the M10 box. Just using the M10 fly and uprated paddle clutch I had some slip in the higher revs which is why I've gone for S14 setup this time.
That is some great information here. I was looking into how to use the m20 pressure plate and clutch and the s14 flywheel was the only way to do it reasonably. The other option was to cut the ring gear off the m20 flywheel and put one on from an m10/m30.

Thanks for the great post man!

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Old 12-11-2013, 08:09 AM   #19
rob0r
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No problem. I only got the engine running properly and car driving with the 2nd setup last night and I can confirm that all seems good. I used the release bearing from the M20 clutch and the pedal seems OK.

Top left S14 M3, top right E28 M535i, bottom M20


As above, note the teeth pitch difference


S14 flywheel fitted up with the M20 paddle clutch
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:09 PM   #20
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Did some more research, just out of boredom really, and found a great thread on bimmerforums.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...8mm-m20-clutch

Basically the 228mm m10 flywheel with m20 clutch and pressure plate works just fine. There is some debate about throwout bearing, but someone also posted up a working combo. These guys are talking like support for 250 horsepower and 275lb of torque. Should be good enough for an NA m30.

Quote:
Hey fellas, I'm wondering if any 2002 guys have ever run the m20 pressure plate on an m10 228 flywheel? I'm just wondering if there is any difference (besides the m20 PP being cheaper)?

Metric Mechanic says that when you run a 228mm clutch with the Getrag 245 or G240 transmission (rather than the 4 speed), you have to run the 25mm throwout bearing, but they don't list the BMW part number. Everything else I've read says to use the e21 323i "525" TO bearing with this combo. When comparing it to the stock 320i TO bearing I found that the 320i bearing measures 25mm from clutch fork ears to bearing surface, while the 323i bearing measures 30mm.

e21 320i TO Bearing:
21 51 2 226 729 - 25mm

e21 323i TO Bearing:
21 51 1 204 525 - 30mm


Also interesting is that the 228mm flywheel (e30 m3 and I believe 2002 as well) is ~5mm taller than the 215mm flywheel, while the stack height of the 2002 228mm pressure plate is about 5mm shorter than that of the 215mm PP.

320i 215mm pressure plate height:
53.5mm (PP) + 25.8mm (flywheel) = 79.3mm total

2002 228mm pressure plate height:
47.7mm (PP) + 30.9mm (flywheel) = 78.6mm total

Here's pics of my parts (click the link), the 215mm setup I'm getting rid of and the 228mm setup I'm swapping to on the right (once I get a shipping damage issue resolve):

So, why on earth do you need to run the taller "525" throw out bearing when the overall stack height of the flywheel and pressure plate is almost identical? I measured almost a 10mm gap between the TO bearing and the PP fingers with the clutch fork fully depressed, which means I'm wasting that amount of slave cylinder travel with the short 320i TO bearing (on my "stock" 215mm setup).

Also, TEP told me that I was getting the Sachs sport pressure plate (Sachs # 88 3082 618) and that they would upgrade it even further for higher clamping pressure. They actually sent the stock 2002 pressure plate (PN 21 21 1 251 248) which costs $100 compared to the m20 pressure plate (PN 21 21 1 223 026) which costs $65. I'm not even sure they upgraded it but that is another question I will ask TEP. My question to the forum is, they look identical, what is the difference? Is the m20 pressure plate shorter? Does anyone know if one has a different clamping pressure?
Also, here is a setup that is verified to work from the same thread:
Quote:
Not sure of all the variations, but my combo, as advised/provided by Ireland Engineering, for my 320 overdrive 5-speed converted, performance-modded 2002 is:

BMW (Sachs) E30 M3 228mm Pressure plate -- superb clamping pressure, same as Sachs HD, with 'normal' clutch pedal feel.
BMW (Sachs) 228mm 2002tii clutch disk -- with the greater clamping pressure from the M3 PP holds solid up to 250whp, even though it has less copper than the Sachs HD clutch.
BMW 323i Throwout bearing -- to pair with 228 clutch. [if 215 clutch, then 320i TO bearing is used.]

Mated to a JB Racing lightweight aluminum flywheel.

A simply awesome combo...
For reference, m10 228mm flywheels are found on the following cars. And they are single mass flywheels.
  • 1968 - 73 2002 w/ M10 2.0L - 4 cyl.
  • 1972 - 74 2002tii w/ M10 2.0L - 4 cyl.
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:52 AM   #21
lukeADE335i
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I ran the e30 M3 clutch behind my setup with an M20 flywheel when I first did my swap. The M3 clutch and pressure plate were great behind the M30, no slip & good bite and pedal. Of course, the M20 ring gear died within a month, so I took that setup out and went with an uprated M10 215mm flywheel with uprated clutch as I couldn't get an affordable M10 228mm flywheel.

If you can get hold of the 228mm flywheel, the S14 clutch & pressure plate is a good option.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeADE335i View Post
I ran the e30 M3 clutch behind my setup with an M20 flywheel when I first did my swap. The M3 clutch and pressure plate were great behind the M30, no slip & good bite and pedal. Of course, the M20 ring gear died within a month, so I took that setup out and went with an uprated M10 215mm flywheel with uprated clutch as I couldn't get an affordable M10 228mm flywheel.

If you can get hold of the 228mm flywheel, the S14 clutch & pressure plate is a good option.
Ahhh, that was your story I read about. I have been on bmw2002faq trying to source that flywheel as I think that is the most cost effective solution for me.

I really like the idea of the smaller bellhousing of the 240 for fitment purposes.

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Old 01-09-2014, 07:16 PM   #23
lukeADE335i
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yeah - my efforts at using the 228mm clutch are well documented over on EUROCCA (which is probably where you saw the thread).

The 240 is good for removal and fitment - if you read my tread over there, then you would have seen that I removed the gearbox & swapped the flywheels & clutches with the engine still in the car, which is seemingly problematic with the G260. Some leave the top two bolts out to aid in gearbox removal, but this certainly isn't necessary with the G240.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:16 PM   #24
glnr13
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e34 clutch/flywheel/pressure plate mated up to 240 sounds plausible along with the e34 throwout bearing?
all items coming from 535i.

it's a 240mm though... anyone with experience using this setup?

edit:just reading your thread on eurocca. looks like someone is running e28 setup in his e34 so i know that combo works just hoping it slaps into the 240

Last edited by glnr13; 02-13-2014 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:29 PM   #25
marshallnoise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glnr13 View Post
e34 clutch/flywheel/pressure plate mated up to 240 sounds plausible using the e34 throwout bearing?
all items coming from 535i.

it's also a 228mm... anyone with experience using this setup?
I did a quick lookup and show the e34 m30 flywheel as being 240mm. I don't think it will work.

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Old 02-13-2014, 04:10 PM   #26
glnr13
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yeah, i was looking it up on realoem too. 12mm too big
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:15 PM   #27
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Get an e28 flywheel if you can, they're also lighter than the e34 setup.

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Old 02-13-2014, 04:52 PM   #28
lukeADE335i
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The 240mm clutch and pressure plate will not clear the Getrag 240 bell housing.
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:48 PM   #29
marshallnoise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeADE335i View Post
The 240mm clutch and pressure plate will not clear the Getrag 240 bell housing.
This is a totally blind question because I don't have my 240 out to see or a spare 240mm flywheel for that matter, but is clearancing the Getrag 240 bell out of the question for fitting a 240mm clutch setup?

/ignorant question

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Old 03-26-2014, 02:09 AM   #30
lukeADE335i
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The bell housing isn't deep enough to clear the 240mm pressure plate.

I have heard that the bell housing can be machined to clear it, but have not seen such a set up anywhere, either in person, or pics.
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