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Old 12-02-2016, 05:36 AM   #1
M-technik-3
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Standing Rock vs Dakota pipeline

Your thoughts on it? I'd like too see it rerouted around their drinking water source, but from what I have read the region is littered with these small tributaries

I can understand wanting to make more money but over the long run protecting clean drinking water should be a priority.
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Old 12-02-2016, 05:39 AM   #2
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I think they should go around. Its North dakota there isn't shit in that state. We are having same problem here in nebraska with the Keystone XL pipeline. It got postponed but is expected to start again since trump took over
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Old 12-02-2016, 06:28 AM   #3
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Lots of I know nothing about but I think they should reroute because of what the talking heads on the magic picture box, that don't anything about say that's what should happen. Itt......
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:54 AM   #4
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The proposed path of the pipeline is literally right next to an existing gas transmission line.
https://www.sayanythingblog.com/entr...-protest-area/
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Old 12-02-2016, 12:38 PM   #5
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Part of my point
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If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
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Old 12-02-2016, 01:50 PM   #6
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Because a natural gas pipeline just leaks, it doesn't pour pressurized crude oil into the water supply. A pipeline under the famous Yellowstone River in MT recently broke and leaked oil into the river for a long time before anyone even realized it. Killed all the fish for hundreds of miles. Closed the river to all fishing for months during the lucrative tourist guiding season. I haven't read about tests on local wells and water quality. A pipeline in the South recently broke and poured oil next to a major river for days before anyone reacted, filled up a huge basin with oil. Aren't there supposed to be leak sensors on these things?

Stuff breaks. Mistakes happen. Metal wears out.

This particular issue pissed me off enuf that I wrote to my Senators, one Congress-man, two Governors, and my state legislators, saying:

"It is time for someone prominent in government to stand up and do the right thing regarding this pipeline routing issue in ND.

By not stepping in with the Corps of Engineers and re-thinking this route, the federal government looks very bad in keeping it's promises to tiny minorities that apparently deserve no respect from the American public. This whole thing smacks of a Wounded Knee all over again - the army and riot troops surrounding Indians in the snow in the middle of nowhere, spraying them with water cannons, cutting off supplies? Really? Is that the imagery we want? We haven't learned anything from the past, including basic human fairness? I fully realize that some there have pushed beyond reasonable limits of civil disobedience, and property has been damaged, but this is a bigger issue than a pipe.

It's a two-part issue: One is a simple matter of a safe water supply for all citizens (Detroit?). The other, bigger issue, is that of a people fed up with the constant hypocrisy in how they've been treated, and this might be the last straw that set off an historical protest.

In looking at a map, this pipe could have been routed right down the I-90 right-of-way to near Bismarck, then SE along state highways to where it's going. No one really cares about a pipe along an interstate. It's not rocket science, it's basic civil engineering. I realize a straight line was cheaper and easier, and avoided taking the pipe too close to a much wealthier population center. What does that say about us as a people?

This NYTimes piece hits the issue right on the money...
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/02/op...?emc=eta1&_r=0

I divested all stock ownership in Energy Transfer Partners when this protest started and we realized we owned shares.

Maybe it's not the responsibility of representatives from Montana, but I think a regional group of elected officials, meeting with the White House and the Corps, could get this thing unstuck, treat people fairly, and avoid a nasty, drawn-out, embarrassing, and potentially tragic affair.

Thank you for your time."




shit...I forgot.....I'm only here for the cars....so long.
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Old 12-02-2016, 02:44 PM   #7
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Oh my fuck....... will edit with actual information soon


Holy shit. 1st and foremost as many of you I build these things for a living and spend 8-12 months away form home to do so. Its a very niche industry, and its taken very seriously by all involved especially in the last decade or so shit has gotten real with some high profile failures of older infrastructure...

The DAPL, is north of the recognized reservation boarder since 1889..... On land controlled by the corp of engineers, as would the approval of any line to be built ON a reservation that would fall under FERC's regulatory umbrella. Reservations are not independent nations ( I think we all know this) they are no more a nation that your local county govt. Like I have stated several times in the other thread and already mentioned in this one the time to action to influence the route is when its in the planning and purposal phases when its had to be sent into the Federal, State, Local govts for approval before any ROW is bought, pipe is ordered and contracts put out for bid to install it. There are plenty of public notices that have to be posted by law to allow the public time to weigh in on it. THATS is the time to start this kinda shit about "protecting" and influence where a line will run. Not when the ROW is bought, Pipe ordered, and construction is not just underway but nearing completion. They had their chance to deal with it but by not paying any attention to what was going on around them when it comes to pubic notices they have made their bed now its time to live with and lie in it.

Line integrity is a very big fucking deal, everyone assumes its a girth weld that will come apart, and the reality is that happens very very rarely when there is a failure, 9 times out of 10 its form failed corrosion controls that have allowed corrosion to compromise the pipe wall. Most all the failures you hear about are on lines that are at least 30 (normally much older) years old (yes the Keystone project did have an issue). The cost to clean shit up, and the environmental costs is monumental. Also a N/G blow out will destroy lots of shit, and will kill people very easily.....

There is lots and lots of scrutiny placed on the welding, everything is held to a procedure, or certified welders that have tested in for the job are used. Only the correct materials are used, every line weld that is made is overseen by a certed inspector (much of the time a old retired welder) to make sure all things are done right, and pipe is cared for, then every weld is nondestructively tested by the method most suited to the type, geometric's and welding process used then not just the field guys look at the results normally there are 3 sets of eyes with many years of experience interpreting those results, and they are held to a industry standard the same as the welding procedures. Once construction is complete the line will be filled with water and pumped up to 125% +/- of max opp pressure and held in a very narrow window for a given amount of time depending on what the gas company calls for if over and above the govt regulatory minimums for the line type, size, intended use and materials used, (was on a line that was 20"x .375 X70 grade pipe to 2100PSI(just a few pounds shy of the pipes Minimum yield) last year and MOP design for the line was 1150psi). If there is a loss in pressure then either start the test again, or there is a failure that needs to be found and fixed.

Sections of line that are in long drills road bores, etc... under things like rivers, roads, air ports, lakes, wet lands, and other things not wanted to be disturbed are thicker walled pipe, have a more durable coatings, and is welded up and PRETESTED in the manner above, that hydro test is not to test welds but the pipe it self. Those sections are then re hydro tested when the rest of the line is tested. Corrosion controls have gotten massively better in the last 20 years with the coatings used and the cathodic protections (like on boat motors with sacrificial an nodes) and a small electrical charge applied to the pipe itself to stop corrosion.


Ok now that I have gotten the very basics outta the way, Late fan mentions the silver tip blow out on the yellowstone, yup that sucked, but that was caused by record flooding and snow runoff washing the bank away from a line that was laid in the 70s (IIRC) and was struck by passing derbies. Not to mention the feds them selves (PHMSA) found that the silvertip exceeded burial requirements. Not to mention XOM was monitoring line for depth of cover.
http://www.ogj.com/articles/2011/07/...silvertip.html

Late also brings the Flint water ordeal into the fray, still not really knowing anthing about what he is talking about my father put more miles of water main and sewer in the ground in southern mi than I can count as foreman for about 25 years. I started right out of High school doing the same (and in the summers while in school) for about a decade, the lead issues there come from the OLD OLD ass piping in Flints water system, and the change in flints water supply, and the chemistry added to make it potable not playing nice with the lead joint water main and lead service piping (likely installed in the 1920-late 40's). I understand the point hes trying to make but its a bad bad way to go about it, just because the word "pipeline" is involved and they are both piping systems buried in the ground but that is about where the similarities end.

Yup shit happens and things can happen, but there are over 2 million miles of high pressure INTERSTATE transmission lines shipping oil, N/G and products, millions more of gathering lines, INTRASTATE transmission and untold miles of low and medium pressure distribution line, all delivering billions of barrels and MCF's of gas every month with very very few incidences. I liken it to flying its the safest way to get around but when something happens shit gets real.....
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If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
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Last edited by mrsleeve; 12-02-2016 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 12-02-2016, 03:00 PM   #8
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I think the Tribes made the first mistake by not being more proactive when the planning phase for the pipeline was taking place, raising serious concerns and etc.

But at this point its gone way too far and both sides need to take a chill pill, Stop burning cars as protests, and stop using fire hoses on protesters during fuckin winter.
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Old 12-02-2016, 04:10 PM   #9
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i'm flying out tomorrow. will report from the ground when i can but am told cell jammers are being deployed from light aircraft so comms may be spotty.
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Old 12-02-2016, 04:22 PM   #10
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Saw a face book post from the local Sheriffs Deputies from today, where your veteran brethren Decay are throwing snowballs unprovoked at the police and chucking grappling hooks at the fences trying to pull them down at the police line, while shouting obscenities and vulgarizes at the deputies and especially the Female ones
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If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
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Old 12-02-2016, 06:49 PM   #11
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That sounds like the kind of misinformation the police would put out if they wanted to paint us in a bad light.

Don't know if you read the op order I posted, but it has "NO DRUGS, NO ALCOHOL, NO WEAPONS, NO VIOLENCE" repeated several times (because well, a lot of troops don't hear the first time you say something).

Got in touch with command today, finally. My first-line says it's "very cold".
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Old 12-02-2016, 08:37 PM   #12
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Fair enough, just passing on what I am seeing from some of my contacts thats all.....
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If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:19 AM   #13
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Fair enough, just passing on what I am seeing from some of my contacts thats all.....
well, unfortunately, the gov't side has been doing good psyops. lots of misinformation about non-existent inclement weather and roadblocks to discourage people from trying; and then we hear from the native side that none of this is true, come on in. everything they say may have an ulterior motive.

this actually affected our team budget- my buddy freaked out because of what he read in the news and left without me, and i had to buy a $1k plane ticket. FUCK. tacops are always a pain in the fucking ass like this.

t minus 12 hours to airport time. i'm watching the movie Network while i pack my duffel
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Old 12-03-2016, 03:48 AM   #14
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saw something here in the last couple of days where your less devoted protesters are packing it up in ND and heading down here to my job in FL because its too cold now...
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If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
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Old 12-03-2016, 04:53 AM   #15
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The weather is supposed to be extreme cold in the next week. Pack warmly. I dont have a dog in this fight, but as an outsider it seems very late in the game to be protesting.

Where are you working in FL sleeve?

We had a contractor put in an effluent water line to our golf course last year using hdpe pipe. It was a pretty educational experience for us. Def small potatoes compared to NG or oil but nonetheless, pretty neat to see them bore under creeks and such. I know those guys took it very seriously. A lot of $$$ can be pissed away with a simple mistake, so I can imagine the protocols in place for something with environmental consequences.

Sleeve: What sort of measeres are taken to allow for shifting earth? Small earthquake etc. espc in underground sections. Engineering solutions fascinate me as I have very little engineering ability.
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