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View Poll Results: Are you religious?
I am religious 26 40.63%
I am not religious 38 59.38%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-03-2017, 01:26 PM   #31
z31maniac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exodus_2pt0 View Post
Well put.

My Brother said something that has always stuck with me. "Good people go to good places".

I personally believe in a God. That said, it's a personal belief that wasn't taught to me. As a matter of fact my views on the matter have cause Christian family members to worry about me. To be honest I don't like the idea of a heaven or hell, because I personally don't believe in inherently evil people. I don't think there is a single person who has lived who deserves an eternal (spiritual) punishment. I like to think of the earth as a school, you keep coming back until you have learned whatever it is that you need to learn.

Live and let live. You aren't going to offend me with your belief or non belief.

Anywho, whether we are here to worship, by chance, or to learn, we can't be sure of either and we're in it together so let's make the best of it.
Hitler? Stalin? Mao ZeDong? Josef Mengele?
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Old 01-03-2017, 01:29 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by cale View Post
I'm mostly ok with this, however the following statements highlight why it's a slippery slope.



You attempt to use your religious views to interpret science, and in turn reject science to some degree based on this. Some people in power are also of the same thinking, as well as millions of children growing up who hold ignorant and incorrect interpretations on science thanks to the influence religion and their parents had on them. This kind of thinking does get in the way, it does cause setbacks.
How is questioning science changing it's mind in my lifetime showing religion? What religion is this supposed to be? Philosophy ≠ Religion.

Quote:
re·li·gion
rəˈlijən/
noun
noun: religion
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
Quote:
phi·los·o·phy
fəˈläsəfē/
noun
noun: philosophy
the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.

  • a particular system of philosophical thought.
    plural noun: philosophies
    "Schopenhauer’s philosophy"
  • the study of the theoretical basis of a particular branch of knowledge or experience.
    "the philosophy of science"
For all we know apes could have been injected with alien DNA as an experiment, none of us were there, we can only theorize.

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Old 01-03-2017, 01:42 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by ForcedFirebird View Post
How is questioning science changing it's mind in my lifetime showing religion?
Please clearly state how science has changed its mind in your lifetime, and we'll go from there. Science is supposed to change, it's supposed to progress. Acknowledging this as a negative is not a good place to start if you want to discuss the science.

If you're talking about something from nothing, and the claim that nothing existed prior to the big bang then I'm sorry but you're stumbling to understand because that's not what science says. The most widely accepted theory is that everything existed in a initial singularity, and that expanded into the universe we now live in.

Also, the curious thing about a singularity is that in its existence, the laws of physics simply do not function. The laws break down, the math doesn't work, and we're still trying to discover what really was.
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Old 01-03-2017, 02:39 PM   #34
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Hitler? Stalin? Mao ZeDong? Josef Mengele?
This.

I could not disagree more that there are no inherently evil people. There are. Without question. Some people may become evil from certain life experiences, but others are just fuckin evil from the start.

And if there is anyone that has lived that deserves eternal punishment, Hitler qualifies. You can't take the lives of millions of people and not pay for it. Unfortunately in this case, I don't believe in a heaven or hell.


Anywho, as for me, I'm an athiest. Didn't grow up in a religious family, although my dad's side does have a Quaker background, and I did go to a Quaker school. Though I don't believe in any God, the idea of a man in the sky controlling everything seems silly to me, I actually kind of like Quakerism for it's philosophical aspect/moral beliefs. It's a very peaceful religion (unlike certain others - ahem), and not at all preachy - IMO it seems to encourage one to think for themselves, and reach their own conclusions (to a fault - it's still a religion).

I really haven't had much exposure to typical religion. I recently went to a Catholic funeral, and I have to admit I found some aspects of it very strange. Creepy to be honest. Towards the end, they started handing out some kind of cracker. People would get up, and get in line. The cracker represented the body of Christ. Some of them took it themselves and ate it, whereas others had it fed to them which seemed really childlike, despite them being adults. The whole thing just felt very cult-like to me, and generally pretty submissive. Not a lot of individual thinking, just following the others. That's my outsider's perspective, and that experience pretty much sums why I don't do religion. My experience with Quakerism however was pretty mild, and never had anything weird like that. Probably why it's one of few religions I actually respect.


I don't know how many of you are into comics, but if you've read Preacher, it does a great job depicting God from the perspective of an atheist. If you haven't read it, I'd recommend it, even if you aren't into comics (I'm not), it's a good read.
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Old 01-03-2017, 03:50 PM   #35
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Please clearly state how science has changed its mind in your lifetime, and we'll go from there. Science is supposed to change, it's supposed to progress. Acknowledging this as a negative is not a good place to start if you want to discuss the science.

If you're talking about something from nothing, and the claim that nothing existed prior to the big bang then I'm sorry but you're stumbling to understand because that's not what science says. The most widely accepted theory is that everything existed in a initial singularity, and that expanded into the universe we now live in.

Also, the curious thing about a singularity is that in its existence, the laws of physics simply do not function. The laws break down, the math doesn't work, and we're still trying to discover what really was.
Singularity is only one theory. You also have the black hole and bubble theories that I can think off the top of my head. So now "Laws of physics don't exist"? Physics that that the universe always was and always will be, now because we call it the big bang, it's not creation? I'm not meaning to appear to look at it negatively, but they are after all - theories.

The big bang wasn't even thought of a century ago, and some of us have living relatives that were alive about the time it became widely accepted. Perhaps saying "in my lifetime" wasn't proper. Einstein himself rejected Hubble's law up until his latest memoirs.

My point was the definition of "religious" can be misconstrued, and was mixed into my thoughts/ideas. Humans will always ask the question, "Where did this all come from" or "Are we alone" or "What are we doing here". In reality we are just a speck on a speck in the whole timeline.

Am I considered religious because I don't think we are an accident, but also don't think there's a magic man in the sky? Just kind of odd that we are a one in a decillion decillion decillion chance. Am I going to bang on your door and tell about the big bang, natural selection, or evolution? No. Just making a silly point about the initial post.
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Old 01-03-2017, 03:56 PM   #36
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Are you trying to ask if we believe in intelligent design or some deity?
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Old 01-03-2017, 03:57 PM   #37
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:00 PM   #38
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There is so little respect in this post that it is sickening.
Please explain what you find disrespectful about my post. I don't see it. At all. Most of that was simply repeating my Dad and Step-Mom's reasoning for not retiring down there, how could that ever possibly be deemed disrespectful?


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So what if they were at church, work, or at a nude beach. If they were busy, they were busy! If you replaced "car show" or "e30 meet" in place of church, would your reaction be different?
I must not have painted a clear enough picture of that particular situation. This was before my Dad was retired, so he wanted to meet on a Sunday because that was the only day convenient for us to meet since we would be driving to Arkansas from NE Ohio to view the car. The guy was shitty from the start about the idea to meet on a Sunday because of church, but he relented, and then when we got to their house at the agreed upon time, after driving 12+ hours, they let us sit and wait for them an hour while they were late, "held up at church," putting their religion ahead of other people and business.

And yes, my general distrust of Christians probably does slant my feelings on the matter, I will admit that, but that is still no excuse for leaving people who just drove 12+ hours to pay you cash money for a car waiting like that.
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:21 PM   #39
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So what if they were at church, work, or at a nude beach. If they were busy, they were busy! If you replaced "car show" or "e30 meet" in place of church, would your reaction be different?
Uh, if they were at a car show, I would expect them to leave early. Really not that big a deal to leave a car show early to meet someone who just drove half a day to buy your car. It's basic courtesy.
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Old 01-03-2017, 05:17 PM   #40
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I must not have painted a clear enough picture of that particular situation. This was before my Dad was retired, so he wanted to meet on a Sunday because that was the only day convenient for us to meet since we would be driving to Arkansas from NE Ohio to view the car. The guy was shitty from the start about the idea to meet on a Sunday because of church, but he relented, and then when we got to their house at the agreed upon time, after driving 12+ hours, they let us sit and wait for them an hour while they were late, "held up at church," putting their religion ahead of other people and business.

And yes, my general distrust of Christians probably does slant my feelings on the matter, I will admit that, but that is still no excuse for leaving people who just drove 12+ hours to pay you cash money for a car waiting like that.
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Uh, if they were at a car show, I would expect them to leave early. Really not that big a deal to leave a car show early to meet someone who just drove half a day to buy your car. It's basic courtesy.
Case in point. The post was clear. Not saying anyone was in the wrong, just looking from the outside in.

Church is the guy's social time was my point. I don't attend an church, but have been to functions and can see how easy it would be to get "caught up in the moment, and lose track of time" so to speak . If someone wanted to meet me on a Sunday of a race weekend, I would be clear to them that the time I leave the track would vary - my wife can attest to that (many times took heat for being late home for family dinner).

Not being there and knowing all the details, I personally would have made the appt. much after my expected arrival.
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Old 01-03-2017, 05:23 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Vincent Brick View Post
The guy was shitty from the start about the idea to meet on a Sunday because of church, but he relented, and then when we got to their house at the agreed upon time, after driving 12+ hours, they let us sit and wait for them an hour while they were late, "held up at church," putting their religion ahead of other people and business[/B].

And yes, my general distrust of Christians probably does slant my feelings on the matter, I will admit that, but that is still no excuse for leaving people who just drove 12+ hours to pay you cash money for a car waiting like that.
Cry me a river, fellow atheist. Maybe you should respect the fact that maybe you were actually an inconvenience to them. Maybe they really did get held up by something they couldn't get away from, or maybe it's the only day of the week that they get to socialize with people who are far more important to them than hurrying off to meet some stranger looking to make a deal. So they ended up inconveniencing you by an hour; I've dealt with much, much worse when buying/selling cars, so quit being a drama queen and fucking get over it. It's this kind of impatient attitude that some atheists have toward anything they perceive as deliberate religious pressure which is really irritating and makes us all look like we're intolerant assholes. You've got to learn to be patient with people sometimes, don't make assumptions and just let shit go because in the grand scheme of things it's nothing.
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Old 01-03-2017, 05:40 PM   #42
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Dude if I'm selling a car, and we agree on a time of 7PM, I expect him to be here at 7PM. Period. 10 minutes late is one thing, an hour? No. And how often does he sell a car? Make a fuckin exception. Or, don't make plans that will conflict with other plans. Also, if you're the one late to a meeting, and you act like the other guy is the is in the wrong, you're an asshole.

Is it really that complicated?
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:03 PM   #43
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:12 PM   #44
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Hitler? Stalin? Mao ZeDong? Josef Mengele?
Could you argue that Josef Mengele personally was more evil than Hitler or vice versa?
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:45 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by rturbo 930 View Post
Dude if I'm selling a car, and we agree on a time of 7PM, I expect him to be here at 7PM. Period. 10 minutes late is one thing, an hour? No. And how often does he sell a car? Make a fuckin exception. Or, don't make plans that will conflict with other plans. Also, if you're the one late to a meeting, and you act like the other guy is the is in the wrong, you're an asshole.

Is it really that complicated?
The issue is that holding a grudge against somebody who may or may not have been held up at church which caused him to be an hour late to an informal meeting and then blaming it on the fact that he's a selfish christian is kind of cheeky to complain about. I've had people keep me waiting entire afternoons or kept me up past midnight only to bail out last second, or drive 4 hours to buy a car that was not at all described accurately. Shit happens, just gotta get over it. If somebody had made a 24 hour round trip to buy a car only to discover later that the seller lied and the car is junk, then that's a different situation.
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