Republicans are holding up Tax cuts from a bill that doesn't exist...

[joshh]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/gibbs-you-dont-have-have-bill-republicans-hold-it-hostage

"Gibbs: You Don't Have to Have a Bill for Republicans to 'Hold it Hostage'"




Desperation doesn't get any worse than this.

[Kansas]

They're just trying to pull a talking point out of their ass. It's a given that Republicans would vote it down; Pelosi just doesn't want to show how many Democrats would refuse to support a bill that only extended the majority tax cuts.

The whole thing is idiotic. Tax cuts for the majority should pass easily and the top 2% can deal just fine with paying an extra 3% income tax. But it's Washington, D.C. and common sense doesn't mean much.

[reelop19]

^^^^Looks like you're well on your way to socialism. Doesn't matter if they can afford the 3% or not. The question is when is enough and why have you bought into class warfare to the point where you think you should be able to tell the rich how much they should pay? Do you honestly believe it will stop at the rich?

[Massive Lee]

^^^^Looks like you're well on your way to socialism.

Ah, ah, ah. The dreaded "S" word. So, buddy. You made $250k last year?

[joshh]

They don't need a single Republican vote. They can't even get all the Dems on one side. then they blame the Republicans. ....lol.

[reelop19]

No I didn't make 250k last year but here's how my day goes:

Wake Up Turn on the lights - paying taxes on my electricity bill, my house and my bed
Take a shower and brush my teeth - paying taxes on my water bill
Eat breakfast - paying taxes for my food and drinks
Drive to work in my car - paying taxes for the roads, lights, signs, city workers, the school bus that I always get stuck behind with school children whom I pay for their schooling also. Oh an I pay taxes on the gas I'm using
Get to work - pay taxes on every penny I earned at work

You should get the point. That was only a little of what we are all taxed on but the point is we are taxed all day everyday. So I say again, who are you to tell me who should pay more in taxes?

[Kansas]

^^^^Looks like you're well on your way to socialism. Doesn't matter if they can afford the 3% or not. The question is when is enough and why have you bought into class warfare to the point where you think you should be able to tell the rich how much they should pay? Do you honestly believe it will stop at the rich?

Haha oh wow. The top marginal tax rate right now is 36%. You know what it was under Eisenhower? Over 90%. Under Reagan? 50%. If I support a 3% bump and I'm a socialist ... what are they?

Also consider that it cost more (in lost tax revenue) to cut the top bracket's taxes from 39% to 36% than it cost to cut the bottom 4 brackets (80% of the taxpayers) taxes by 10-15%.

They don't need a single Republican vote. They can't even get all the Dems on one side. then they blame the Republicans. ....lol.

Well, they'd need a couple Republicans to side with them in the Senate to block a filibuster, but the point is that they're not even willing to try. There's no reason not to just put it to a vote and get it on record.

No I didn't make 250k last year ...

Well then you don't have to worry about your income taxes going up. Actually no matter what you make, you don't have to worry about it. Not extending the tax cuts is too big of a political liability. And get used to paying taxes. They only go up. At least they will once other nations quit lending us money.

[mrsleeve]

Haha oh wow. The top marginal tax rate right now is 36%. You know what it was under Eisenhower? Over 90%. Under Reagan? 50%. If I support a 3% bump and I'm a socialist ... what are they?

Ummm who got congress to raise it to those levels Oh YEAH FDR a DEM and Jimmy Peanut also a dem. had it at what 72% before Regan got congress to lower it to 50%. Lets not let the facts of how tax rates got that high stand in the way whos following presidency they stood.

Also consider that it cost more (in lost tax revenue) to cut the top bracket's taxes from 39% to 36% than it cost to cut the bottom 4 brackets (80% of the taxpayers) taxes by 10-15%.

Well you have to remember than teh bulk of small business are set up as S-corp or similar, an there for any money left in the bank at the end of the year is taxed at Personal income tax rates. Most smart bushiness have at least 6-8 months of payroll, and over head expenses in there, and then are taxed accordingly. Depending on your line of work that can be MILLIONS that is not intended to be treated as income but is taxed like it.

I will ask you now like I have asked others that think like you do. Have you ever had a pay check signed by a poor person?????

When you lower the taxes on the top, you then remove some of the penalty for success and there for they will go out an make more money to be taxed, than they would other wise if they have to send the bulk of it to the govt. Win win why is this shit so hard for you people to understand.

Well then you don't have to worry about your income taxes going up. Actually no matter what you make, you don't have to worry about it. Not extending the tax cuts is too big of a political liability. And get used to paying taxes. They only go up. At least they will once other nations quit lending us money.

Well you tax my boss too much he will stop pursuing jobs for me to do, and keep me busy for 80 hours a week, but maybe 60 or even 40, there by lowering my ability to earn money. As its not worth the extra effort to pursue the work, and have a the investment and overhead of keep materials around and what not if hes going to have to send 50+% off to the govt as the return will not be worth the risk.

Or he may just eliminate a job or 2 or 3 that are not 100% necessary, but are kept around to make things a little easier. As now their payroll and benefits payments need to be used to pay the additional tax burden.

Taxes effect the bottom line and are considered OVERHEAD, and you raise a businees over head the cost is passed onto the customer/end consumer, and cuts are made else where to cover the new cost of doing business.

Really again why is this so hard a concept to grasp?

[reelop19]

Gotta love it when people take things out of context. I don't suppose a 50% tax rate would be bad compared to the catastrophe that Carter created as well as FDR

[Poloe30]

No I didn't make 250k last year but here's how my day goes:

Wake Up Turn on the lights - paying taxes on my electricity bill, my house and my bed
Take a shower and brush my teeth - paying taxes on my water bill
Eat breakfast - paying taxes for my food and drinks
Drive to work in my car - paying taxes for the roads, lights, signs, city workers, the school bus that I always get stuck behind with school children whom I pay for their schooling also. Oh an I pay taxes on the gas I'm using
Get to work - pay taxes on every penny I earned at work

You should get the point. That was only a little of what we are all taxed on but the point is we are taxed all day everyday. So I say again, who are you to tell me who should pay more in taxes?

This country has a lot of bills and things that need to be paid for. What do you expect? Go live in Somalia if you dont like taxes.

[z31maniac]

Haha oh wow. The top marginal tax rate right now is 36%. You know what it was under Eisenhower? Over 90%. Under Reagan? 50%. If I support a 3% bump and I'm a socialist ... what are they?

Also consider that it cost more (in lost tax revenue) to cut the top bracket's taxes from 39% to 36% than it cost to cut the bottom 4 brackets (80% of the taxpayers) taxes by 10-15%.

Please pull up federal income revenue stats from the 20s, 80s, 2000s when the upper rates were cut and the effect it had on the federal coffers.

Because Congress continued to spend like drunken sailors the last two times, does not change the fact that lowering taxes increased revenue.

Well, they'd need a couple Republicans to side with them in the Senate to block a filibuster, but the point is that they're not even willing to try. There's no reason not to just put it to a vote and get it on record.

Yeah, because Pelosi didn't want the Dems on record for a tax cut right before a pivotal election.

Well then you don't have to worry about your income taxes going up. Actually no matter what you make, you don't have to worry about it. Not extending the tax cuts is too big of a political liability. And get used to paying taxes. They only go up. At least they will once other nations quit lending us money.

Someone like me will pay nearly $1200 a year in extra taxes (not including the rise in healthcare costs and additional taxes associated with Obamacare).

So someone like me, avg middle class wage earner has $150-250 a month pulled out of my net income.

Am I going to starve? No.
Not be able to pay the bills? No.
Reduce contributions to savings/401k? No.

It will pull $1800-3000 discretionary spending out of the economy, per year. Just for me. If the tax cuts are allowed to lapse, it's estimated more than $10 billion PER MONTH will come out of the economy.

Sounds like a brilliant strategy in a faltering economy, wouldn't you think?

Kansas, I have to ask, are you still in college?

[Massive Lee]

Hey Reelop

Did you go to school? Did you go to the library? Was there a public swimming pool or playground in your youth? Do you go on the highway? Do you use backroads? Do you enjoy not being invaded by Communists (thanks to the army)? Do you watch public television? Do you like eating inspected food products? Do you enjoy having a house for which the construction was regulated by governmental standards?

Taxes pay a lot more than what you think.

[Poloe30]

Hey Reelop

Did you go to school? Did you go to the library? Was there a public swimming pool or playground in your youth? Do you go on the highway? Do you use backroads? Do you enjoy not being invaded by Communists (thanks to the army)? Do you watch public television? Do you like eating inspected food products? Do you enjoy having a house for which the construction was regulated by governmental standards?

Taxes pay a lot more than what you think.

:up:

[mrsleeve]

Hey Reelop

Did you go to school? Did you go to the library? Was there a public swimming pool or playground in your youth? Do you go on the highway? Do you use backroads?

Paid for by property taxes, gas taxes, and Millage's and local taxes, (all though the states have to pay the feds and the fed redistribute that back in highway funding) NOT INCOME TAXES big difference in what we are talking about here.

Do you enjoy not being invaded by Communists (thanks to the army)?

one of the few things that the Feds are supposed to do, defend the nation. So this is a moot point as the DoD budget for this year is 513b and would (the 50% that pay in now) lower our income tax burdens by a FUCK LAOD

Do you watch public television? Do you like eating inspected food products? Do you enjoy having a house for which the construction was regulated by governmental standards?

Then why does every PBS station solicit for millions outta the viewership every quarter???? Yeah they get govt grants and shit but certainly not the bulk of their operating budget that comes from donations and programing sponsorship. Umm when you BUY a building permit , then you have to pay a fee every time they come out, that pays for the inspectors (or at least is supposed to) and there really thanks to govt intervention and regulation has pushed the price of all construction through the roof in the last 20 years to comply with all the shit it gets expensive.

Taxes pay a lot more than what you think.

Yeah and how much of it is really necessary???? If people were responsible for themselves and didnt leave it up to the govt to protect us from ourselves we would not be having this conversation.

Utopia is not what you think it is.

[Kansas]

Ummm

... So it was a good thing that Reagan lowered it to 50%? 50% is a good rate?

Depending on your line of work that can be MILLIONS that is not intended to be treated as income but is taxed like it.

If that's true then it is something that needs to be fixed. But that's no argument as to why the top couple percent in this country can't pay a little more in income tax.

why is this shit so hard for you people to understand.

It's hard to understand because reaganomics is bullshit. The only people it benefits are the top couple %. In case you haven't noticed, since those policies became popular again; the income disparity has increased drastically, more Americans have slid beneath the poverty line, we've run up a massive national debt, etc etc etc.

Taxes effect the bottom line and are considered OVERHEAD, and you raise a businees over head the cost is passed onto the customer/end consumer, and cuts are made else where to cover the new cost of doing business.

Unless the top tax rate tapers towards 100%, then there will always be a profit motive. Businesses will continue to expand, the wealthy will continue to invest (hell capital gains is only what, 15-20%?). Using your logic the US economy should have busted in the '50s and '60s, when in fact it boomed.

Please pull up federal income revenue stats from the 20s, 80s, 2000s when the upper rates were cut and the effect it had on the federal coffers.

What's your point? With the exception of the late '20s, the top marginal rate was still higher than it is now. And like you're trying to illustrate, the economy was doing well. But is that because the top tax rate was reduced? No. The major economic boom that you're attempting to avoid discussing is the late '40s to the '60s, when the top marginal tax rate was between 94% and 70%, and our GDP per capita grew at a rate not seen before or since.

Sounds like a brilliant strategy in a faltering economy, wouldn't you think?

For you, sure. That's exactly what most people are doing. Including the wealthy. Now consider that the 3% tax cut for the top 2% (of which you nor I are anywhere close to being a part of) cost more than cutting 80% of Americans taxes by 5-10%. You want to lower the tax burden on the majority of Americans without adding to the debt? Raise the top bracket rate.

I cannot understand how you guys can complain about your tax burden, then turn around and defend the rich's right to pay marginally less taxes. Especially considering that their discretionary income is more than most of us make in a year. It's idiotic. The money has to come from somewhere and it's either going to hurt most of us or be a small headache for a few percent.

Utopia is not what you think it is.

And if your idea of utopia is impotent government and minimal taxes, I suggest (like Poloe30 said) that you go see how well that works in Somalia.