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M20 Starter Has Only 3 Terminals?

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    #1

    M20 Starter Has Only 3 Terminals?

    I may have two issues here, but let me describe the situation. 1991 325i, just had the engine/trans out for a complete going over. Starter worked fine beforehand.

    Went to crank the car for the first time after re-assembly, plugs out, to build some oil pressure and found that the starter spins, but does not engage the flywheel.

    Looking into it, I think the solenoid is either stuck or no good. I will try whacking it a few times but before I get to that, let me bring up the wiring.

    This starter has only three terminals. The two 8mm studs, the outer of which I have the large red and black wires run, the inner has the braided cable to the starter motor. Also, a 6mm stud which is clearly labeled terminal 50. I have the black/yellow wire from the ignition switch run to that terminal, which is verified by the ETM.

    There is NO 30h terminal for the small black/green wire. It's not broken off or anything like that, it clearly never existed on this starter.

    From what I recall disassembling the car, the black/green wire was previously connected to terminal 50 along with the black/yellow wire, so I had reassembled it the same way.

    Any thoughts on the wiring/terminals?

    Thanks.
    '89 BMW 325is Zinnoberrot / '88 VW Jetta GLI 16v Tornado Red / '89 VW Jetta GLI 16v Tornado Red / '89 VW GTI 16v Bright Blue Metallic / '91 BMW 325i Black / '91 BMW 325i Sport Black / '92 VW GTI 16v Black / '92 VW GTI 16v Montana Green / '01 Audi A4 Avant TQM Silver Metallic / '01 VW Jetta GLX VR6 Black
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    #2
    Early starters were 3 terminal, later ones were 4. I think the cutoff was sometime in 88. That small 4th wire wouldn't keep the starter from engaging though. I had it break on me once and the car started up fine but some of the accessories wouldn't work. Are you sure you installed everything correctly? It's funny it worked before but not after you worked on the engine. If possible, try to get the later 4 terminal solenoid. They are common and can be had cheap.
    "I'd probably take the E30 M3 in this case just because I love that little car, and how tanky that inline 6 is." - thecj

    85 323i M TECH 1 S52 - ALPINEWEISS/SCHWARZE
    88 M3 - LACHSSILBER/SCHWARZE
    89 M3 - ALPINEWEISS II/M TECH CLOTH-ALCANTARA
    91 M TECHNIC CABRIO TURBO - MACAOBLAU/M TECH CLOTH-LEATHER

    Comment

      #3
      Originally posted by reelizmpro View Post
      Early starters were 3 terminal, later ones were 4. I think the cutoff was sometime in 88. That small 4th wire wouldn't keep the starter from engaging though. I had it break on me once and the car started up fine but some of the accessories wouldn't work. Are you sure you installed everything correctly? It's funny it worked before but not after you worked on the engine. If possible, try to get the later 4 terminal solenoid. They are common and can be had cheap.
      Were there any other physical differences between early and late starters? Either way, it worked before. I used the same starter/flywheel/trans as before and looking back through the pics I took during assembly everything looks good. Maybe it's just the solenoid sticking and a BFH is the solution?
      '89 BMW 325is Zinnoberrot / '88 VW Jetta GLI 16v Tornado Red / '89 VW Jetta GLI 16v Tornado Red / '89 VW GTI 16v Bright Blue Metallic / '91 BMW 325i Black / '91 BMW 325i Sport Black / '92 VW GTI 16v Black / '92 VW GTI 16v Montana Green / '01 Audi A4 Avant TQM Silver Metallic / '01 VW Jetta GLX VR6 Black

      Comment

        #4
        No physical differences. Just the different solenoids. In my experience, the BFH trick works when the solenoid is stuck and the starter doesn't spin at all. You can give it a try though. Just don't get too crazy with it. Use a piece of wood and hammer on that.
        "I'd probably take the E30 M3 in this case just because I love that little car, and how tanky that inline 6 is." - thecj

        85 323i M TECH 1 S52 - ALPINEWEISS/SCHWARZE
        88 M3 - LACHSSILBER/SCHWARZE
        89 M3 - ALPINEWEISS II/M TECH CLOTH-ALCANTARA
        91 M TECHNIC CABRIO TURBO - MACAOBLAU/M TECH CLOTH-LEATHER

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by reelizmpro View Post
          No physical differences. Just the different solenoids. In my experience, the BFH trick works when the solenoid is stuck and the starter doesn't spin at all. You can give it a try though. Just don't get too crazy with it. Use a piece of wood and hammer on that.
          Good info, thanks. I just tried with the hammer a bit, no difference. On a whim, I pulled the black/green wire off completely and sure enough, the starter turned the engine over.

          So it works great if I leave the black/green wire disconnected. Obviously, it is supposed to serve a purpose, I read that it goes to the unloader relays, but I don't know where they are or what purpose they serve.
          '89 BMW 325is Zinnoberrot / '88 VW Jetta GLI 16v Tornado Red / '89 VW Jetta GLI 16v Tornado Red / '89 VW GTI 16v Bright Blue Metallic / '91 BMW 325i Black / '91 BMW 325i Sport Black / '92 VW GTI 16v Black / '92 VW GTI 16v Montana Green / '01 Audi A4 Avant TQM Silver Metallic / '01 VW Jetta GLX VR6 Black

          Comment

            #6
            The unloader relays are used to "disable" other functions of the car (blower motor, windows, radio, etc) to avoid voltage drop during cranking.

            Run your blower motor and crank the car. If the blower motor does not turn off while cranking, the unloader circuit is not working. It's not the biggest deal if it doesn't work; you can just ground it and deal with it.

            http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showpost.php?p=1541256&postcount=8

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by raj View Post
              The unloader relays are used to "disable" other functions of the car (blower motor, windows, radio, etc) to avoid voltage drop during cranking.

              Run your blower motor and crank the car. If the blower motor does not turn off while cranking, the unloader circuit is not working. It's not the biggest deal if it doesn't work; you can just ground it and deal with it.

              http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...56&postcount=8
              Big help, thanks! So from reading the post you linked, it sounds like I can either run the black/green wire to a ground point OR connect it to the large starter lug, nearest the engine block, which essentially converts the car to the early style wiring and retains the unloader function IF the unloader circuit is still working.
              '89 BMW 325is Zinnoberrot / '88 VW Jetta GLI 16v Tornado Red / '89 VW Jetta GLI 16v Tornado Red / '89 VW GTI 16v Bright Blue Metallic / '91 BMW 325i Black / '91 BMW 325i Sport Black / '92 VW GTI 16v Black / '92 VW GTI 16v Montana Green / '01 Audi A4 Avant TQM Silver Metallic / '01 VW Jetta GLX VR6 Black

              Comment

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