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Old 05-25-2017, 07:41 PM   #2056
LateFan
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Not a lie. Eisenhower was a steady hand in a dangerous time. He opposed his own military and party to try to prevent the powerful military manufacturing lobby we have today. Did you watch the Watergate hearings? Baker was a smart moderate with the county's best interest at heart - he should have run for prez. I supported McCain for a while until big donors made him swing to the right.

Name some current moderates with honest leadership abilities. Nope, you're in your cave and anyone left of Rush Limbaugh is a commie.
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:48 PM   #2057
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Not a lie. Eisenhower was a steady hand in a dangerous time. He opposed his own military and party to try to prevent the powerful military manufacturing lobby we have today. Did you watch the Watergate hearings? Baker was a smart moderate with the county's best interest at heart - he should have run for prez. I supported McCain for a while until big donors made him swing to the right.

Name some current moderates with honest leadership abilities. Nope, you're in your cave and anyone left of Rush Limbaugh is a commie.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.” - Thomas Jefferson

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Goldwater

Its ok to be lefty. Just own it. The things you like about McCain, Baker and Eisenhower were the lefty things they did.
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:34 PM   #2058
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If you're quoting Goldwater, that tells the rest of us a lot. The right has dragged the country so far right that they now call a moderate Democrat a lefty or a socialist. Moderate Repubs in Congress are kind of lost, they don't know who to trust or align with, since we're not supposed to cooperate on ANY kind of policy, even when it's good for everyone.

I am who I am.

If you're standing up for this President, you've got no legs to stand on. He was elected, he is the President, the process worked as designed, but it was a Yuge mistake on the voters part. I think most of the country is realizing that now. But the right won't/can't admit that. They need to ride this mule until it's a liability, then they'll turn on him. And if he broke the law, so long, good riddance.

Spoiled, undisciplined kids want everything their own way - that's not how countries or governments work.

A President, once elected, represents the entire country, works on behalf of the entire population. He/she by nature has to become more moderate in order to function - the trains have to run on time, the mail must go through. We Dems were concerned that Obama was becoming way too willing to cave to the right early on - he was trying to be a nice guy and unite, remember? Didn't work, they stone-walled his every policy move. Now they've forgotten how to govern, from the middle. That's how it works.

The great Walter Cronkite, America's Uncle, said:
“I think being a liberal, in the true sense, is being nondoctrinaire, nondogmatic, non-committed to a cause - but examining each case on its merits. Being left of center is another thing; it's a political position. I think most newspapermen by definition have to be liberal; if they're not liberal, by my definition of it, then they can hardly be good newspapermen. If they're preordained dogmatists for a cause, then they can't be very good journalists; that is, if they carry it into their journalism."

And keep in mine that public figures, on both sides, are often lying to you. The other best advice to anyone following government and politics, is from Deep Throat: Follow the Money. That will get you a long way in understanding who is telling the truth. Power corrupts, they say, and those in power need to manipulate the populace into following them. This is why true, great leaders are so rare.

End of civics class. Go to your room.

EDIT - I rebuilt a '69 Bronco, probably before you were born.
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:43 PM   #2059
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Lol you are funny!

EDIT: If you built a 69 Bronco before I was born, then you should be a hell of a lot wiser than you appear.

"A man who is not a Liberal at sixteen has no heart; a man who is not a Conservative at sixty has no head."
—Benjamin Disraeli

Its all good dude. I consider myself a Classical Liberal where individual liberty is paramount. You can fret about that if you wish, but really, it makes no difference to me.
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Last edited by marshallnoise; 05-25-2017 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 05-26-2017, 10:44 AM   #2060
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I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!
~ The Islamic State in Syria and the Levant
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Old 05-26-2017, 10:50 AM   #2061
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Oh that's a cute edit! Cognitively dissonant, but cute!
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Old 05-26-2017, 11:06 AM   #2062
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Oh that's a cute edit! Cognitively dissonant, but cute!
I hoped it would bring a smile to your face.
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Old 05-26-2017, 11:06 AM   #2063
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We Dems were concerned that Obama was becoming way too willing to cave to the right early on - he was trying to be a nice guy and unite, remember?
the fact you remember history this way is a telltale sign how myopic and deaf both sides are.
I'm a committed conservative. I believe smaller government doing less is a better road to travel.
Do you perhaps remember Obama saying, to the effect, when Republicans were trying to be included in the formation of Obamacare, "we won the election"? As a rebuke to the Republicans? Just sit down and shut the fuck up, we got this? From that day the R's opposed Obama because he was anything but a moderate and governed for the left as opposed to for the country. History will not treat Obama very well.
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Old 05-26-2017, 12:31 PM   #2064
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As an outsiders view, I've noticed that no matter what peoples views are (Demo or Rep) they seem to be completely closed to the other sides opinion no matter what that opinion is.

Are you guys really that divided down there? Is there absolutely no middle ground to agree on to at least start a working relationship on?
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Old 05-26-2017, 03:10 PM   #2065
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the fact you remember history this way is a telltale sign how myopic and deaf both sides are.
Do you perhaps remember Obama saying, to the effect, when Republicans were trying to be included in the formation of Obamacare, "we won the election"? As a rebuke to the Republicans? Just sit down and shut the fuck up, we got this? From that day the R's opposed Obama because he was anything but a moderate and governed for the left as opposed to for the country. History will not treat Obama very well.
Yeah its not like the Republican party pieced up the ACA into the half working junk we have today or anything.

Or that they consistently throw fits and 'shut down the government' till they get their way.

Or that Donald Trump almost daily reminds us he won the election, that the press is being unfair to him.

You are pretty great at describing yourself GWB.
Quote:
the fact you remember history this way is a telltale sign how myopic and deaf both sides are.
is almost ironic.

Dems didnt bow down and worship Obama, he did a lot of things they did not like. Drone Strikes, poorly pulling out of Iraq (even thought it just needed to happen, shouldnt have gone there in the first place). Not rebuking the NSA post Patriot act revelations, not pardoning snowden, etc. You think that way cause you are a big baby, who didn't get their way, and now that a joke of a republican is in the whitehouse you are kissing his feet just cause he is "shaking things up" and had an R next to his name on election day. Meanwhile the joke of a president is embarrassing us daily, making statements about topics he has obviously little understanding of. Which could be easily fixed just by fucking reading some of the info he is given daily.

Stop holding all these buffoons above criticism just cause they are 'not a damn libtard'. Some of these people are straight up trying to fuck us all.
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Old Yesterday, 07:06 AM   #2066
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No you won't. That's a bold face lie. Anyone not insanely liberal will be called Hitler.
I was considering voting for a few of the Reps that were running before the Trumpsicle was nominated. I didn't vote Democrat, and I certainly didn't vote Republican last November because of their nominee.

Quote:
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the fact you remember history this way is a telltale sign how myopic and deaf both sides are.
I'm a committed conservative. I believe smaller government doing less is a better road to travel.
Do you perhaps remember Obama saying, to the effect, when Republicans were trying to be included in the formation of Obamacare, "we won the election"? As a rebuke to the Republicans? Just sit down and shut the fuck up, we got this? From that day the R's opposed Obama because he was anything but a moderate and governed for the left as opposed to for the country. History will not treat Obama very well.
He left them write 180ish items in the ACA... so he couldn't have been telling them to shut the F up too harshly. And history will remember Obama much better now that his successor is such an epic embarrassment to the country. Like Latefan we need many more liberals AND conservatives who run closer to center. This extremism is taking the country down in the name of "liberty" on the right and "humanity" on the left.
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Old Today, 06:02 AM   #2067
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Meanwhile the joke of a president is embarrassing us daily, making statements about topics he has obviously little understanding of. Which could be easily fixed just by fucking reading some of the info he is given daily.
I am not convinced that Trump can read.
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Old Today, 06:09 AM   #2068
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From that day the R's opposed Obama because he was anything but a moderate and governed for the left as opposed to for the country. History will not treat Obama very well.
I actually think that many of Obama's policies, if put forth by Republicans would have been accepted by a majority of the right. You can say look at Healthcare, sure, the Dems certainly pushed that one through and for the most part the Right was on the sideline for that one, but if you look at most of what Obama did, you'll see that it sits right in the middle or even a bit right-leaning. Considering the promises that he ran on were much more liberal than what he eventually ended up doing, I really don't think you can say that he governed from the left, because most truly left-leaning people were disappointed that he was such a moderate as President.

As for history, I think Obama will obviously be remembered as the first African American President and his time in office will put him somewhere in a middle ranking when compared to all the rest. Was he great, no, was he terrible, no. It is a sign of the times and how fractured the society is that half the country NEEDS to believe that he was the anti-Christ, but in reality, 50 or 100 years down the road, he's just going to be an average president, he had some wins, he had some losses, the country soldiered on, he didn't bring about the end of days.
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