The End of Social Security

[slammin.e28]

You've got that backwards, SS is overdrawing on it's spending, not the other way around.

Okay, yeah, that's what I meant.

[mrsleeve]

Sleeve, I'm not an athiest by any stretch.

But this type of nonsensical religious high handedness stinks of superiority. The Chinese are the best savers on Earth and how many of them are Christian?

The post was absolute rubbish.

Well I am, and posts like yours that you attempt to discredit based solely on a religious comment is normally comes fome an agrresive atheists. Sorry just called it as I saw .........-

[Dozyproductions]

Is there any point in which SS can recover after the baby boomers use their share? Im 25 and it seems like I'm never going to see a dime back in my late stages.

[mrsleeve]

you are putting words in my mouth. read what i wrote.

my attitude towards SS is not informed by any 'disdain for the elderly', nor did i insinuate that i'm subsidizing someone's lavish retirement.


additionally, this




reeks of entitlement, one of your own pet peeves. you were not paying into it for you. it was for your grandparent's generation, and now your parent. you don't deserve anything out of the SS system. you expect it, and i understand why.

Well bitching about paying some old dudes grocery bill has kinda a disdan-y ring to it about "subsdizing" the elderly

Next ssi is not an entitlement like our govt in the last decade has decided to "rename" it like welfare or food stamps and such. Nice to see the reclassification is having the desired effect. Its my money I want it back



Dozy. More than likely no, we are the late comers to the poniz and we will get left holding the bag, we might be get somethign but it will be pennies on the dollar

[evandael]

Honey, it's not your money. SS is an entitlement program that draws from the masses to benefit a minority.

Also, I wasn't bitching. Note that the word 'subsidizing' was not present in my initial post. I was giving an anecdotal account so people who don't understand how SS works could grasp it. You would do well to take heed.

[BraveUlysses]

Next ssi is not an entitlement like our govt in the last decade has decided to "rename" it like welfare or food stamps and such.

Yes, it absolutely is an entitlement program, just like medicare.

[previasc96]

Sleeve, I'm not an athiest by any stretch.

But this type of nonsensical religious high handedness stinks of superiority. The Chinese are the best savers on Earth and how many of them are Christian?

The post was absolute rubbish.

Proverbs 21:20 NIV "In the house if the wise are stores of choice food and oil, but a foolish man devours all he has". Basically The wise man saves for the future, but the foolish man spends whatever he gets. There are other proverbs with such as these and other places in the bible that suggest proper management of your gain and also the principle of giving to the less fortunate when you can.

[uofom3]

Is there any point in which SS can recover after the baby boomers use their share? Im 25 and it seems like I'm never going to see a dime back in my late stages.

Sure. Stop electing people who bleed the trust fund dry. Find a libertarian candidate (do not confuse that with liberal) and you have a chance.

As it stands, it's highly questionable that you will ever see a dime. You can thank your parents and all their bullshit since the late 60's for that.

[mrsleeve]

Yes, it absolutely is an entitlement program, just like medicare.

Then so is your Insurance polices and your investments in the stock market then I assume????

Where you pay into them and have the potential to reep more than you sowed??? Or maybe your neighbor reeps more of your contributions than you do???? Where your contributions are transferred to someone else that might need them more than you.....

Social Security is an investor funded program that has also been used to fund the government, its NOT an entitlement program nor was it ever intended to be anything of the sort. The “entitlement” the government speaks of would be more appropriately applied to them, as they feel they are entitled to help themselves to our and our employers investments and use that money for whatever the fuck they felt like.

[uofom3]

Then so is your Insurance polices and your investments in the stock market then I assume????

Where you pay into them and have the potential to reep more than you sowed??? Or maybe your neighbor reeps more of your contributions than you do???? Where your contributions are transferred to someone else that might need them more than you.....

Social Security is an investor funded program that has also been used to fund the government, its NOT an entitlement program nor was it ever intended to be anything of the sort. The “entitlement” the government speaks of would be more appropriately applied to them, as they feel they are entitled to help themselves to our and our employers investments and use that money for whatever the fuck they felt like.

Investor funded program? That's a 401k - not SS.

SS is absolutely an entitlement program - by you saying that someone may put in X dollars but not get all of it back and some goes to someone who "needs it more" then you just defined an entitlement program. If they are so worried about me having money for retirement then force me to put that money in my 401k and ill handle investing it.

No One is an "investor" in SS - it's a tax. And yes, you are right about the feds raping it to fund - you guessed it - other entitlement programs and useless government spending!

[rwh11385]

You've got that backwards, SS is overdrawing on it's spending, not the other way around.

That's not accurate, SS is spending more than it takes in directly but the account is still in the black.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704360404576207070403848038

How to make it solvent past 2030 is a big question. Thirty years ago Reagan raised payroll taxes... but the worker per beneficiary was a bit healthier. Cutting benefits would bring the wrath of the retiree voters. Could up the cap but that makes the tax more marginal. The leading approach over the summer was changing COLA for benefits.




But something needs to be done and not just avoiding or ignoring the issue.

[rwh11385]

Is there any point in which SS can recover after the baby boomers use their share? Im 25 and it seems like I'm never going to see a dime back in my late stages.

Even after the trust fund is exhausted, there will still be people paying in to provide benefits... it just won't be equal to what it was.



Just make sure there is someone to work and pay for your benefits when you retire, either your kids or immigrants.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/05/08/social-security-immigration-overhaul-helps/

Social Security: Immigration Overhaul Helps

The analysis concludes that the effect of the immigration bill “will be positive” for Social Security’s finances over the long-term. More workers will pay taxes and, eventually, will be eligible for retirement benefits, and “the additional births for the increased population under this bill will have substantial positive effects,” the Social Security Administration’s Chief Actuary Stephen Goss wrote in a letter to Sen. Marco Rubio (R., Fla.).

[einhander]

Proverbs 21:20 NIV "In the house if the wise are stores of choice food and oil, but a foolish man devours all he has". Basically The wise man saves for the future, but the foolish man spends whatever he gets. There are other proverbs with such as these and other places in the bible that suggest proper management of your gain and also the principle of giving to the less fortunate when you can.

Show me a religion that teaches otherwise.

Christianity is not special and it is certainly not exceptional.

[rwh11385]

Yes, it absolutely is an entitlement program, just like medicare.

It was supposed to be an insurance program, in case you reached old age and survived after you stopped working. Obviously, life expectancy has changed a bit and the nature evolved.

Some use the term "earned entitlements" to characterize the differences...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/01/22/paul-ryan-congressional-republicans-slam-obamas-second-inaugural-address/

“No one is suggesting that what we call our earned entitlements – entitlements you pay for, like payroll taxes for Medicare and Social Security – are putting you in a ‘taker’ category,” Ryan said on conservative commentator Laura Ingraham’s radio show. “No one would suggest that whatsoever.”

But that's ironic given his ideology:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/23/brave-honest-paul-ryan/?_r=1

But while everyone has noted Ryan’s raw dishonesty here, let’s not let the cowardice pass unmentioned. If you’re a Randian conservative, as Ryan claims to be, then you should consider Social Security and Medicare every bit as much a part of the moocher conspiracy as Medicaid and food stamps. And don’t say that you pay for what you get: Social Security benefits aren’t proportional to payment, so that the system is somewhat redistributionist, and Medicare benefits don’t depend at all on how much you pay in, so that the system is strongly redistributionist. (You might even say that Medicare takes from each according to his ability, and gives to each according to his needs).

All of this is fine with me, but it should be anathema to Ryan. But he knows that Social Security and Medicare are popular, so he pretends that his radical philosophy has nothing bad to say about these programs, and that we can massively downsize government on the backs of the undeserving poor.

Since sleeve is a bit like Ryan, it's strange he's so defensive of SS. But whatever you want to call it, it needs to be fixed.

[z31maniac]

Sure. Stop electing people who bleed the trust fund dry. Find a libertarian candidate (do not confuse that with liberal) and you have a chance.

As it stands, it's highly questionable that you will ever see a dime. You can thank your parents and all their bullshit since the late 60's for that.

Unfortunately, what I'm seeing is the Libertarian party basically becoming the Tea Party with socially liberal views.