I came back to R3v after years away to say one thing...

[BraveUlysses]

and that would be unwilling

great post, excellent contribution

[roguetoaster]

repeal and replace obamacare, because it has obviously cut everyone's healthcare premiums by $2500 annually and resulted in lower healthcare costs

Although I think it may have been a step in the right direction it certainly costs me more, as I was paying $0 before, and now am paying whatever the penalty is in April. But seriously, I'd be willing to pay more for actual universal coverage as those folks who are on medicare are getting shafted badly in actual useful healthcare and I'd be happy to do something more to help them out.

[Schnitzer318is]

economic studies also show nearly all corporate taxes are paid by you and me in the form of higher priced goods and services.

This is not entirely concrete. The consumer sets the ultimate price of a good or service. Problem is that so many consumers are pussies and are unwilling to do without a service to prevent companies for jacking up pricing. It's called voting with your wallet.

As a for instance, my wife and I LOVED 50pc nugget meals from McDonald's. And yes, I know at our age we should have outgrown junkfood like that long ago. Neither of us is overweight so we enjoy them. Anyway, McDonald's lowered the count to 40pcs and upped the price slightly. We didn't have a nugget meal for over a year.

In another, we haven't had a cable service in over 3 years. We were tired of paying $1300/yr for a service that then forced ads upon us. And other reasons as well... hating the monopolies in the telecom industries, telecom companies not upgrading infrastructure, etc.

Unfortunately, most consumers just pay whatever a company asks... including (most likely) a majority portion of the corporate taxes. Just ask Apple's customers. Those sheep buy anything that company puts out for any price they ask. And they make good products, but ask way too much for them... because they can.

But, the main reason the product cost issue due to corporate tax doesn't really float with me is that those costs are more heavily influenced by the amount of money companies spend on lobbying, advertising, and compensation for the BOD's. Now, I am not saying corporate taxes don't play a part... just that they are not playing as big a part as many would have you believe. I'll see if I can find some statistics to support my hypothesis and I'll edit later. Now, I am talking major/large corporations, the type that would merge and "move" over seas... not small companies. Taxes on small companies and businesses should be low to stimulate that kind of growth.

[BraveUlysses]

Although I think it may have been a step in the right direction it certainly costs me more, as I was paying $0 before, and now am paying whatever the penalty is in April. But seriously, I'd be willing to pay more for actual universal coverage as those folks who are on medicare are getting shafted badly in actual useful healthcare and I'd be happy to do something more to help them out.

And of course, "repeal ACA" isn't much of a plan at all when you don't have anything to put in it's place. It's not like healthcare costs and premiums were going down prior to implementation of ACA.

[TheWipprSnappr]

As long as we still have the freedom to own and mod e30s, how bad off are we really?

[mrsleeve]

And of course, "repeal ACA" isn't much of a plan at all when you don't have anything to put in it's place. It's not like healthcare costs and premiums were going down prior to implementation of ACA.

You are aware that's why the aca was set up like it was, so it would fail, and a single payer system would have to be created al-LA the va/Medicare too replace it as the "logical next step" or only real solution. While employer based private hci would not go away, it would likely lead to heavy taxation of the now not "needed" fringe benifit. To help fund that single payer system

[Schnitzer318is]

And of course, "repeal ACA" isn't much of a plan at all when you don't have anything to put in it's place. It's not like healthcare costs and premiums were going down prior to implementation of ACA.

The Republicans already came up with a plan... it's Obamacare. The ACA is largely similar to their plans in the early 90's and almost identical to Romneycare. Soooo... I'm not sure why they are making such a big deal of the ACA as it usually ends up with egg on their face.

I pay slightly more (~$20/mo) through my wife's employer plans. I can live with that. Eventually, as more of the country is covered, costs are SUPPOSED to go down... assuming the insurers don't f^ck us all in the ass with unrealistic/contrived premiums and all of the states get on board.

[TimeMachinE30]

Although I think it may have been a step in the right direction it certainly costs me more, as I was paying $0 before, and now am paying whatever the penalty is in April. But seriously, I'd be willing to pay more for actual universal coverage as those folks who are on medicare are getting shafted badly in actual useful healthcare and I'd be happy to do something more to help them out.

Then you can help them out. Do not force another to do the same.

[BraveUlysses]

You are aware that's why the aca was set up like it was, so it would fail, and a single payer system would have to be created al-LA the va/Medicare too replace it as the "logical next step" or only real solution. While employer based private hci would not go away, it would likely lead to heavy taxation of the now not "needed" fringe benifit. To help fund that single payer system

yeah, that's been speculated by many people. there's no real evidence of it and you have to remember that ACA has not been failing due to its own merits--it's been undermined at every opportunity by republicans in congress

medicare delivers very high quality care for the elderly who are in the most expensive phase (from a healthcare perspective) of their lives. it's probably the most reasonable way to get to single payer healthcare.

The Republicans already came up with a plan... it's Obamacare. The ACA is largely similar to their plans in the early 90's and almost identical to Romneycare. Soooo... I'm not sure why they are making such a big deal of the ACA as it usually ends up with egg on their face.

It's similar to romneycare but not entirely fair to call it a republican plan when they are 100% uninterested in improving health care access or prices.

[gwb72tii]

yyou have to remember that ACA has not been failing due to its own merits--it's been undermined at every opportunity by republicans in congress

you have not been paying attention
ask the health insurers about how profitable its been to participate in the ACA

[gwb72tii]

It's similar to romneycare but not entirely fair to call it a republican plan when they are 100% uninterested in improving health care access or prices.

there have been many proposals from the right side, insurance over state lines, take your plan with you etc, health care savings accounts, get the consumer's skin in the game where the price for a procedure actually means something more than a $25 copay

[BraveUlysses]

you have not been paying attention
ask the health insurers about how profitable its been to participate in the ACA

how do i ask a health insurer? is there a 1800 number to call and ask a health insurer for their profits?

is it asking too much for you to provide any factual information to back your own assertions? you're the definition of intellectually lazy

here's a good example of how profit isn't the only reason that some of these providers are removing themselves from the state exchanges:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/aetna-warned-it-would-withdraw-from-exchanges-if-humana-deal-was-blocked-1471436663

Aetna Inc. told Justice Department antitrust officials in a letter early last month that if they sued to block its deal to acquire Humana Inc., it would immediately reduce its presence on the Affordable Care Act health-insurance exchanges and cancel a planned expansion.

The public emergence of the bluntly worded letter, from Aetna’s Chief Executive Mark T. Bertolini, has led critics to question the motives behind the insurance company’s recently disclosed pullback from the insurance exchanges. It also has added a layer to a broader debate over the causes and cures for the red ink the exchanges are generating for insurers.

[gwb72tii]

you asserted that the ACA is failing only because of republicans, not on its own merits.
google "insurance companies leaving the ACA" and you'll find plenty of information about the losses incurred by the same insurance companies that helped design the ACA because of the preponderance of sick unhealthy people enrolling instead of all you healthy youngsters that choose to pay the penalty (oops i mean tax as defined by Chief Justice Roberts)

do your own homework

EDIT
something ripped out of today's headlines

http://www.indystar.com/story/money/2016/11/02/anthem-could-pull-out-obamacare/93162570/

[BraveUlysses]

you asserted that the ACA is failing only because of republicans, not on its own merits.
google "insurance companies leaving the ACA" and you'll find plenty of information about the losses incurred by the same insurance companies that helped design the ACA because of the preponderance of sick unhealthy people enrolling instead of all you healthy youngsters that choose to pay the penalty (oops i mean tax as defined by Chief Justice Roberts)

do your own homework

EDIT
something ripped out of today's headlines

http://www.indystar.com/story/money/...care/93162570/

from your own article:

Anthem expects to make a slight profit in the Obamacare exchanges in 2017. But the company is hoping to see changes made to the law and how it is regulated that could improve its margins.

Still projected to make a profit in 2017 but it's just not enough



I'm more than willing to concede that ACA is a failure in most respects and would fail on it's own but don't pretend that republicans aren't actively undermining it at every opportunity.

60+ votes to repeal but no effort to replace it with anything

refusal of multiple states to establish sate insurance exchanges

refusal of several states to extend medicare for sick citizens

and from the article about humana i posted earlier you can see these companies are willing to pull out of the market for reasons other than profit.

[roguetoaster]

Then you can help them out. Do not force another to do the same.

Maybe you don't quite get how it works, but a society should exist for the betterment of all, and one person can't make that happen. So, as a consequence, everyone should (or must when legislated) chip in.

It's also worth remembering that you, me, and every other voter makes whatever laws exist more or less happen with our votes for representatives, even if the representative you voted for is on the losing side of whatever is passed by the legislative body..