Simple tie rod end question

[turbo55]

So I just got my first E30, a 1987 325is.
The steering is pretty sloppy so first I figure I'll change the tie rod ends (then I'll see if inner need changing, then will change the CAs and CABs). I got replacement tie rod ends, but when I went to get the old tie rod ends off, I'm running into the following problem:
I go to take the nut holding the tie rod end to the knuckle, but the bolt is rusty and the tie rod bad, so when I turn the nut it just turns along with the tie rod bolt. There's no room for any vice grips in there or an impact wrench, so I'm planning to just take a nut buster to it break the nut to get it off, but perhaps there's a simpler way?

[MrSlacker]

Apply pressure under the tie rod bolt with a jack. This will prevent it from spinning.

Then you will need one of these ($20 at Harbor Freight) to remove the ball joint from the knucke itself

[turbo55]

Ahh, didn't think of that. Will try that tonight, thanks!

[e30_302]

There's absolutely room for an impact, you just need a short extension or deep well socket. I use one every time, and never have to deal with the ball joint spinning.

[jalopi]

+1 to the impact, especially if you have a "universal" swivel socket.



Or you can take a prybar and pry the tie rods "down" using the control arms for leverage. That will keep the BJ from spinning

[turbo55]

I do have deep well sockets but no universal impact joint (and an electric impact wrench, which might be a little bigger than air), I tried getting it in there but the brake guard/cover behind the disk was getting in the way and I didn't want to push it too much. Maybe I'll try to turn the wheel out all the way to try to angle the impact wrench in there better.
Either way, sounds like I have 3 methods to try out now. Will report back!

[jalopi]

bend that cover guy, it'll bend right back with a screwdriver or prybar

[turbo55]

Success! First tried the impact wrench (bending back that cover), but the ball joint stud just kept spinning. Then tried the MrSlacker method of applying pressure from below with a jack and it came right off!

Didn't need the ball joint separator or a pickle fork to take the tie rod end off the knuckle, just put a 2x4 on the stud and whacked it with a mallet and it popped right out.

Now on to the next part, getting the outer tie rod out of the inner tie rod. Tried it a little tonight but ran out of time, have some penetrating oil on it and will try more tomorrow. Anyone have any tricks for that? Vise grip on the inner and twist the outer with both hands? Oh yeah I did take that clamp bolt off the inner rod.

[jalopi]

lol put that inner rod back onto the knuckle and bolt it on. spin the sleeve (ok fine, strain to barely turn it) until the outer pops out. then remove the outer tie rod

[turbo55]

Ahhhh, that sounds really simple, what a noob! I'll try that, thanks.

[jalopi]

No problem guy. Are you replacing the inner tie rods too though? Minus well take them off as a whole.

[turbo55]

So this 'simple' tie rod issue is becoming not-so-simple:
Firstly, no I was just going to change the outers at first to see how the steering is after that.

I tried your method jalopi of putting the outer back on the knuckle and spinning the inner tie rod (I think that is what you meant by "sleeve") - no luck. I even tried heating it with a propane torch for ~40 sec, won't budge. Picture attached, you can see the marks from the vise grips on the inner tie rod where I was trying to turn it.


So then I figure why not, I'll just remove the inner also then get the inner/outer assy on my workbench in my vise and wrestle with it there. I pull the boot back, and this:


I knew I had PS fluid leaks, but I thought it was only the hoses and was planning on changing them. Now I'm wondering if I should just do a PS delete... I guess that explains why turning the steering wheel felt so uneven.

Anyway, as far as removing the inner, it seems all I need to do is bend the lock tab back then grab the inner with a wrench and turn (probably CCW)?

[jalopi]

yep, inners have standard threading

IMO if you've got a leaky rack and you're trying to replace the tie rods anyway, do yourself a favor and get an e36 rack. PS delete is great... if you never visit parking lots or do daily driving in general. spring for a standard e36 or e46 rack, i personally thought the z3 rack was twitchy (so i switched to an e36, much better for me)

i'm sure people are gonna come in here and say "oh yeah my PS delete is great you can feel the road so much better yada yada yada" and generally hate on my comment. i assume these people have only been dealing with a lack of power steering for less than a year, never go to crowded parking lots or have deluded themselves into thinking that not having power steering is superior to having it. power steering systems, unless designed for a luxobarge or any pre-2000's american cars will operate great and give good feel for the most part. /endrant

[turbo55]

yeah I want to someday turn this into a daily driver (maybe next summer, after I POR15 it all over to prepare it for new england snow and salt), but not yet.

I do like the e36 rack idea but its a bit more than I want to spend right now (after I get the tie rods sorted I want to replace the CAs cuz the bjs are shot). I figure once I'm done with the tie rods I'll try to figure out if the rack itself is alright (as in the gear teeth not worn, I don't know how common it is for that to happen), then I'll probably do a $27 UHMW PS delete for the time being and if its not good I'll get an e36 rack some time later.

Speaking of which, do you know a good way to figure out if your actual rack/pinion gears are worn? As in determining if the rack itself is worn vice something else causing sloppy steering like the tie rods or CA bjs or strut mounts or the steering shaft u-joint?

[jalopi]

Tough to describe via words... but if you know how to "shake" a tire down to feel for bad tie rods or ball joints you'll be fine.

If you know the inner and outer tie rods are fine you can shake the wheel to see if you can feel any play.

FWIW, the guy I was apprenticing under told me that he could count the number of bad racks (as in worn gears) on one hand over the course of 25 years. From what I've heard it's pretty damn rare. Much different case for steering boxes obviously