NA is best - 3.1L M20 w/ ITB's

[downforce22]

Really have been a fan of your car, ever since I first saw it, this is one of my favorite pics:



I didn't realize you had an s38 e30 at one point. Curious how the WAR chip does, I was contemplating running megasquirt on my s38 car, not sure how well the WAR chip would run with the ITBs. There seem to be a few 3.1L m20's running around out there but you don't hear about them much. The low end torque is incredible!

[jeenyus]

very nice.

[nrubenstein]

I think that you should sell off the MAF/WAR chip combo rather than spend any money trying to make it work. Especially given how much you still aren't able to access with their tunes.

[Jaker]

I've been dreaming about an Alloy M52 with itbs recently

Dreaming here too.

According to Rama, it would put my 2.8 right around 250whp!

OP please keep us updated

I have an alloy Single Vanos M52 stroked out to 3.0 currently making 270/240 at the wheels on a 68mm RRBBTB. I wonder if this would help get me closer to 290?

[berlow94]

Dreaming here too.







I have an alloy Single Vanos M52 stroked out to 3.0 currently making 270/240 at the wheels on a 68mm RRBBTB. I wonder if this would help get me closer to 290?

It takes a lot to get a non-S54 N/A 24v motor to 290 at the wheels. My track car has slightly above 290whp and more torque than that on a dyno jet. It's a fully built up 3.35L S52.
Even if you hit that number, it won't be any fun on the street unless you drive like an idiot. IMO 270/240 is perfect for an e30. Any more than that and you need a roll cage and crazy reinforcing to keep the handling on par with the power output. 270 at the wheels will still pull on an E46 or E9x M3...

And if you don't care about keeping the handling characteristic or drivability of your car then just turbo or LSx swap it...


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[318aye]

+1 on probably needing more injector. Excited to see your results! I have an S52 rotating assembly in the garage waiting for a similar setup.

[Jaker]

It takes a lot to get a non-S54 N/A 24v motor to 290 at the wheels. My track car has slightly above 290whp and more torque than that on a dyno jet. It's a fully built up 3.35L S52.
Even if you hit that number, it won't be any fun on the street unless you drive like an idiot. IMO 270/240 is perfect for an e30. Any more than that and you need a roll cage and crazy reinforcing to keep the handling on par with the power output. 270 at the wheels will still pull on an E46 or E9x M3...

And if you don't care about keeping the handling characteristic or drivability of your car then just turbo or LSx swap it...


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I appreciate your feedback. However, the car is fully capable of handling a lot more power than 270/240. There's a significant amount of prep on it. Also, it's not an E30, but an E36 coupe.

[mr2peak]

There are actually quite a few 3.1L M20 RHD cars out there, they just don't get shared in public spaces often.

Car looks great, sent you a PM :)

[whitebulat22]

Love these NA m20 builds! I'll add a vote for megasquirt too. I don't think anybody's ever managed to make that work on the stock ecu and it comes nice and PnP with way more flexibility and added features. I elected to go MS on my build without even ITBs yet because I've seen too many give up on making the stock computer work for this stuff.

It takes a lot to get a non-S54 N/A 24v motor to 290 at the wheels. My track car has slightly above 290whp and more torque than that on a dyno jet. It's a fully built up 3.35L S52.

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I have an alloy Single Vanos M52 stroked out to 3.0 currently making 270/240 at the wheels on a 68mm RRBBTB. I wonder if this would help get me closer to 290?

How are you guys getting close to or above 100 torque per liter at the crank?

[Raxe]

I will probably eventually go with MS and a different ignition setup. I've had the War Chip for a while now and it's working alright, but it comes down to how well it'll handle this intake and how easy it will be to make changes. I've also heard Miller is working on an M5x tune for RHD ITB's...

+1 on probably needing more injector. Excited to see your results! I have an S52 rotating assembly in the garage waiting for a similar setup.

I have been reading your awesome thread like the Bible haha, it's actually what convinced me to go ahead with RHD. I haven't had any issues with the stock injectors on the bigger engine so far and I've got an AFR meter, but I guess if 17 doesn't cut it I'll just go bigger! I'm also planning on limiting to ~6200rpm at this point which should hopefully keep things in check.

I'm copying your catch can setup, though I plan on mounting mine where the power steering reservoir once lived.

There are actually quite a few 3.1L M20 RHD cars out there, they just don't get shared in public spaces often.

Car looks great, sent you a PM :)

Thanks for the tip!

[iXguido]

How are you guys getting close to or above 100 torque per liter at the crank?

Jaker's specs:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showpost.php?p=4715528&postcount=198

And I'd imagine Berlow has something similar, and more displacement helps too...

It takes a lot to get a non-S54 N/A 24v motor to 290 at the wheels. My track car has slightly above 290whp and more torque than that on a dyno jet. It's a fully built up 3.35L S52.

Sorry for the hi-jack. This is an amazing build! Can't wait to see the results.

[berlow94]

NA is best - 3.1L M20 w/ ITB's

I will probably eventually go with MS and a different ignition setup. I've had the War Chip for a while now and it's working alright, but it comes down to how well it'll handle this intake and how easy it will be to make changes. I've also heard Miller is working on an M5x tune for RHD ITB's...



I have been reading your awesome thread like the Bible haha, it's actually what convinced me to go ahead with RHD. I haven't had any issues with the stock injectors on the bigger engine so far and I've got an AFR meter, but I guess if 17 doesn't cut it I'll just go bigger! I'm also planning on limiting to ~6200rpm at this point which should hopefully keep things in check.

I'm copying your catch can setup, though I plan on mounting mine where the power steering reservoir once lived.



Thanks for the tip!

I would re-evaluate your situation. Remember, fancy hardware is only as good as the computer running it.
Pistons typically don't melt and rods typically don't bend from poor manufacturing, they fail from poor engine management. The Miller MAF kit isn't going to know what the F**K is going on. It is not Tuning. Just a poor mans way of changing a couple values in some of the tables of 30 year old electronics.

If your going to spend all of this time and money, the FIRST thing I would be thinking about is engine management. Remember reliability = dollars.

Most guys running their cars on the track with high HP engines are used to pulling the head and giving their motor a "refresh" once a year. This isn't because of "normal wear" it's because of damage to parts that was inflicted by poor engine management.

I've been beating the living piss out of my motor for 3 years in a row now. It has only needed new plugs, oil, and coolant. I have dyno results from the car brand new and 3 years in as well as 30+ channels of 50hz logging for every second of its life. I have ZERO loss of power/torque or reliability. That's only because I invested in a quality engine managment solution (not Megasquirt)

There is a huge difference in a motor feeling strong from the seat of your pants and having actual data to work with. From my guess, you will need atleast 21 or 24# injectors for this setup.

On a stock S52, you can easily reach 80% duty cycle on 24# injectors. (>80% duty cycle means the injector is stuck open. You have zero ability to make adjustments) Especially with ITB's, having an ecu that has the ability to utilize transient tables and use stuff like fuel pressure compensation, e-throttle control, integrated MAP sensor, the ability to work with factory sensors, built in wideband O2 controller, VE fueling, etc. can help grow on your build and save you $ down the road.
Remember, the S54 only opens its throttles 40% until the motor is well into its powerband when you floor it...


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[mr2peak]

MS2 has all of that stuff, MS3 has even more. How is megasquirt not a proper quality engine management solution?

[berlow94]

MS2 has all of that stuff, MS3 has even more. How is megasquirt not a proper quality engine management solution?

MS2 hardly has any of that stuff. MS3 has some of it. But even then, some of the features MS3 offers such as it's closed loop knock control is next to useless.

Look at Link or Emtron and compare the features. The info is out there.


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[MatRacer]

First time I see your car and I must say it looks fantastic! Once done, your setup will be just perfect!

Interesting points of view on the different tuning options...