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    m20 Turbo Headgasket pushing Issue

    Hello and thanks in advance,

    Car is in the forsale classifieds and i have noted the cars status in thread just to be clear.

    I purchased a 1992 e30 convertible at the beginnig of this year, I previously owned a early model coupe and purchased it with a turbo setup already on the car but, I was in college and did not have the funds to get the car running properly (Tuning) and the car had been passed through many hands and needed alot of parts updating and upkeep that i was unable to give at the time but it was a good experience over all and i enjoyed it causing me to want to turbo the vert once i purchased it.

    After driving the vert for a few months in the end of winter i started looking into turbo setups, I found a guy in NC who had a kit forsale along with many other extra parts. I drove to NC and helped the guy remove the motor and pulled the whole kit off the car for a great price.
    Here are some specs:
    huge FMIC
    cast iron turbo manifold-666
    eBay gt35r/50 trim
    megasquirt v3.5 (EBC may be wired in, No lift shifts, Launch Control)
    car has only seen 10psi, on this setup the car will dyno 300-350hp
    tial 50mm BOV
    tial 38mm wastegate
    diyautotune iat
    m50tps
    turbo XS manual boost controller
    aem uego wideband
    stainless turbo feed and return line
    p/s, a/c delete
    new timing belt, tensioner, waterpump, serpentine belt, thermostat, exhaust and Intake gaskets
    Ireland racing silicone coolant hoses
    Ireland racing solid poly mounts
    new valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket
    fel pro headgasket
    arp headstuds
    oil return tube and new seals
    auto meter boost gauge
    mishimoto radiator
    3" downpipe, v-band from turbo and exhaust to downpipe
    tre 255lph fuel pump
    adjustable fpr
    new fan clutch
    corbeau gt7 front seats with e30 rails
    oil cooler delete
    TRC clutch

    I brought the kit home on a friday night and had the car running before the end of the weekend, at this time the waterpump,timing belt,tensioner, headgasket, intake and exhaust gaskets, bp7res plugs,wires,cap,rotor and a few other items were taken care of at this time. Car is on 10psi and has not seen any higher than that.

    After literally 2 months i blew a headgasket (pushed the compression ring and burnt the coolant passage area on cylinder 3 on the intake side of the head) and tore it all apart and painted a few odds and ends along the way and warrantied my felpro gasket and threw it all back together not thinking to much of it

    Here i am a few months later with the same problem, I pushed the HG out and burnt it up on cylinder 3 same exact as the first time.

    Since i put the setup on the car i have not tuned it, which obviosly could be a very big factor in my problem but the car ideals fine and afr are good in boost (11.9-12.8) and previous owner DD the car on this setup, I will be tuning the car soon once i get some funds aside.

    The block and head have not been resurfaced and visually look ok which i know isnt saying much but no cracks...., I will be taking a straight edge to it this evening, I would like to resurface them but then comes in the money factor and time with no car (this is my DD)

    I have read the common coolant jacket welding but this seems risky and time consuming ontop of if i remove everything from the head for this process i would like to rebuild it while im at it and that isnt in my budget at the time, also the option of o-ringing the block which i am leaning more towards at this moment (a friend has isky o-ring tool). I am pushing myself away from the mls route unless i resurface the block and head and weld up the coolant slots.

    I geuss my question is why is this happening in the same spot on cylinder 3? and is this common, Does it run hotter in that area?

    Is this deffinantly a tuning issue seeing how the car is on 10psi and popping when i hear of people running 20psi on stock HG and arps.

    The car runs great when cruising and driving like a civilized person and it boost very consistant and is very fast (have beat a ls6 cts-v, 6.0l gto and had fun keeping up with a v10 m5 on a pull) I have so much fun with this car (when im not working on it) and do not want to go to extreme into it just want to keep a low boost and semi reliable, moderate build. Which i feel i have acheived just now have this issue which is a very big one, I understand that i have alot of factors that could be the problem im just looking to hear all suggestions and options. I will have some spare cash soon and will be able to give the car the right attention. I just want to know how im going to approach it when that time comes.

    I will post picture of the headgasket after work this evening,

    Again thanks and sorry for any spelling and grammer.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    and if that doesnt work here is direct link :http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps7df3e59b.jpg
    Last edited by .FUDD.; 11-12-2013, 03:14 PM.
    1993 E30 Vert/Turbo/MS/Borbet BS


    Originally posted by anabolice30
    Oh well, not like I could scoop any of the chicks in this thread. My e30 is still on bottlecaps..

    #2
    Boost creep/spike? Check your logs?

    I think the big problem is that you need to either get your car tuned right, or at the very least start learning how to tune megasquirt yourself.
    Originally posted by priapism
    My girl don't know shit, but she bakes a mean cupcake.
    Originally posted by shameson
    Usually it's best not to know how much money you have into your e30

    Comment


      #3
      probably just the tune, I bet its timing map is too aggressive, or fuel quality is too low.

      popping at 10psi means serious tuning issues. Even the stock head bolts can handle 12psi on a decent tune.

      send me your timing map and I'll see what i can do as far as comparing it to a few of my known safe tunes.


      7speedshop.com

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Northern View Post
        Boost creep/spike? Check your logs?

        I think the big problem is that you need to either get your car tuned right, or at the very least start learning how to tune megasquirt yourself.
        Boost creep...Yes i have seen it creep to 12-13psi on occasions, i have not checked my logs due to i dont have a laptop available at this time nor do i have tuner studio downloaded but these are at accsess through a friend and i will obtain them asap.

        I know the tune can use some tweeking and that could be an understatment, And i would love to start learning but then that could be a bigger mess, but i understand what your saying and thanks. But would a bad tune cause the headgasket to fail in the same place on the same cylinder several times. I will post pics of HG
        1993 E30 Vert/Turbo/MS/Borbet BS


        Originally posted by anabolice30
        Oh well, not like I could scoop any of the chicks in this thread. My e30 is still on bottlecaps..

        Comment


          #5
          Do you and the guy you got the kit from have different octane ratings?
          Could very well be just the tune. Don't remedy it by or-ringing the block.
          Have someone look over your tune or pay to have it properly done! It's the most important part of your build; budget build or high performance quality build can so be destroyed with an improper tune.

          1991 325iS turbo

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by .FUDD. View Post
            But would a bad tune cause the headgasket to fail in the same place on the same cylinder several times. I will post pics of HG
            Yes cause with ARP Studs and a Fel pro headgasket you should be fine to 20+PSI EASY with the right tune.

            I personally ran a Fel Pro gasket and metric blues at 18PSI with no issues. I do however spend a lot of time making sure my tune is spot on.

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you guys for the comments, I have posted a pic of the headgasket and everytime they pop they look identical to this, I do understand that the tune is KEY and will be handling that issue once financials come around, It just sucks it is my daily driver and hard to take my time while not having a vehicle. Im currently looking for a cheap DD so that i can spend that extra time on it and get this figured out.

              I have always ran 93 octane in the car since i put the kit on and i believe that is what the PO had it tuned on. Regardless that is what it will be tuned on in the future.

              Also i purchased the ARP headstuds from the PO, and since i have had to torque and dissasemble 3-4 times and always torquing with arp lube and to 75 ft lbs. do you think these arp studs are tired? it is way more times then i would like but I'm not looking to buy another set if its not a concern.

              again thanks guys for all the input
              1993 E30 Vert/Turbo/MS/Borbet BS


              Originally posted by anabolice30
              Oh well, not like I could scoop any of the chicks in this thread. My e30 is still on bottlecaps..

              Comment


                #8
                The tune is key. I would take away a few degrees of timing up top to start off with. If you come down this way we can go through some pulls and adjust your maps. (A six pack for payment is enough for me. You'd be the 4th turbo car I've street tuned.)

                To start, post up your MSQ. How is your boost controlled? Is it only wastegate spring? Many questions will be answered with the MSQ file, so do that first.
                '84 318i M10B18 147- Safari Beige
                NA: 93whp/90ftlbs, MS2E w/ LC, 2-Step
                Turbo: 221whp/214ftlbs, MS3x flex @ 17psi

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by .FUDD. View Post
                  Also i purchased the ARP headstuds from the PO, and since i have had to torque and dissasemble 3-4 times and always torquing with arp lube and to 75 ft lbs. do you think these arp studs are tired?
                  Corky Bell in Maximum boost states that reusing head fasteners more than 3 times is pushing it however I live in Ventura where ARP's main office is and everyone and there mother is running them here on everything and have reused sets countless times with no issues. I do however recall ARP recommending 60ft Lbs and the general consensus on a number of boards coming to the conclusion that 70ft lbs is on the high side.

                  I just hope you have never tried to install via the torque to yield procedure like other bozos on here have.;)




                  Comment


                    #10
                    My car was doing the same thing. Even after O ringing the block. Don't waste time with that, just get it tuned. Mine likes the afrs in the 10s on 91 octane.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Why cyl 3? Has anyone mentioned an injector out of spec just one that cyl?
                      -----------------
                      89 M50B28 turbo
                      LINKY
                      -----------------

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by ColdAsLife View Post
                        I do however recall ARP recommending 60ft Lbs and the general consensus on a number of boards coming to the conclusion that 70ft lbs is on the high side.

                        The documentation from the arp's I just installed in my ix said 70 ft-lbs, so I don't see how that could be too high.
                        Originally posted by priapism
                        My girl don't know shit, but she bakes a mean cupcake.
                        Originally posted by shameson
                        Usually it's best not to know how much money you have into your e30

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by obrian View Post
                          My car was doing the same thing. Even after O ringing the block. Don't waste time with that, just get it tuned. Mine likes the afrs in the 10s on 91 octane.

                          AFRs in the 10 is not a good idea, there is something seriously wrong with your ignition map(or wideband) if you need 10AFR to not blow a head gasket.
                          11.5-12.2AFR works just fine even at 20psi. Fuel is just being wasted and is hurting performance. How much boost are you running?


                          7speedshop.com

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Northern View Post
                            The documentation from the arp's I just installed in my ix said 70 ft-lbs, so I don't see how that could be too high.





                            High is a relative statement, and 70 ft lbs is relatively high compared to 62 or 60 ft lbs. People also torque their metric blues to 80 ft lbs when their tensile strength is compromised at 68 ft lbs and have had good results. To each their own but just reporting what I have witnessed during my research. :D

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Nutzy View Post
                              Why cyl 3? Has anyone mentioned an injector out of spec just one that cyl?
                              I'm quoting this because it's a very good point.
                              '84 318i M10B18 147- Safari Beige
                              NA: 93whp/90ftlbs, MS2E w/ LC, 2-Step
                              Turbo: 221whp/214ftlbs, MS3x flex @ 17psi

                              Comment

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