s54 no crank issue

[two240s]

Finally getting to the point of firing up my swap. Having a no crank issue...no clicks or anything

88 m3 using andrews adapter harness
zf320 with e36 m3 starter

All other electrical on the car works fine
12v at terminal 30 on the starter

With the terminal 50 disconnected I have 12v to ground with key in the ON position and START position

Terminal 50 connected shows 0v with key in the ON/START position

Jumped the solenoid and starter kicks over fine

What am missing?

Should the wire on terminal 50 have power in the on AND start position?

[two240s]

I had the terminal 50 and 30 confused in my head. Edited original post for clarity


anyone?

[YosemiteSam]

On the starter you should read battery voltage on the 50 in the Start position ONLY regardless of if it is connected or not. The 50 is the B+ feed to the starter solenoid, when it gets B+ the starter will crank. Based on your description it sounds like you have some wiring problems. What DMM are you using? The fact that you are reading 0V when it is connected and 12V when it is disconnected is strange.

[two240s]

On the starter you should read battery voltage on the 50 in the Start position ONLY regardless of if it is connected or not. The 50 is the B+ feed to the starter solenoid, when it gets B+ the starter will crank. Based on your description it sounds like you have some wiring problems. What DMM are you using? The fact that you are reading 0V when it is connected and 12V when it is disconnected is strange.

DMM? multimeter?....a radio shack one that I've used for years

I know...I'm really confused. Another strange thing is that when I disconnected the 50 terminal and checked for voltage with the key turned, the fuel pump would run constantly instead of just priming

[Andrew325is]

Can you post photos of your wiring of the starter? Do you have your grounds connected? Which fuel pump relay are you using?

[two240s]

EKP module
grounds are all connected. New chassis ground

[gobuffs]

Little black wire goes to the pole on the top in that pic. The pole that the black wire is on now goes to the battery. Assume the red wire goes to the alternator.

[two240s]

Little black wire goes to the pole on the top in that pic. The pole that the black wire is on now goes to the battery. Assume the red wire goes to the alternator.

The big pole that the little black wire is connected to is connected to the little pole next to it. Shouldn't matter

[Andrew325is]

Yeah, that's correct. You can crimp a smaller ring terminal onto the one from the adapter harness if you want to put it on the small 30h terminal (I put a bigger one on it in case you used the S54 starter), but yeah it doesn't matter.

Is the starter known to be good? You might want to go through everything like you were installing it to make sure everything's connected. Has EWS been disabled in the ECU? And you have all 5 connectors on it? Is your battery fully charged? You might want to try another one. Is your DME relay good? Can you hear it click if someone turns on the ignition? Have you checked all your fuses?

[two240s]

Yeah, that's correct. You can crimp a smaller ring terminal onto the one from the adapter harness if you want to put it on the small 30h terminal (I put a bigger one on it in case you used the S54 starter), but yeah it doesn't matter.

Is the starter known to be good? You might want to go through everything like you were installing it to make sure everything's connected. Has EWS been disabled in the ECU? And you have all 5 connectors on it? Is your battery fully charged? You might want to try another one. Is your DME relay good? Can you hear it click if someone turns on the ignition? Have you checked all your fuses?

starter is brand new, it also turns when I jump the solenoid
I've triple/quadruple checked all connections at this point
EWS has been disabled by gpeterson and it's fully connected
battery is brand new and fully charged/on a tender
DME relay clicks....fuel pump primes and throttle bodies move
Fuses are all good....triple checked

None of that would explain the voltage at On and Start positions either

[gpeterson]

EWS definitely has nothing to do with it - car will crank without EWS delete or without a DME.

I'm not familiar with Andrew's E30 adapter harness but assume the path is the same here (E30 ETM, manual transmission):

[Andrew325is]

Yep, the adapter harness makes it wired the same. Terminal 50 goes to C101 pin 18 and terminal 30h goes to C101 pin 15. You can check those for continuity with a multimeter. There isn't much on the adapter harness that would affect starting. Basically pin 18 on the C101 wire to the starter and the fuel pump relay wiring which goes to the fuel pump via C101 pin 13. The other stuff is for the instrument cluster lights and gauges, and things like the sport button and OBD2 port.

[two240s]

OK....so apparently my car is wired like an early 87 M3. Build date of 7/87. Didn't realize there was a wiring change. Unloader relay wiring is completely different

This post explains the problem I'm having with having voltage at terminal 50 in the ON and START positions

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=172047

So I'll work on that today and get that part of the equation sorted. The problem I'm still not understanding, is why I'm getting 12v at the terminal 50 wire when it's disconnected. When it's connected to the starter it will not show any voltage with the key turned...

If I put 12v directly to terminal 50 the starter works and turns over the engine just fine

[two240s]

OK....think I found my problem. On the back side of the c200 ignition plug...pin 10...should be a black/yellow wire. I have a black/yellow/white stripe wire. And....it's not plugged into anything! The black/yellow wire that is supposed to be there is hanging above the plug taped up.


This is a pic of the plug on the end of the wire coming off of pin 10. Anyone ever seen this plug?


Whats still very confusing is the car ran and started fine when I pulled it into the garage and pulled the engine. Not sure how it was starting with this (starter trigger) not connected to anything

[FredK]

Weird. I haven't seen a BK/WT/YL wire in an E30 before. Is this an early E30 M3? So that connector goes from C200 pin 10, and terminates with that connector? Does it look like there's a corresponding connector anywhere else?