Standing Rock vs Dakota pipeline

[mrsleeve]

Also on that note, all 3 sites in IA are repaired and ready to go. Didn't delay anything one little bit......

[marshallnoise]

Yeah, decay. You aren't coming across as someone who has a handle on their emotions or a handle on reason. You just come across as childish and selfish.

There was a book I read as a kid that I didn't realize was an environmentalist manifesto called "The Monkey Wrench Gang." I enjoyed it in 5th grade. Then I got older and realized what they were trying to do and how they were doing it. Destroying the environment in order to save the environment is just fucking nuts. The math don't check.

[decay]

Your method, and philosophy adoption is not going to affect change. I am all for peaceful and lawfull protest. I may need to take part in it some day. But your hurting your own cause with your current course of action.

ok i'll reiterate (one more time...)-

i took no hostile or destructive action out at SR. i went out when the arctic snap hit and since i had rented a pretty nice truck and had tools with me, i got put on construction detail.

i do the "leave no trace" thing; my personal garbage bag stayed in the back of the truck and came back to california with me.

that is non-violent direct action, the best way i'm capable of doing it.

i'm just saying i don't necessarily find too much fault with the actors in this event. they're having their land rights violated.

[mrsleeve]

^
We are not questioning your personal actions, as those are consistent with a more acceptable method of protest. We are questing your defense of willful, deliberate acts of destruction of property with the intent to cause great environmental harm, by your like minded fellow protesters.

The Indians did not have their land rights violated (in this instance), they were greedy, didnt think the shipping company had any other option and tried to extort far more than a fair price for their section of ROW for this project, and GOT NOTHING for their efforts. So they played the race card, and got all the simpletons to rush to the aid of the poor Indians with out questioning anything. I mean really why are your protester buddies not having ANY effect on the progress of the project I have been on since oct. Oh there is not a "oppressed" and "ignored" minority community to make sensational headlines in the media and get the POTUS to step in and ignore the rule of law and the approval of his own regulatory agencies to make big ol showing for the cameras.

If you want to discuss the treatment of the natives in the past, and how their continued dependency on the hand outs from the govt keep them in their shitholes today then that is a topic for a different thread. I urge you to take off your rose tinted glasses you view the world with, and put on some skinny jeans in favor of the social justice warrior knee pads, before we start that conversation.

[naplesE30]

Just out of curiosity; who would have profited from the pipeline had the SR tribe agreed to terms. By me, the Seminole Tribe has a ton of money..... casinos and Hard Rock Hotel/Casinos. However, if you go onto their reservation it is undoubtedly poor. How is the money dispersed? What type of economic model is used on most reservations? I am genuinely curious now. Open to be educated on what exactly keeps many natives in the poor state many are in. Maybe a good topic for a different thread.

[mrsleeve]

short answer, Generations of cradle to grave 100% entitlements/handouts...

As to who would profit, likely those closest to those at the top of the tribes power structure would have gotten the most benefit from the influx of cash.

Some res's, the inhabitants are allowed to own land, others you just occupy someplace as the tribe owns it communally, there for is no reason to put up nice dwellings since its not really yours its communal property.

[rhE-30]

It's not exactly the MO of most Native Americans to own extravagant material possessions. You know, Mother Earth, and spirituality.

[marshallnoise]

It's not exactly the MO of most Native Americans to own extravagant material possessions. You know, Mother Earth, and spirituality.

You think they still adhere to that? Before white men showed up, they were slaughtering each other for territory and resources, albeit limited.

[decay]

You think they still adhere to that?

uh, much more than any other major demographic in america... yes, they do.

[marshallnoise]

uh, much more than any other major demographic in america... yes, they do.

I guess that explains the casinos.

[decay]

I guess that explains the casinos.

...because since we already got rid of most of their economic opportunities, we should get rid of their one good shot at tourism, too?

you do know that white people also build casinos, right? are you familiar with a little city called vegas?

[marshallnoise]

...because since we already got rid of most of their economic opportunities, we should get rid of their one good shot at tourism, too?

you do know that white people also build casinos, right? are you familiar with a little city called vegas?

And that blows the hole through your idea that they aren't materialistic. Basic survival doesn't require running casinos. They are allowed to leave the reservation you know.

EDIT: You realize that the advent of western culture showing up on these shores rendered their way of life moot. "Economic opportunities," like what? Hunting, gathering? Trading didn't even occur until white man showed up and showed them how to do it.

[mrsleeve]

You think they still adhere to that? Before white men showed up, they were slaughtering each other for territory and resources, albeit limited.

Why would put up something nice. when you could piss off the elders and they can kick you out and put thier nephew in it.

[decay]

And that blows the hole through your idea that they aren't materialistic. Basic survival doesn't require running casinos. They are allowed to leave the reservation you know.

with each subsequent post, you show more of your ignorance.

i'd encourage you to actually *visit* them and some of your preconceptions might be changed.

EDIT: You realize that the advent of western culture showing up on these shores rendered their way of life moot. "Economic opportunities," like what? Hunting, gathering? Trading didn't even occur until white man showed up and showed them how to do it.

factually incorrect. they had trading and currency, just not paper bills and coins. your racism is showing.

[marshallnoise]

with each subsequent post, you show more of your ignorance.

i'd encourage you to actually *visit* them and some of your preconceptions might be changed.



factually incorrect. they had trading and currency, just not paper bills and coins. your racism is showing.

Racism? LMAO

rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun

1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
   "a program to combat racism"
   synonyms:racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism "Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"
   
   
   
   
   
   • the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
     noun: racism
     "theories of racism"
     
     
   
   
   
   
   

I never said white man was superior. What I said was their way of life went the way of the dodo bird. Entirely different.