Track Car suspension Advice MCS / JRZ / etc

[GThomas]

Hey guys,

So I am back in the game and starting the building out of my new shell.

I was debating going to the next level above Ground Control / Koni setup and have been scouring over info and prices of MCS / JRZ and Ohlins setups.

Can anyone out there give me some advice on these setup with an e30. I know there's info out but I wanted to see what the latest offerings were. Are these premium setups overkill? What the best matching option are as some are just shocks that still need to be paired to a coilover.

Should I just stick with a new GC setup and save money?

Not looking to go full remote res just yet. But DA would be nice.

This car will be track only.

[Jb325is]

I disagree, but see where you're coming from. In my opinion, if you're looking to become a quicker/better driver and learn about chassis setup and dampers, its a no brainer to go with a premium shock if you can afford it. I don't see premium dampers as overkill, more of a known quantity that you can grow into. There are a few of us out there running MCS stuff, they offer amazing support, and there are some BMW guys working there that can give specific setup advice. Check out the MCS 2-way non-remotes

SE30 is amazing for learning racecraft, but the suspension setup doesn't give you any adjustability and is pretty damn soft/sloppy. Why put street car shocks on a car that wont be driven on the street?

[matthugie]

I agree with the previous post that unless you're already decently well experienced and trying to win trophies/contingencies then pimpy shocks are overkill.

That said, I do have MCS on my E36 and once I got it dialed in has been the best feeling suspension I've ever driven. They're the 2-way non-remotes, and the way they absorb bumps or just uneven pavement is incredible. When you make an adjustment you can feel it immediately without having to make wild swings in settings.

[Pavlo]

If you can afford to, absolutely get the high end coilover set. The fact that you drive it on the street justifies it even more as they are way smoother than the low end sets, even with much higher spring rates. MCS/JRZ will also outlast pretty much anything and retain their value in the process.
JRZ 2-way non-remote are twin tube, and though they are very good, they do run hotter because the inner tube is covered up and also has to use a smaller piston seal so may wear quicker than a mono tube of equivalent build quality. They have two adjustment mechanisms so more seals to fail.
And although I am MCS biased and run a set on my e36, they really do have the most advantages. The 2-way non-remotes are mono tube with a single adjustment knob. The fact that they are in the US also means that if you have an issue or damaged one, a repair won't take forever.

The advice to use crappier dampers based on driving level is silly. If you ever hit a curb at the wrong place at the track and your Koni can't cope with it, you fly off and can potentially cost yourself way more than what you saved with cheaper suspension. So the fancier stuff is more of an added security than anything else. Plus at some point you'll start wondering if you can't improve because of your driving talent or if you have exceeded your suspension. Then you have to sell your GC that depreciated a bunch and buy the fancy stuff.

My outlook on these things is to get the best that you can afford to. The better the damper, that better it performs at absolutely everything.

[Jb325is]

No need to take this in a negative direction. This is a good conversation to have here and there are a lot of people that could have a lot of good input. Don't get butthurt because everyone doesn't agree with you. We all come from different backgrounds, I get that you race and that's really cool. I think Pro3 is a great class and I wish we had it over here.

I am not a very experienced or quick driver yet, but I come from the other side of it- doing setups and working with feedback from some very talented drivers in some well prepared cars to tune on stuff. I can tell you for a fact that we would be wasting our time if we were running around tuning on Koni's. So for me, I'm getting quicker as a driver and also learning to think about and feel setup changes from the drivers seat which is a new experience, thats why we went for MCS's when building our race car. I share the car with some friends also, one is a member here and he probably has pro level pace but doesn't have much of a feel for setup yet (getting there). I think he could probably run similar lap times on GC's but I do think it would be a hell of a lot sketchier and there really wouldn't be a whole lot you could do to make the car more comfortable at the limit.

Pavlo knows more about this stuff than I do, and probably more about dampers than anyone else here.

EDIT: Some ninja editing/deleting went down in here and now my post doesn't make sense

[Pavlo]

^^^ Completely agree with that and thanks! A really good driver can be really fast on the cheapest of coilovers, but how much effort and risk taking is involved would not be justifiable for us mortals that track shiny cars.
This entire forum exists because we all like to modify our cars to enjoy them. If you can afford to get a nice set of dampers that you will enjoy on the street and track, I really think you should.

And to contribute more to the topic, high end coilovers are worth every penny. The biggest "feature" you get is the no compromise experience. My daily E36 is on 730/800 lb springs and it is still smoother than the common brands.

And something to consider with MCS is getting the singles. They are smoother on the street (vs 2 way non-remote) and the internals are identical to the remote canister kits aside the rear shaft, and the main pistons on the 2W/3W put the adjustment range a little higher up on rebound to be more suited for high spring rates. As you and your car progress you can upgrade to canisters. Hope this helps with your decisons.

[TobyB]

Absolutely no front- running Pro3 car runs an inexpensive damper.

Jus' sayin'.

I'd talk to Hank at Advanced Auto Fab about sway bars.

t

[GThomas]

Thanks for the input guys.

If I were to do MCS, who is the best distributor I could work with to build out the coilover? What rates would you run? 550/750? Should i go for helper spring setup? Also this car will not be driven on the street ever and will have solid bushings in most spots.

I could try to salvage the coil sleeves and springs from my wrecked car. I know that everything except the drivers side should be okay.

[Jb325is]

I would talk to alcollela70-something on here. He works at MCS, and you'd want to go straight through them regardless. I would do coilover rear as well, we're converting to that now on our car

[GThomas]

I would talk to alcollela70-something on here. He works at MCS, and you'd want to go straight through them regardless. I would do coilover rear as well, we're converting to that now on our car

Would you convert all to 5 lug or stay 4? need to decide before i start buying bushings and refresh everything.

[GThomas]

Also looking to get solid bushing advice before I buy.

Here's what i was thinking

Solid Subframe and Dif kit via Turner
Derlin Solid Rtab's via Garagistic
Rear Camber / Toe weld in via AKG
Solid CABS via Bimmerworld

Suggestions?

[TobyB]

stay 4?

it's lighter.

Marginally.

Also class legal, if you ever decide to race it.

t

[TheDirtyS54Thirty]

I like these kinds of threads :) I really want some MCS one ways now

[burkey001]

I'll 3rd the MCS.

I run 2 way remotes and I am amazed how composed the car is.
I upgraded from a high base, two way AST dampers, and the difference is not huge but definitely noticeable.
Car feels 'non plussed' pretty much regardless of what I happen to be doing with it.

Pricey start, but you wont need to buy anything else.