What to do about a scamming r3v member?

[marek|steezkal]

I saved all the pm's in word form so that it's easy to read. I still have all the pm's too. Anyone is free to have my password. Should i just copy and paste the conversation here?

[JasonC]

Don't tell anyone your password, just copy/paste the conversation.

[XwalkerX]

from the research i did he moved from socal to colorado i think otherwise i would have no problem paying this jerk a visit

[george graves]

yeah I try to not use paypal unless its sent as a gift.
that way they have no way of doing stuff like this.

What?!?!? You mean NOT sent as a gift. Never send money as a gift for parts unless you're bros. Even then, unless it's a +$100 item, I'd rather just pay the fees so I don't have to go out of my way to print a shipping label.

That and if you receive too much money as a "gift" paypal will get all up in your grill about it.(never had that happen - but that's what people say)

[marek|steezkal]

So this is every message taken from our R3Vlimited PM's. There are also some emails which mostly talk about shipping documents and tracking numbers; plus further messages asking for the wheels back after his chargeback was complete. It looks like the pictures did not paste correctly so I will have to save them from the PM's and link them here from my photobucket account. Or I will just screenshot the messages.

He acts so dissatisfied and states that he can't run these wheels where he lives because "they wouldn't last half a winter". But considering how he first wanted to keep them and get reduced price and then filing a chargeback to get all his money back and is now ignoring me and keeping my wheels, tells me all of it was BS to get a free set of wheels. I spoke with Paypal and they told me that if he gets the money back, then he is required to return the goods. If he tries to keep both, it is theft. However, Paypal tells me that they were not responsible for returning his money and making sure he shows proof of return and that it is my responsibility.

Even if the wheels really were junk and not as I described them, he should still send them back to me since he got every penny back. This is really frustrating because these Apex wheels really were in good condition and I never even once installed them on my car. I decided on not purchasing tires and sell these because my wife was going to lose her job.

Sorry, I may just be venting right now but please tell me if I was in any wrong or if you have any advice on how to proceed with this situation, please let me know.

4/2/15 10:40AM Marek Stejskal: I have a hyper silver set in 8/10 condition. One of the wheels has a small rash spot but not deep. They already have BMW center caps too.

4/2/15 10:46AM Lawrence: Any tires on them? How much do you want shipped to 60515? Pics?

Thanks,
Lawrence

4/2/15 11:01AM Marek Stejskal: No tires. Maybe $750 range, I'll have to see how much shipping would be. These are the only pics I have on my phone. I could take more when I get home later.










4/2/15 12:25PM Lawrence: I'm interested, but $700 shipped is probably the most I'd be willing to do for used wheels. I can get these new from APEX for $850 shipped. Let me know if you can meet that price.

Lawrence

4/2/15 1:16PM Marek Stejskal: Unless you got a hookup they are $1000 new plus shipping on top of that which was about $80 to Colorado. If you can really get them for 850 I would just get new.

4/6/15 4:28PM Lawrence: Do you think you could price out shipping for me to 60515?

Thanks,
Lawrence

4/7/15 9:20AM Marek Stejskal: Ground would be $60 and about 1 week delivery.

4/7/15 9:24AM Lawrence: Could you do $775 shipped?

4/7/15 9:46AM Marek Stejskal: I think $775 would work for me.

4/7/15 10:01AM Lawrence: What's your paypal?
4/7/15 10:03AM Lawrence: Do you have a better pic of the curbed wheel? The wheels are for my girlfriend's car and she wants to know before we buy them.

4/7/15 10:27AM Marek Stejskal: This is the only rash spot. It's just a graze and not a gash so its not very noticeable standing back. Let me know if you are still interested, they are gaining interest on a another page locally.


4/7/15 11:06AM Marek Stejskal: I have an offer for $800 picked up locally. I will do $800 shipped for you since you were first. Let me know, I can probably ship these out tomorrow.

4/7/15 11:12AM Lawrence: What's your paypal?

4/7/15 11:16AM Marek Stejskal: Gift to czkid23@hotmail.com with your delivery address in a message.

4/7/15 11:24AM Lawrence: All right, payment coming over soon from my girlfriend's account. Please send me the tracking number once you have them out.

4/7/15 11:48AM Marek Stejskal: Received thank you! I will hopefully have them out tomorrow at noon CO time. I will pack them up good today after work.
4/8/15 9:19AM Marek Stejskal: The carrier requires a phone number for the delivery address. Can you provide one, either yours or Kristel's?

Thanks,
Marek

4/8/15 9:31AM Lawrence: 408-834-0775

4/8/15 10:41AM Marek Stejskal: Shipnex tracking #: 1087030302
UPS tracking #: 1Z E8R 083 03 9869 4542

4/8/15 10:43AM Lawrence: Thanks!
4/14/15 6:33PM Lawrence: Hey,
I just had a chance to unpack the wheels and have a look at them. They're in much worse condition than what I was led to believe. There isn't a lick of clear coat left on any of the wheels. It looks as if someone cleaned these wheels with a scotch brite pad--there are hash marks all over.

I live in a climate where there is salt on the roads half the year--what's left of the finish on these wheels wouldn't last half a winter in this state. The curb rash and small nicks here and there I can deal with based on our agreed price since you disclosed those flaws, but not the condition of the paint work.

How do you propose we resolve this?


Lawrence

4/15/15 8:55AM Marek Stejskal: You could have asked for more pictures before sending the payment so quickly. I've had several people look at them in person and no one complained about the paint but were actually surprised of the condition for being used. They are USED wheels.


4/15/15 9:53AM Lawrence: You kept going on about how there were local buyers interested and the implication was that I had to pay as soon as possible. I wanted to jump on the deal before you sold them to someone else and even paid you the extra $25 to get them.

They're used wheels, but you failed to disclose the full condition of the wheels. The people that looked at them have probably never owned Apex wheels before and did not know what the finish is supposed to look like. $800 shipped for wheels that were $1000 new is top dollar for used wheels, and I would expect the condition to be as what you described -- one curb rash, and some nicks here and there expected on used wheels. These wheels have no clear coat on them and some of the aluminum underneath is exposed in some places--the scratches in the paint are deep when you look at them up close. I bought these wheels for my girlfriend and she is very disappointed as am I.

I've checked with some local paint shops, and the cost to refinish these wheels would be around $300. Obviously, it would be unfair to ask for $300 from you since they are used, but I think it would be fair to split the cost of refinishing. If you think you can refund $150 for the poor condition of the wheels, then we're good.

Exposed aluminum:


All of the wheels look like this with the hash marks and dull finish:


Lawrence

4/15/15 10:02AM Marek Stejskal: I mean I'll refund you $75. To say there is no clear coat is a large exaggeration. And these are highly sought after wheels that are NLA in some color options and heavy back ordered for the others. Apex will be dropping their 4x100 so these will be money someday.

This is not a premium price as you look at wheel sales in the E30 tax market reaching $2000-$3000 for 15's and 16's in FAR worse condition.

I'm sorry but I won't refund more than $75. I am not trying to be a bad guy or anything.

4/15/15 10:20AM Lawrence: There is absolutely zero clear coat -- I've detailed dozens of cars and know what clear coat and base coats feel like when I run my fingers over it. The center hub area next to the lug holes has plenty of clear coat, but not the spokes and lip area. Like I said, these wheels look like they were cleaned with abrasive scotch brite pads or a stiff brush.

I understand it might've been an oversight, and I'm not saying you purposely deceived me. But the finish was not what I had expected based on your description, and $75 barely covers the cost of refinishing one wheel and is not a fair offer. Like I said, if you can do $150, then we don't have a problem. Think of it this way--if I turned around and sold these wheels and disclosed that there is extensive clear coat damage and chipped paint exposing the aluminum underneath, I wouldn't get a dollar more than $600 for them.

Lawrence

5/6/15 10:06AM Marek Stejskal: What's this chargeback all about? Do you just want your $150?

7/2/15 9:35AM Marek Stejskal: Hello,

The credit card company has decided the charge back case PP-003-892-306-127 in your favor. The money is returned to you and therefore, please return the wheels back to the following address:

Marek Stejskal
2577 Winter Park St.
Loveland, CO 80538
USA

It is your responsibility to cover any charges for packing and shipment to return to seller. The wheels are expected to be in the same condition as when they were originally sent to you.

Thanks,
Marek

[pandaboo911]

Not to be a douche but you never ask for payment as gift. That automatically puts you in a bad light because you're trying to avoid purchase protection.

That said. They look brand new, but its an iphone pic.

I'm assuming the rash picture is the only recent one.

At this point he should return the wheels on your dime. Keeping the wheels is wrong but selling $600 wheels for $800 is wrong as well.

You're both bullshitters. Don't bullshit a bullshitter

[E30SPDFRK]

You should have disclosed the paint issues, he has every right to complain about that and his asking for half the cost of the refinishing is very fair.

However, since he got all the money back, you need to get the wheels back. Him getting the wheels and money is stealing, no matter how douchey you were. Call the police in his area and they will help you.

[DrJosh]

Send him 4 pre paid shipping boxes for him to return the wheels in. The return shipping is on you, as you wasted his time.

[reelizmpro]

4/7/15 11:06AM Marek Stejskal: I have an offer for $800 picked up locally. I will do $800 shipped for you since you were first. Let me know, I can probably ship these out tomorrow.

No good deed goes unpunished. You were trying to be a nice guy and got screwed. Should have sold it locally. There are certain things, I would only sell locally because of issues like this. It's hard to tell the exact condition of something with just pics online. Some things need to be seen in person. You may have thought the condition of the wheels were reasonable for a used set while someone else may not.

I was selling some RC90 Style 5's 17x8, all original with some curb rash for $450 almost 7 years ago. I explained that the curb rash wouldn't be an issue if you polish the lip and provided plenty of pics. Guy shows up and starts bitching about the condition and how I lied to him. He kept saying "just be honest" over and over. He was in disbelief...as was I! He said he didn't even want to make an offer. I said, that's fine...have a good day. A week later I sold the wheels for asking price. I guess he was expecting less rash, or perhaps he was waiting for me offer a discount...i dunno. I sent him plenty of pics so I don't know what he was on about. Anyway, sorry this happened to you.

[marek|steezkal]

Don't worry I learned my lesson about selling something like this locally from now on. It's lame that I had a lot of interest locally but I was trying to do right by selling them to him since we had talked first.

Also, someone's 8/10 may be someone's else's 6/10. But in this case he acted like they were in such poor condition that he couldn't even use them. If all that stuff he was saying was true then why is he not returning them to me? He asked for money back, completed a chargeback, and now has disappeared with the wheels. It's clear this person is not trustworthy.

This biggest point here is that I could have told him I was selling him mint AC Schnitzers and but sent him bottle caps. But him getting every penny back, he would still be required to return then to me. And this I have confirmed with Paypal's chargeback department.

I guess it was a good learning experience after all but I just hope this guy is done getting free parts from r3v members.

[KIRIEIW]

4/15/15 10:20AM Lawrence: There is absolutely zero clear coat -- I've detailed dozens of cars and know what clear coat and base coats feel like when I run my fingers over it. The center hub area next to the lug holes has plenty of clear coat, but not the spokes and lip area. Like I said, these wheels look like they were cleaned with abrasive scotch brite pads or a stiff brush.

I understand it might've been an oversight, and I'm not saying you purposely deceived me. But the finish was not what I had expected based on your description, and $75 barely covers the cost of refinishing one wheel and is not a fair offer. Like I said, if you can do $150, then we don't have a problem. Think of it this way--if I turned around and sold these wheels and disclosed that there is extensive clear coat damage and chipped paint exposing the aluminum underneath, I wouldn't get a dollar more than $600 for them.

Lawrence

5/6/15 10:06AM Marek Stejskal: What's this chargeback all about? Do you just want your $150?

You should have responded to the 4/15/15 message. Getting no response from you gave him the perfect opportunity and filed the case. Probably told PayPal he had gotten no response on your be half and they sided with him. Like the others where saying, "Don't bullshit a bullshitter". I'd be pissed if you didn't disclose the scotch bight pad marks, and would expect you to pay shipping back if you wanted a full refund. That being said I hope this guy contacts you back, that's wrong on his part as well.

[marek|steezkal]

There was no scotch bright damage. Just your usual light swirl marks from cleaning over time that can only be seen in certain lights if you know to look for it. This was exaggerated to help his case.

Regardless, he needs to send them back.