Relocating brake master cylinder E30 v8 swap

[st.petebiodiesel]

One on the biggest challenges of the E30 v8 swap is the brake system. The manual brakes with a pedal box cost more than i paid for the engine/transmission. Relocating the booster/master cylinder and abs pump is too much work in my opinion.
Here are some pictures showing E30s and how much room is available.








Massives booster delete kit has the right idea. Remove the booster and use a smaller bore MC, it even moves the location of the master cylinder slightly. Sounds great right? Well it doesn't fit the m6x v8, but its sooooooo close.

Here is my solution. Remove your stock Booster, MC, and brake pedal. You will not be reusing your booster or MC. To reduce your brake pedal pressure you will need to purchase a smaller diameter MC. I got a 17mm MC from a VW rabbit mk1, as suggested by massive for stock brakes. If your running anything larger than stock brakes you should get a 19mm MC from a porsche 911 1987 and older. Both of these cars came with unboosted brakes.
Next find you a thick piece of metal. I snagged some 7075t6 .125" from work. You're going to want some thick/strong material since your MC will be bolted to this.











Moving the MC 2" over and 1" up will give you just enough clearance to squeeze in an M60.
This is as far over as you can go because of the bracket for the clutch MC behind the firewall.
In my next post i will explain how i modified the brake pedal and fabed a pushrod.

[st.petebiodiesel]

Some good pics of E30s showing amount of clearence between master cylinder and valve cover.

[MonkeyMadness]

One on the biggest challenges of the E30 v8 swap is the brake system. The manual brakes with a pedal box cost more than i paid for the engine/transmission. Relocating the booster/master cylinder and abs pump is too much work in my opinion.


Moving the MC 2" over and 1" up will give you just enough clearance to squeeze in an M60.
This is as far over as you can go because of the bracket for the clutch MC behind the firewall.
In my next post i will explain how i modified the brake pedal and fabed a pushrod.

No offence but the first paragraph has me questioning if you should continue with the build...
The next has me questioning the safety of the build. If "too hard or too expansive" is the deciding factor for the safety of yourself, passengers, and innocent people on the streets I'll ask you to refer back to my first statement. again No offence

YOLO

[delamaize]

No offence but the first paragraph has me questioning if you should continue with the build...
The next has me questioning the safety of the build. If "too hard or too expansive" is the deciding factor for the safety of yourself, passengers, and innocent people on the streets I'll ask you to refer back to my first statement. again No offence

YOLO

you took the words right out of my mouth. Do it right, or don't do it at all.

[Old city bimmer]

Just read this and my only words are WTF. Suicidal ?

[e30_302]

Any details on that fluid reservoir? I could use that...

[jalopi]

the only thing i don't like about this is the material thickness - i personally used 1/4" plate on my car and that was with mild steel. 1/8" aluminum, regardless of the alloy, is just a bit sketchy in my mind

other than that this is pretty much the same as a massive booster delete. not sure why so many people are busting OP's balls

[st.petebiodiesel]

The reservoir is a VW rabbit/scirocco mk1 p/n 867611301B

To those of you who are sceptical i invite you to research Massive brakes bmw e30/e36 booster delete kit. Booster deletes are pretty common on racing cars for a better pedal feel. Yes the pedal will be harder to push but will still generate enough pressure to lock the wheels up. Many people who complain about stiff pedal or uneffective braking are using the stock 23mm MC that was inteded to be used with a booster. Using a smaller 17mm MC that was used on a similar sized car with similar sized brakes with no booster will give me slightly longer travel but less pedal force. I have done extensive research on the booster delete.
I didn't want to use the garagistic pedal box because $175 for the box,$200 for the pedals, and $225 for 3 MCs. Not to mention you have to remove the dash(not fun)
Relocating the booster/MC requires you to modify all of your pedals, move your abs motor, fabricate a fulcrum linkage, and then plumb all those lines.

With the setup im building $25 for a VW MC, $25 for the reservoir, some thick metal, and a custom brake pushrod. Your abs motor can stay, and you only have to plumb 2 lines. I'm using titanium aircraft hi lok bolts to attach my plate to the firewall and MC to the plate. If anything was to fail during braking it would likely be my drivers seat mount.

I hope this helps alleviate any concerns. However if you still have any criticism about this setup i would hope you could be more specific to what aspect of the setup you do not fancy instead of calling it suicidal or crazy.

[shiboujin]

This reminds me of my penis. Bent off to one side.

[jalopi]

shibi always delivers with dick jokes

lol. but OP seriously the only thing i can bust your balls on is material thickness. i'd personally use 1/4" minimum for aluminum, ideally 5/16 or 3/8. methinks you probably have a little bit of flex in that 1/8" plate when really stomping on the brakes

[JGood]

shibi always delivers with dick jokes

lol. but OP seriously the only thing i can bust your balls on is material thickness. i'd personally use 1/4" minimum for aluminum, ideally 5/16 or 3/8. methinks you probably have a little bit of flex in that 1/8" plate when really stomping on the brakes

I agree... I don't see anything wrong with this setup, besides the potential for firewall flex. I'd actually put a bracket in between the firewall and strut tower support. e30's tend to rust in that area, and even if not, it could still flex.

But as the OP said, Massive has been doing these booster deletes for a while, so he's probably more familiar with how strong that area is and how it reacts to stomping the brakes.

One thing I'd be cautious about, with the additional pedal travel, is that you modify your pedal box in a way that you can still have plenty of travel. I know that's one of the things I struggled with when doing mine. In the end I had more then enough room though, as I wasn't aware just how little travel the stock setup actually needs.

[1990m3]

not bad in theory, good luck on execution. Here is a site I found recently with some interesting booster eliminating products for other posters here interested in eliminating a booster

http://www.chasebays.com/chase-bays-brake-booster-eliminator-for-euro-chassis/

No affiliation

[Old city bimmer]

If you are going to build something and the first thing you realize it's too expensive. Then it's not for you. I can tell you anybody that has done a V8 swap did not do it because it was a cheap swap. And we all sure as hell didn't know what it would cost either.
Well I call it suicidal based on the material you are using. you are swapping a V8 in your car and you want to do booster delete. The amount of pressure you will require to stop will be double and using that small gauge of metal will cause a flex in the fire wall which eventually in time will fracture. I for one don't like to gamble with brake system in a car. I feel a lot more comfortable with Oem set up or with a reputable manufacturer. My life and others is important to me. My .02 cents.

Other than that keep posting...we all may learn something.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jalopi]

there seems to be alot of misinformation and interesting speculation about manual brakes going on here. so lets clear the air:

here's pretty much what an OE braking system looks like


here's an OE system, sans pedal ratio, without a booster


here's what OP is planning on using. it'll vary slightly depending on his actual pedal ratio, but not by much


obviously OP's brakes aren't exactly to OE torque specs. but rest assured, he will be able to stop the car. he'll have to slightly plan ahead for stops though, as panic stops with this setup are... interesting.

here's the setup i had, i used e46 330i brakes on all four corners. the only thing that's different is i had a .625" master vs OP's selection


some people feel the need to stay 4lug though. i get that (lol jk not really). here's why you shouldn't only do a front BBK


granted, you could tune the bias with a proportioning valve, but you're still falling short of your torque requirements

this is why i say if you're gonna do a BBK, do it on both axles


here's my take on doing a BBK to your e30: convert to e36/46 stuff. lets be honest with ourselves here; e30s are aging to the point where, in the near future, hotrodding and racing them will be impractical for 90% of us. sure, we'll keep the e30 because of its classic looks and charm, but the worry of wrecking it/ruining its value will drive us to toy with e36/46s.

case in point, here's what you'd be dealing with if you bought massives' biggest, most ballin-est set of brakes for the e36/46



i have no idea how to calculate something like this, but i'm pretty sure they'd never overheat/fade on an e30

[shiboujin]

Ever finish this brah? I can't find the res for any less than $120. Plus I there isn't a provision for the clutch fluid but I guess you can just make a separate one for that.

I'm basically doing the same thing right meow.