The Panama Papers

[BraveUlysses]

Controlled "leaks"; an old style of geopolitical warfare. Nothing new and something I'd expect is out of the the DoD and CIA play books.

Want to ruin a person's political career? Want another reason to invade a non threatening sovereign nation? Leak something.

Just something to add from the conspiratorial peanut gallery ;)

So this leak is being done by the CIA/DoD to...invade Panama?

Kershaw, seriously, why do you think more government in your life is going to improve things when more government in our lives for the past 50+ years has been the reason everything is so fucked up.
your socialist president obama jacked up tax rates, the rich are richer, federal tax receipts are at a record, and the government is still running a huge deficit every year.
the progressive liberal socialists have pretty much gotten their wishes forever and we find ourselves in a fucked up mess, and you want more?

you believe all of this and yet you're still here, white knighting for the 1%. good job on being a temporarily embarrassed millionaire for all of your life.

[nando]

hey, 1%'s don't have to worry about laws. They worked hard enough to earn their money, laundering & evading taxes is their right. Stop being so poor!

[M-technik-3]

You want to enjoy the US? Then you pay your due taxes here, no avoiding it. If you want lower tax rates go somewhere else.

Agree,

[Dozyproductions]

So this leak is being done by the CIA/DoD to...invade Panama?

:fishslap:

Critical Thinking:

the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment.


This is something you seem to just throw out the window and replace with mockery with every response for one of my posts. Can you at least see the merits to such a strategy?

We wan't to go in to Iraq, Libya... etc a smear campaign against Hussein, Gaddafi and whom ever have you. It's been documented our full on invasion of Vietnam was based on a false flag. There are DoD papers citing domestic terrorism as a strategy to forward certain foreign policies. They spy on everything you do.

Why is it so hard to believe this?? Am I missing the reason y'all take everything for face value?

[nando]

9/11 was an inside job. amirite?

[BraveUlysses]

:fishslap:

Critical Thinking:

the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment.

This is something you seem to just throw out the window and replace with mockery with every response for one of my posts. Can you at least see the merits to such a strategy?

Yes, I can see merits to it, but I generally don't ascribe to conspiracy theories. The internet is full of nutjobs and idiots (not saying you're either of those) who are first to claim conspiracy theories about literally everything so yes I have a hard time taking most people who are quick to suggest specific theories.

We wan't to go in to Iraq, Libya... etc a smear campaign against Hussein, Gaddafi and whom ever have you. It's been documented our full on invasion of Vietnam was based on a false flag. There are DoD papers citing domestic terrorism as a strategy to forward certain foreign policies. They spy on everything you do.

Why is it so hard to believe this?? Am I missing the reason y'all take everything for face value?

I'm of the opinion that we need to significantly scale back our military and squash the shitty surveillance state our government is building ASAP. Nothing good comes out of it for the average American, we haven't fought a necessary war in over half a century and have engaged in far too many questionable wars over the past 200 years.

[BraveUlysses]

9/11 was an inside job. amirite?

[mrsleeve]

I'm of the opinion that we ...... and squash the shitty surveillance state our government is building ASAP. Nothing good comes out of it for the average American, we haven't fought a necessary war in over half a century and have engaged in far too many questionable wars over the past 200 years.

strangely enough I agree with you (military is currently an all volunteer force I am all for that) The A-stan campaign was kinda nessary in my view though, but not in the kinder and gentler way we have been attempting to wage wars in the last 50 years.

The part of this whole leak thing that pisses me off the most (though I 100% expect it to be this way) is that those people in places of power telling the rest of the peasants how much of THEIR money they need to give to the govt for those same few to spend... Are the primary ones not paying "their way" its the do as I say not as I do that gets me the most

[gwb72tii]

So this leak is being done by the CIA/DoD to...invade Panama?



you believe all of this and yet you're still here, white knighting for the 1%. good job on being a temporarily embarrassed millionaire for all of your life.

defending the 1% is no different than defending anyone else. If someone you categorize as "rich" has played by the rules, there is no shame or any reason to demonize them for taking their money offshore to avoid further taxes on money already taxed/earned. they have no obligation to pay anything more than required by tax law.

if they're crooks, by all means go after them and hang them by their thumbs.

i'm not one of the 1%. never have been. wish i were and am working hard to try to get there and join.

the 1% are not undertaxed. they pay more than their fair share. you and kershaw think somehow it's unfair that someone earns enough to be in the top 1% and they ought to be taken down to make it all fair somehow. sounds a lot like the old soviet union and communist china.

[Vincent Brick]

I should have known better than to come here expecting a reasonable conversation. Nothing against r3v, its actually one of the better places I have been to in this regard, but car forums have always seemed to be filled with the most politically and socially ignorant people with the loudest voices and the hardest heads.

I think there will be minimal fallout from this, at least here in America, because regular people don't understand it, it doesn't directly effect their lives enough for them care, and such a high percentage of those who do understand will sympathize with the wealthy due to the American temporarily disgraced millionaire syndrome and misguided far-right beliefs about governmental overreach. A lot of it is going to turn out to be shady but yet technically legal, and even what illegal activity there was, we are dealing with the wealthiest people in the world essentially investigating themselves, and they will mostly be protected except for a few sorry saps that get thrown under the bus by those with far more to lose just to make it appear to the few with power who do give a shit that some menial effort was put forth to punish those involved. Its going to be the banking industry scandal just on a larger scale, people will talk about it for years, but in the grand scheme of things no one of importance will be punished, there will be only symbolic reforms, and regular, working folks will all split the tab because we're just nice people.

[nando]

except it's pretty obvious that more is going on here than simply paying the least amount of taxes that is legal. Also, these vehicles for avoiding taxes are not available to regular people - so saying it's fair because it's legal is short sighted. The rules are bent in their favor.

[Vincent Brick]

the 1% are not undertaxed. they pay more than their fair share. you and kershaw think somehow it's unfair that someone earns enough to be in the top 1% and they ought to be taken down to make it all fair somehow. sounds a lot like the old soviet union and communist china.

Except if you go back and look at the periods of the greatest property in the US economy, the 1% were taxed at far greater rates than they are today, so there is absolutely no merit to your statement that the 1% are not under-taxed. You act as though even if the wealthy are taxed at greater rates, that they aren't still going to earn amounts far, far beyond average incomes, incomes would not be leveled off as you suggest. It is a proven fact that tickle-down economics don't work, that has been determined over and over again by economists for decades, but the idea is still perpetuated by those who stand to benefit from it. Guess who fell for it?

'm not one of the 1%. never have been. wish i were and am working hard to try to get there and join.

Like I sad before, temporarily disgraced millionaire syndrome. Capitalist society has fooled you into thinking that if you do enough of their work and kiss enough of their asses that they will let you into their club one day. News flash: They won't. This right here is a huge part of your failure to see this objectively. Stop being an apologist for the wealthy just because you fell into the great American greed trap.

Your comparisons to the USSR and China are so out of line I just don't even.....

[BraveUlysses]

strangely enough I agree with you (military is currently an all volunteer force I am all for that) The A-stan campaign was kinda nessary in my view though, but not in the kinder and gentler way we have been attempting to wage wars in the last 50 years.

Afghanistan is a hole that we pour money into and gained nothing from. Whether or not they deserved it or deserved worse is debatable but the benefits to us were nothing other than another excuse to deploy our military, waste money and then forget about the vets after they get home.

defending the 1% is no different than defending anyone else. If someone you categorize as "rich" has played by the rules, there is no shame or any reason to demonize them for taking their money offshore to avoid further taxes on money already taxed/earned. they have no obligation to pay anything more than required by tax law.

I agree that there's no obligation to pay more than what is required by law.

I'm going to go ahead and point out that you're more than willing to post this drivel:

personally the middle class don't pay enough
history is not on your side

come on and explain
something north of 50% of our fellow citizens pay No tax at all, and many get money back at the same time.
everyone should have skin in the game

pretty much solidifies that you're part of the temporarily embarrassed millionaires club

i'm not one of the 1%. never have been. wish i were and am working hard to try to get there and join.

the 1% are not undertaxed. they pay more than their fair share. you and kershaw think somehow it's unfair that someone earns enough to be in the top 1% and they ought to be taken down to make it all fair somehow. sounds a lot like the old soviet union and communist china.

I'm sure you'll get there someday.

And for the record, I'm not in favor of redistribution for the sake of redistribution, so please stop putting words in my mouth.

[marshallnoise]

I don't understand why pointing out a fact (that 47% of Americans are either on the take or not contributing a dime to the functioning of their country) automatically makes you an apologist for the 1%.

Its like, I dunno, facts that are inconvenient shall remain silent. Stifling debate by attacking the messenger is shitty. Stop being shitty. Shitty person.

[nando]

That 47% barely make enough to scrape by. Those are the kind of people employed by Walmart, where they only get just enough hours to qualify as "part time" and the company encourages them to apply for food stamps. You and I are subsidizing those people, not the uber wealthy.

The bottom half of America has seen their incomes shrink for the last few decades. There's a reason they take in more than they pay out. Do you think half of all Americans would rather live paycheck to paycheck than make a bit more and have to pay higher taxes?