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    Bad misfiring after exhaust work - undriveable

    Okay, I'm in need of help as I'm running out of troubleshooting steps here. This is a long writeup so thanks for sticking with me.

    Car is an '87 325is (12/86 build date) with an M20 swapped in from a late '87 or early '88 car. I did not do the swap so only have the seller's info to go on. I have only had the car less than a month and it's been down the majority of that time so I don't have much of a baseline to know what's good and what isn't. Ran flawlessly on the test drive.

    Prior to the exhaust work I did take the car out a handful of times and it always ran great. No misfires, pulled strongly to redline. The car has an aftermarket exhaust that had an exhaust leak. The car is lowered and the exhaust was routed poorly and it was scraping the ground over everything. So getting the exhaust fixed was top of my list.

    Shortly after buying it I had a no crank situation. Discovered the car was missing the engine ground strap so I got a strap, installed it and car started like a champ. Took it to the local muffler shop and that's where this current mess all started.

    Car has a long tube header that routes into a crossover which is where the O2 sensor is installed. Aft of the crossover there was a cat that had been dragged over the pavement so many times the bottom of it was full of holes. Aft of the cat was a bolt-on exhaust coupler that connected the piping to a Magnaflow muffler at the rear. I had the muffler guy replace the entire middle section with new pipe and route it better so it isn't hanging in harm's way. So now we have long tube header into crossover and then straight exhaust pipe to the Magnaflow muffler at the rear. No more cat.

    On the drive home from the muffler shop I notice a misfire under load at higher RPM, maybe at 4k or above. It had definitely never done that in the short amount of time I had the car prior. I get home and a couple days later have some time to troubleshoot. Car started fine cold and no misfire while cold. Once warmed up it started missing again. At first only under load and at higher RPMs. The more I drove the worse it ran. I turned around to head home and it was running so poorly it stalled a couple blocks from home. Started it up, still running very rough but was able to limp home where it has been ever since.

    Current situation:
    - very rough running, at idle and with throttle input - makes no difference
    - won't hold a steady RPM
    - backfires
    - MPG gauge spikes at every misfire - the needle shoots up to the max and then heads back toward 0 until the next misfire where it spikes again
    - Temp gauge needle kind of wags a little with the misfires

    Here's what I have done to date:
    GENERAL:
    - DME is a 153
    - Installed new CPS. The original one had frayed wiring from misrouting so was suspect and needed to be replaced regardless.
    - Installed new Coolant Temp Sensor. The original one seemed to test out okay but it's a cheap part so replaced it anyway.
    - Ground connections:
    - new engine ground strap
    - G103 - looks good and connections are tight
    - G200 - looks good and connections are tight
    - G300 - Kind of hard to see but connections look good and tight
    - Battery ground connection is tight and clean on battery post and to body
    - Electrical connections:
    - C101 - pulled rubber boots on both sides of connectors, wiring looks good and clean. Inside connectors the pins all look clean with no corrosion. Sprayed contact cleaner in connectors.
    - Car has no C191 connector
    - O2 sensor - I know this has no effect on cold operating but given the connection with the exhaust work it is in my mind. Looked under car and found the wiring from the sensor was hanging on the ground and torn. I found that there was a splice in the wiring with butt connectors and they were all torn up. I repaired wiring and reconnected. I have a new one to install but haven't done that yet. Could my drive where it ran fine cold and then got steadily worse have somehow fouled things up to the point where it won't run right now?

    AIR:
    - Vacuum:
    - Installed new crankcase breather hose. Old one looked intact once I removed it.
    - Line from charcoal canister to check valve under TB was open. Check valve itself has a broken off plastic connector where the vacuum line attached so I plugged the check valve connector and also plugged line off the charcoal canister.
    - All 3 metal elbow fittings on TB were loose and would come out by hand. JB Welded fittings back into TB.
    - TB rubber boot fitting is flexible and free of cracks.
    - Valve cover had one very loose nut - tightened all of them.
    - I know I need to do a smoke test but the car runs so poorly I'm not sure I could make it to a shop. I'm trying to get it stabilized enough that I can get this done.
    - ICV - buzzes and vibrates with key on. Sprayed out with TB cleaner.
    - AFM - flap moves freely.
    - TPS:
    - Tested per Bentley - I get continuity at closed throttle - I do NOT get continuity at WOT. I have not adjusted it yet as the WOT issue should not be influencing current problem.
    - Tested voltage at TPS connector. Per Bentley it should be at least 5V, I am only getting 4.68V. Not sure if this is a big enough difference to be of concern.
    - Exhaust - considered possibility of plugged exhaust. Pulses from tailpipe are strong and when it backfires you can really feel the energy through the tailpipe. Pulled O2 sensor and left bung open thinking that might free it up if there was a restriction.

    FUEL:
    - Injector wiring doesn't look in great shape. Black wire covers are age/heat hardened. #5 connector has a frayed positive wire but it gets a consistent 12V at key on.
    - FPR - vacuum line is flexible with no cracks and no blockage.
    - Fuel pump - Pulled back seat and opened access hatch. Listened for prime sound at key on but I don’t hear anything.

    SPARK:
    - Inspected distributor cap - clean and dry inside. Contacts look good. I did not pull the rotor but the topside that I could see looked in good shape.
    - Spark plug wires - pliable and there are no cracks or damage. If I’m being picky #5 doesn’t attach to the spark plug lead as tightly as I’d like. Re-seated both spark plug ends and distributor cap ends.
    - Coil - have not tested yet.
    - Spark plugs - all 6 plugs in similar condition. Fouled with gas, smelled very gassy. Possibly some oily deposits as well. Autolite Double Platinum APP 64 plugs. Gap was set too wide according to Bentley. They were gapped to ~1.1mm. Bentley spec is 0.7mm. Re-gapped, cleaned and reinstalled. I have new plugs but have not yet installed them.

    I make one change at a time and start the car after every change. Nothing has changed how it's running. When I installed the new crankcase breather hose it seemed like it stabilized the idle but as of this morning it is back to the same old rough running at idle and with throttle input.

    I saw a thread where jlevie says that the MPG gauge spiking means the DME is not producing firing pulses for the injectors. I'm not sure how to validate this, any ideas?

    Also, am I just chasing a ghost thinking this is connected to the exhaust work? I can't figure out how it could be causing these issues but it's a strong coincidence if it isn't connected.

    If you've read all the way through I thank you. Any help on getting this sorted would be much appreciated.



    1987 325is

    --- used to haves ---
    1988 325is
    1999 540i/6/Sport
    1989 325iX
    1998 M3

    #2
    when my o2 sensor connector got water in it, my e30 would not run.
    With how you described your sensor wiring is screwed up,
    I would start there since it was running before the exhaust work was done.
    1988 325 non-letter Seta "Bronzit"
    1991 325ic "Laguna Green" (Sold)
    1993 325i "Laguna Green/Silver" (Sold)
    1998 528i "Artic Silver" m-sport(totalled by drunk driver)
    2000 528i Titansilber/gray m-sport
    2000 528i Titansilber/black m-sport(sold)
    2001 525i Anthracite m-sport(sold)
    2013 750i Black/Black m-sport "Beast"

    Comment


      #3
      borrow or buy another ecu (good time to switch to a M1.3ecu if you plan on getting it tuned). improperly grounded welding can damage electrical components.

      Comment


        #4
        I was thinking about that O2 sensor wiring as well. There are 4 wires - might you have gotten them mixed up somehow when repairing them?

        If so, the ECU would have gone from seeing no O2 signal to seeing something it does not understand ... or the possibility that the 12V O2 sensor heater wire or ground is now feeding the input to the ECU.

        Swapping the ECU would also be my next step. The "153" ECU is not as reliable as the later versions, and does not have the "stomp test" capability. If you can find an E30 friend to just swap and see if that might be the problem ... and if it is you can source an ECU fairly quickly from someone here.
        101

        The E30 collection:
        1987 325es M52 - Schwarz / Taurus Red Sport (son #2's)
        1987 325is - Delphin / Black Sport (son #3's)
        1987 325i Convertible - Triple Black
        1989 325iX Coupe - Diamondschwarz / Black Comfort
        1990 325iX Coupe - Sterling Silver / Grey Sport

        1981 Fiat 124 Spider 2000 - Green / Tan
        1998 Volvo V70 GLT - White / Tan
        1998 Volvo S70 T5 manual - White / Taupe
        2001 Ford Windstar - Silver / Grey (parts hauler)
        2006 Lexus GX470 - White / Tan (tow rig)

        Comment


          #5
          UPDATE:
          Installed new Bosch O2 sensor, part # 13231. I mistakenly believed Amazon that this was an OE fit and when it got here I saw it wasn't. The wiring wouldn't have reached even if the plug was correct. I had to extend the wiring and mate it to the stock plug. I followed the directions on a post in the DIY section here on r3v. Basically making sure that black is to black, grey is to grey, and the white wires don't matter which one is to which. Hoping that is correct.

          At any rate it did not make a difference, which follows logic since the O2 sensor should not be in the picture at cold start.

          I then installed new plugs, gapped to 0.7mm. Seems like it made a small improvement but the car still runs very rough.

          Pointing more & more toward ECU/DME as suggested. I'm in Seattle, anyone local with a spare I can swap in to test?

          Thanks,
          -Roger



          1987 325is

          --- used to haves ---
          1988 325is
          1999 540i/6/Sport
          1989 325iX
          1998 M3

          Comment


            #6
            UPDATE:
            Coil - tested per Bentley. FAILS the primary and secondary resistance test. Bentley says primary resistance should be 0.5 ohms, I get 1.1. Says secondary resistance should be 5000 ohms, I get 5560. Is this far enough out to replace coil? I see some threads here and elsewhere that say generally a multimeter isn't accurate enough to measure accurately at this level of detail.

            Fusible link - opened up and checked fusible link in trunk on positive lead. It is intact and free of corrosion.

            Relays - cleaned connectors on main, fuel pump & O2 heater relays. They all look original though so these are on the suspect list. Planning to order replacements.

            Ran through a bunch of tests at the DME connector in glovebox:

            - Main grounds - all pass
            - TPS - passes at closed position, passes at partial open, fails at WOT. This is consistent with testing at the TPS itself.
            - CPS - pass
            - CTS - pass
            - ICV - pass
            - Cylinder ID sensor - pass
            - AFM resistance - pass
            - Main relay control - pass
            - Voltage supply to DME - pass
            - Fuel pump relay control - pass
            - Fuel injector control 1,3,5 - pass
            - Fuel injector control 2,4,6 - pass
            - Evap check valve - pass
            - Starter input - pass

            So at this point I'm definitely leaning toward the theory that the exhaust welding somehow wasn't grounded properly and my DME is toast. I've got a 173 on the way, supposed to be here Wednesday.

            I decided to test ground continuity from the injector connectors to the DME connector, here's where things get a little screwy. My wiring harness is the old style so the injector connectors are all individually hardwired into the main harness. Some of the original yellow ribbon labels for injector # are missing, some are still on there. I notice that the connector on injector #3 is labeled #2. The connector on injector #2 has no label. I have not removed the injector connections since I got the car and remember prior to the exhaust work it was running fine. I decide to switch the connectors and start the car. Runs horribly, a little worse than before. When I check the ground continuity it confirms that the connector labeled #2 has continuity on the DME pin for 2,4,6 and the connector with no label that had been on injector #2 has continuity on the DME pin for 1,3,5. So what is going on here? Can the car run fine with injector connectors switched up between #2 & #3? This doesn't make any sense to me. I'm still crossing my fingers that the replacement DME is going to cure this since the wiring seems to pass all tests but this injector connector thing has thrown me for a loop.

            Help please...



            1987 325is

            --- used to haves ---
            1988 325is
            1999 540i/6/Sport
            1989 325iX
            1998 M3

            Comment


              #7
              The injectors are fired in banks of three each - so swapping #2 and #3 will not cause an issue.
              101

              The E30 collection:
              1987 325es M52 - Schwarz / Taurus Red Sport (son #2's)
              1987 325is - Delphin / Black Sport (son #3's)
              1987 325i Convertible - Triple Black
              1989 325iX Coupe - Diamondschwarz / Black Comfort
              1990 325iX Coupe - Sterling Silver / Grey Sport

              1981 Fiat 124 Spider 2000 - Green / Tan
              1998 Volvo V70 GLT - White / Tan
              1998 Volvo S70 T5 manual - White / Taupe
              2001 Ford Windstar - Silver / Grey (parts hauler)
              2006 Lexus GX470 - White / Tan (tow rig)

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by 101 View Post
                The injectors are fired in banks of three each - so swapping #2 and #3 will not cause an issue.
                Thanks 101. They're fired as a bank of 1, 3, 5 and then separately 2, 4, 6 right? So if I had 2 & 3 crossed over wouldn't those be firing at the wrong time?



                1987 325is

                --- used to haves ---
                1988 325is
                1999 540i/6/Sport
                1989 325iX
                1998 M3

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by RoDo View Post
                  Thanks 101. They're fired as a bank of 1, 3, 5 and then separately 2, 4, 6 right? So if I had 2 & 3 crossed over wouldn't those be firing at the wrong time?
                  The firing timing is not that precise. AFAIK, if you disconnect the impulse sensor from the #1 spark plug lead, it defaults to firing all 6 at once, and will keep running just fine ( I could be mistaken, however). I do know that it isn't going to make a noticeable difference whether the injectors are perfectly timed or not with the old FI that our e30's have..

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Andy.B View Post
                    The firing timing is not that precise. AFAIK, if you disconnect the impulse sensor from the #1 spark plug lead, it defaults to firing all 6 at once, and will keep running just fine ( I could be mistaken, however). I do know that it isn't going to make a noticeable difference whether the injectors are perfectly timed or not with the old FI that our e30's have..
                    Makes sense, thanks. I guess yeah, if it is firing 3 injectors at a time that means the system is designed with some pretty big tolerance in it as the air/fuel mixture is sitting there waiting for an intake valve to open.

                    I've tested everything I can think of at this point, other than fuel pressure. I guess I'll sit tight until Wednesday when my replacement ECU is supposed to show up and cross my fingers...



                    1987 325is

                    --- used to haves ---
                    1988 325is
                    1999 540i/6/Sport
                    1989 325iX
                    1998 M3

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by RoDo View Post
                      Thanks 101. They're fired as a bank of 1, 3, 5 and then separately 2, 4, 6 right? So if I had 2 & 3 crossed over wouldn't those be firing at the wrong time?
                      You're right - my bad. I was thinking of the eta where 1/2/3 and 4/5/6 are fired together.

                      On the "I" cars Bentley says that grounding pin #16 of the ECU harness fires injectors 1/3/5 and pin # 17 fires injectors 2/4/6. But as stated above - I don't believe the injector timing is very important overall.
                      101

                      The E30 collection:
                      1987 325es M52 - Schwarz / Taurus Red Sport (son #2's)
                      1987 325is - Delphin / Black Sport (son #3's)
                      1987 325i Convertible - Triple Black
                      1989 325iX Coupe - Diamondschwarz / Black Comfort
                      1990 325iX Coupe - Sterling Silver / Grey Sport

                      1981 Fiat 124 Spider 2000 - Green / Tan
                      1998 Volvo V70 GLT - White / Tan
                      1998 Volvo S70 T5 manual - White / Taupe
                      2001 Ford Windstar - Silver / Grey (parts hauler)
                      2006 Lexus GX470 - White / Tan (tow rig)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        +1 on the welding theory. I had an idle module fry during body welding on an M10 318i. I bet the new ECU has you back up and running.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by packratbimmer View Post
                          +1 on the welding theory. I had an idle module fry during body welding on an M10 318i. I bet the new ECU has you back up and running.
                          Thanks packrat. I'm running out of other ideas so I'm sure hoping that's it.



                          1987 325is

                          --- used to haves ---
                          1988 325is
                          1999 540i/6/Sport
                          1989 325iX
                          1998 M3

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Update: 173 ECU got here today, swapped in - DID NOT FIX PROBLEM.

                            It actually ran a bit worse. I let it sit and idle for a few minutes, the engine would not respond at all to throttle input. Just really bad stumbling and a very low idle (if you can call what it is doing an idle) around 500 RPM.

                            Help!

                            The one item that fails a Bentley test is the coil. I may replace that but per some other posts here on r3v it sounds like the coil is probably fine. I'm bummed and running out of ideas here.



                            1987 325is

                            --- used to haves ---
                            1988 325is
                            1999 540i/6/Sport
                            1989 325iX
                            1998 M3

                            Comment


                              #15
                              sounds like your new ecu is worse off than your old one aha.... pop it open and see if anything is burnt/shorted/smells funny/looks like mold.

                              the coil is out of spec. you should check the strength of the spark. more resistance means less current making it to the plugs (i=v/r). might as well get a new/known working coil to test.... wheee, e30s!

                              Comment

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