Machine Shop fees- What's reasonable?

[SlamedIAm]

I'm getting ready to take an 885 head to a machine shop to get ready to be installed. Off the top of my head it's going to need to be cleaned/disassembled, pressure checked, tolerances checked on valve guides/cam/journals/springs, valves and seats ground, and the mating surface skimmed.

Having no experience in this area what would be a reasonable price to pay for this? There is a local shop that came highly recommended it just seems like it would be in my best interest to get an idea of what one should expect to pay before I decide if their quote is too high/too low.

Obviously I know this is going to vary regionally etc. I'm really just looking for a ballpark. Thanks.

[e30s50dan]

Where you located? There in Raleigh area,I have some one that has done a couple heads. S50,M20 and Porsche heads. The BMW heads were around $300 each. Cleaned,springs and valves checked ,new valve guides and valves cut $300. And quick turn around

[MR 325]

$300-$400 is about right.

But more importantly, I'd go with the most recommended shop over the cheapest shop. 8)

[AndrewBird]

I paid $100 for a cleaning, pressure test and a light skim. I dropped it off disassembled with no valves or anything. I know you want more, but it should at least give you an idea.

[SlamedIAm]

$300-$400 is about right.

But more importantly, I'd go with the most recommended shop over the cheapest shop. 8)

Absolutely. I had a shop come highly recommended just wanted to do a little research before hand so I know what ballpark to expect.

I know it's not an easy question to give an exact answer to so I appreciate the responses.

[Som]

I just did this. I disassembled the head myself and brought all the valves/rockers/springs/camshaft/rocker shafts to the machine shop. Here's what I paid:

$80 for the cleaning/pressure test/inspection. Inspection included testing the springs, valve guides, and valves.
$80 for decking the head.
$150 for regrinding the valves. Not just lapping them, which I was expecting to do myself. Apparently the valves/seats were slightly warped and needed more than just a lapping. I believed them on this as the head I had brought them was from another user on here who had wet compression numbers suggesting significant head leakage.
$165 reinstalling new guides. Got all the guides swapped out. $10/guide for labor, $45 for a set of guides.

So $475 total for a decked head, all new guides, and freshly ground valves/seats.

My valves and the springs were all fine. I bought a new cam ($160 from AutohausAZ), valve seals ($8 from AutohausAZ), new retainers ($25 for 12 -- ECS had a sale), and new HD rocker arms ($300 from IE) separately.

I've enjoyed the experience of assembling the head myself. That said, in the future, I would seriously consider Bimmerheads' deal for paying $1050 ($1300 - $250 core charge) for a new head. I've paid $970 for my head now. The only difference between my head and the BH (MR 325's) head would be that my guides are all new and seats are all freshly ground -- where, from what I understand, Bimmerheads may or may not be the case if the guides/seats are in spec. But if they're in spec, they're in spec, right? :) Plus, the BH head gets you new eccentric hardware (I reused mine) and a new cam gear (I reused mine). Not sure how much of a bonus that is, but it's definitely something.

So the savings was roughly $80. Again, for me, it was worth the experience. But from a pure cost / time of labor perspective, the BH heads are pretty damn attractive.

Som

[MR 325]

I've enjoyed the experience of assembling the head myself. That said, in the future, I would seriously consider Bimmerheads' deal for paying $1050 ($1300 - $250 core charge) for a new head. I've paid $970 for my head now. The only difference between my head and the BH (MR 325's) head would be that my guides are all new and seats are all freshly ground -- where, from what I understand, Bimmerheads may or may not be the case if the guides/seats are in spec. But if they're in spec, they're in spec, right? :) Plus, the BH head gets you new eccentric hardware (I reused mine) and a new cam gear (I reused mine). Not sure how much of a bonus that is, but it's definitely something.

So the savings was roughly $80. Again, for me, it was worth the experience. But from a pure cost / time of labor perspective, the BH heads are pretty damn attractive.

Som

Thanks for the kind words.

All of our heads have the valves and valve seats ground. Valve guides are replaced as needed. Most of the time it's the exhaust guides that need to be replaced. We replace the eccentrics because they can wear. The new rocker arm hardware and intake/exhaust studs is just an added bonus. 8)

[korn]

Perfect timing! I am looking into this as well. I ran across these guys; http://www.autoheadperformance.com

I spoke with a fellow there, and they seemed to know their stuff.

Does anyone have any feedback on them?

[Som]

Thanks for the kind words.

All of our heads have the valves and valve seats ground. Valve guides are replaced as needed. Most of the time it's the exhaust guides that need to be replaced. We replace the eccentrics because they can wear. The new rocker arm hardware and intake/exhaust studs is just an added bonus. 8)

I forgot about the studs. :) I actually made a mental error and never went back to tightening my studs after hand screwing them in. As a result, 1 of my exhaust studs wasn't far enough in to allow me to tighten the nut down and the stud stripped the outer 3 threads from the head. I managed to get it screwed in further, but since I didn't really know how many more threads I had remaining, I barely ended up tightening that exhaust nut for fear of stripping the remaining threads.

Next time I have the head disassembled I'll have to helicoil that stud. Not really among the list of experiences I want to have building this head. :)

One other thing to bring up about the machine shop. While the machine shop I took my head to works on M20 heads for a BMW shop nearby, I did have an issue with the decking that could have been avoided had I given them better direction up front.

After the inspection, I was called up and told the head would need 0.013" removed to deck it. Since I had measured the head at 4.925" (new head height), and the minimum is 4.909", I thought "sounds good, go for it". When I went to pick up my head, he told me that they actually had to take out 0.028". The head was warped significantly enough to need that much removed. Turned out, they had done their initial evaluation with a straight-edge and feeler gauges. The machine they use for decking, though, is much more accurate.

Either way, though, I now had a head that was, theoretically, under 4.900" -- well under the 4.909" minimum. Which means I'd need a thicker head gasket -- possibly even one thicker than the standard +0.3mm. I ended up measuring the head height when I got home and couldn't find a spot that measured less than 4.900". So I went with a +0.3mm (+0.0118") gasket. But then...

...I reassembled everything and started it today and got a rhythmic knocking sound from the engine. Very likely the pistons hitting the head -- which means I need an even thicker head gasket.

Had I known how much they needed to take off, I suspect I would have trashed the head and found another one. I ended up paying for all the guide swapping/valve grinding on a head that now looks like will need a $2-300 head gasket to boot.

Other than this, I've been very happy with their work and their communication. It just seems like there needed to be a better way to let me know ahead of time that my head was that far out of whack.

Upon taking things apart to remove the head and get some clay in there to measure clearance, I noticed I never tightened the middle timing cover bolt that holds down the 2 covers. When I rattled the cover by hand, it had an almost identical timbre to the rhythmic knocking I was getting when the engine was running. I'm gonna have to reassemble everything, run it again, see if I still hear the knocking, then possible disassemble again.

The silver lining to this is -- I can pretty much strip the motor down to the point of needing to remove the head (with manifolds attached) in under 30 minutes now. That is a silver lining, isn't it?

Som
Sorry for the tangent. I'm MC Gets Sidetracked Easily...

[goldenbb]

Yes, Som, that is the silver lining. I was just thinking yesterday that if I do have to re-do my hg because of this oil leak problem I am having, I can probably have the head off in a couple of hours. The first time I did it, I replaced all kinds of seals and gaskets, had horrible problems with the rusted nuts on the manifolds, etc. Basically, drain the coolant, undo the intake and throttle cabling, remove enough parts to get the timing belt off the cam gear, de-couple the manifolds from the rest of the exhaust, pull the valve cover, and undo all the head bolts (in order).