Work ethicality question for anyone who's game

[CreamE30]

Hey R3v,

So theres plenty of people on here who have jobs and what not. I have a grievance about my work and I wonder if I'm out of line in thinking so.

So, for my current job at the beginning during my initial interview it was made clear that I would have to regularly travel throughout the DMV area for work, and that I could claim reimbursement for my mileage as such, so long as it was greater than a set distance from the center which I am based out of.

This coming Saturday I am being scheduled to work in Richmond VA, OK fine...except I am not allowed to drive there on my own, so I can't claim mileage. I have to report to my work at 6AM and ride a bus down there from Sterling VA. OK fine....except I am not allowed to "clock-in" on the bus, I have to wait until we arrive at the work site in Richmond probably 2ish hours later, and clock back out when we leave and ride the bus back.

And for an added kick in the nuts I have to repeat this on Sunday. Does this seem a little out of line to anyone else here? Obviously I'm going to call HR tomorrow in the morning when they are open, but I wanted a general pulse check to see if I'm even on to something.


Any and all opinions are welcome,
Thanks for wasting your time with me

[ak-]

Why aren't you allowed to drive there on your own? If they are making you take the bus, I'd guess "work" starts there and that's when you clock-in considering they are giving you guidelines.

For my job, I have to sit in the my car as part of the opening procedure and "work" starts as soon as I get into the parking lot - regardless if my teammate is late, I'm still on the clock, not when I enter the building.

Anyways, after the first few sentences HR came to mind so it seems like you'll get it figured out soon enough lol.

[mrsleeve]

They are arranging transport that you are forced to use, and are being told to report to work at a given time... Umm show up = pay up. If they told you to show up at 8am at the location where you will work, and there will be a bus available for you to use if you wish too leaving from your normal location, then it would be a different ball game. Sounds like they are trying to have their cake and eat it on this one, again if they are making the bus trip mandatory then you should be getting paid for it.

All depends on what all the fine print says on all that documentation you signed off on when hired in though. In my experience if your employer tells you to show up at a given time at a given location that is when work starts. Not when the bus fucking gets to the location where you will actually work. I have been on jobs where its a 2 hour drive from the meeting area to get to the job site before, you are paid from the time you leave the yard/warehouse till the time you get back to it.

[ST1G]

I would definitely talk to your boss on this one. It seems unreasonable to make you ride the bus, but not pay you for that time, especially if you're an actual employee and not a contractor.

[cale]

It is absolutely out of line for an employer to dictate mode of travel, and then not reimburse you for your time. The law in Canada is that when you are required to work at a location other than the normal one, time to/from that location is billable time and they are required by law to pay it. I'd be surprised if the same wasn't true for much of the US. See if you can find work labor laws so when you call tomorrow, you can lay it out for them plainly. Be sure to document it if you can as well so they can't punish you for getting what you're entitled to.

[CreamE30]

Edit- I forgot to add in that there are 10 of us or so that they are making do this drive.

The logic behind them not allowing us to use our own transportation is "for our safety" so that we don't have to work a long day and then drive home. Thats real kind and all, but it doesn't change my opinion on the matter. Either pay me when I report and bus me down there, or pay for my mileage, thats what we agreed on.

Thanks for the quick responses everyone. Like I said I wanted to make sure it wasn't me just being irrational, lately my work has been seemingly mistreating us quite often. It isn't the first time they've done some fairly crappy stuff to us. We regularly have 14-15 hour work days with one 20 minute break sprinkled in there somewhere in between, if we get the break at all. I'm not one to complain much, but I do expect to be treated fair.

[TurboJake]

I'm not familiar with VA law, but I do know for fact that they are all kinds of screwed up. In WI, unless it was underwritten in the fine print of paperwork you signed, they wouldn't be able to get away with that.

Under most circumstances here, they would pay the bus fee, and consider it work/travel time while on it. If you drove your own car, it would be mileage + whether or not they felt like paying you the time.

[cale]

Edit- I forgot to add in that there are 10 of us or so that they are making do this drive.

The logic behind them not allowing us to use our own transportation is "for our safety" so that we don't have to work a long day and then drive home. Thats real kind and all, but it doesn't change my opinion on the matter. Either pay me when I report and bus me down there, or pay for my mileage, thats what we agreed on.

Thanks for the quick responses everyone. Like I said I wanted to make sure it wasn't me just being irrational, lately my work has been seemingly mistreating us quite often. It isn't the first time they've done some fairly crappy stuff to us. We regularly have 14-15 hour work days with one 20 minute break sprinkled in there somewhere in between, if we get the break at all. I'm not one to complain much, but I do expect to be treated fair.

And there it is, they don't want to pay 80 hours worth of wages.

[mrsleeve]

^
or the 4000 miles in travel for 10 employees 100 miles each way on sat and sun at 47 cents a mile............ They are hoping no one will bitch about it and get away with something. Since we still seem to have this whole "just be glad you have a job do as we say while we violate employment laws to save us a few nickels " mind fuck going on in this country

[ST1G]

Edit- I forgot to add in that there are 10 of us or so that they are making do this drive.

The logic behind them not allowing us to use our own transportation is "for our safety" so that we don't have to work a long day and then drive home. Thats real kind and all, but it doesn't change my opinion on the matter. Either pay me when I report and bus me down there, or pay for my mileage, thats what we agreed on.

Well, simply put if you were to get into an accident on the way to the work site you could likely claim workers comp.

That being said they wouldn't be directly liable for any accidents that occur on the way to the job site, since workers comp covers that, and you can't be sue an employer if you claim workers comp (generally).

As far as compensation goes, you're probably hosed. Generally if you show up at the regular job site, and don't do any work prior to leaving for a job site you don't need to be compensated.

I can assume that you're not doing any work prior to leaving on the bus (packing up tools, having a long briefing meeting...ect.) and so you won't need to be compensated.

Also, there isn't a law (for sure no federal law, and I can't find one for VA, and doubt there is one since you're not in CA or MA) that says your milage or travel time to an initial job site must be reimbursed/paid for.

At this point your best point of attack would be that they contractually agreed to pay you milage for your trips to job sites, but aren't. Since you're not driving that's going to be a tough sell.


My guess is that you're out of luck. I hope I'm wrong, but that's my guess.

[mrsleeve]

When your employer dictates to you to show up at a given time, for a MANDATORY function like getting on a bus for travel to a temporary job site, generally that means your getting PAID for that time, because your not working at your normal site, its billable time to get to the temporary one. Now if your work is always temporary like in construction and your meeting your foreman at the shop at 6am out of convenience and your normal start time is at the temporary site is when your not eligible for travel time

[ck_taft325is]

They have to pay you for having to show up then the bus ride.

It's the Federal Labor laws. Tell them (HR) that they are in violation of at least 2 different laws regarding work practices with employees. 3M was sued heavily by about 1,500 employees that were required to be in work attire and/or at a certain place at a certain time pre-clock in/pay.

[ST1G]

When your employer dictates to you to show up at a given time, for a MANDATORY function like getting on a bus for travel to a temporary job site, generally that means your getting PAID for that time, because your not working at your normal site, its billable time to get to the temporary one. Now if your work is always temporary like in construction and your meeting your foreman at the shop at 6am out of convenience and your normal start time is at the temporary site is when your not eligible for travel time

Do you have a source on this? I'm very curious to see where this is coming from. I couldn't find anything to this effect in my 10 minutes of searching. Even with a temporary job out of town, I found as long as you're not doing work before hand there is no requirement to pay employees.

They have to pay you for having to show up then the bus ride.

It's the Federal Labor laws. Tell them (HR) that they are in violation of at least 2 different laws regarding work practices with employees. 3M was sued heavily by about 1,500 employees that were required to be in work attire and/or at a certain place at a certain time pre-clock in/pay.

Do you have links to these two labor laws? I'd be very interested in reading them.

What do you mean by "heavily sued by 1,500 former employees? The employees filed a class action for a very large sum? Or there were 1,500 suits brought against them?

I believe you're talking about where Barbara Lueders filed class action suit and nine of her co-workers joined. That was a little different as the employees weren't being paid to put on uniforms that had to be put on at work, and were not being paid to do shift change activities. There wasn't punitive damages in the case and the settlement was very modest.

OP isn't being required to do work prior to getting on the bus. This is just an issue of transportation to a work site, not a matter of lack of pay for work that is actually required.

[ck_taft325is]

Do you have a source on this? I'm very curious to see where this is coming from. I couldn't find anything to this effect in my 10 minutes of searching. Even with a temporary job out of town, I found as long as you're not doing work before hand there is no requirement to pay employees.





Do you have links to these two labor laws? I'd be very interested in reading them.

What do you mean by "heavily sued by 1,500 former employees? The employees filed a class action for a very large sum? Or there were 1,500 suits brought against them?

I believe you're talking about where Barbara Lueders filed class action suit and nine of her co-workers joined. That was a little different as the employees weren't being paid to put on uniforms that had to be put on at work, and were not being paid to do shift change activities. There wasn't punitive damages in the case and the settlement was very modest.

OP isn't being required to do work prior to getting on the bus. This is just an issue of transportation to a work site, not a matter of lack of pay for work that is actually required.

He has to report to work then get on a bus. If he's hourly that's work. Regardless of transportation between work sites. Such as, I show up as an hourly employee at X location for work. I work 3 hours. Then I'm told to go to location Z. I drive to Z. That time where I'm driving? Paid.

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/workhours/traveltime.htm

As for the actual lawsuit? I'm not positive. It was brought up in my Orientation where I work due to people in the past having been "required" to be in coveralls Prior to actually being on the clock thus having them "work ready at stations" when they clock in. All of which is illegal for an employer to require. It's a bit late and I'll do some more digging for you tomorrow.

Curious, do you think he's not entitled to pay?

[ST1G]

He has to report to work then get on a bus. If he's hourly that's work. Regardless of transportation between work sites. Such as, I show up as an hourly employee at X location for work. I work 3 hours. Then I'm told to go to location Z. I drive to Z. That time where I'm driving? Paid.

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/workhours/traveltime.htm

As for the actual lawsuit? I'm not positive. It was brought up in my Orientation where I work due to people in the past having been "required" to be in coveralls Prior to actually being on the clock thus having them "work ready at stations" when they clock in. All of which is illegal for an employer to require. It's a bit late and I'll do some more digging for you tomorrow.

Curious, do you think he's not entitled to pay?

My personal opinion is that he should be paid. Unfortunately it doesn't come down to a personal opinion, but how laws have been interpreted over time.

I doubt that he is going to be paid. He isn't doing any work, and it sounds like he typically is working all over the place anyway. I just don't think that the requirements of the link above are met. Even if they are he needs to prove this to his employer in a way that doesn't get him into hot water. Since VA is an 'at will' state he could be dismissed at any time for any reason he needs to tread lightly.

It's kinda shitty situation. My guess is the only way he will be compensated is by either 1.) having a very reasonable HR. or 2.) speaking with his states wages commission and having the state deal with it with him.