Chump car and AER regulations

[Massive Lee]

Without going into the slippery slope of interpretation, and already understanding than an "upgraded" part shall not cost more than 2x the original part price, can somebody tell me exactly, and from experience, what is the maximum expense allowed for a front rotor and front caliper.

BMW NA sells BMW e30 rotors for $75.00usd each.
Does it mean a $150.00usd rotor/hat combo is allowed?

Turner sells an OEM caliper for $290.00usd, does it mean I can fit a $580.00usd caliper and mount combo?

Ranger?

[stonea]

Sub'd out of curiosity

[TobyB]

Protested for more than 2x Pap Boys!


Damned good question, Lee...

t

[Massive Lee]

Another question in regard of Chump car regulations. Is there a limit in terms of rotors size and caliper pistons.

[Massive Lee]

4.8. THE 2X RULE
4.8.1. The retail price of any NEW replacement wheel, brake caliper, brake rotors, or non-adjustable shock absorber that you put on your ChumpCar must be less than twice the cost of a stock replacement wheel, brake caliper, brake rotors, or shock absorber that is available on-line by a nationally recognized auto parts retail chain (i.e. - Napa, AutoZone, O'Reilly, Advanced, etc.). ChumpCar reserves the right to go on-line and pull up retail prices.

4.8.2. Wilwood calipers, up to a maximum of 4 pistons, that exceed the 2X Rule will be valued at 5 pts per caliper

Basically, Chump uses crappy stores selling junk Taiwan-made parts as a reference. Also, they compare the price of a new part (Wilwood caliper per exemple) with one of a cheap rebuild as they don't actually charge for a caliper, but the rebuild of a 30 years old caliper.

If you want a brand new OEM caliper, price is $298.00usd each from Turner. Does it mean that Chump will not allow you to install a brand new ATE caliper because it is more than 2x the price of a cheapo Pop Boy rebuild? ;-)

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3103-caliper-front-left-new-e30-318i-325e-325i-only-for-cars-with-ate-calipers/

[e30_302]

This car podiumed out West. I can't say how it was tech'd or valued, but there wasn't any forum chatter on it. Going through tech in ChumpCar can be a very subjective and inconsistent experience.

[TobyB]

...but I thought that was the point of the 'crapcan' racing orgs-

"Look, I can drive any old crap on track with cheap parts that might work on a good day"

as opposed to the SCCA model, where every rule is meant to be pushed right out to the edge, and cost be damned...

not that I have a horse in this one, as I don't race in either.

t

[Massive Lee]

This car podiumed out West. I can't say how it was tech'd or valued, but there wasn't any forum chatter on it. Going through tech in ChumpCar can be a very subjective and inconsistent experience.

Looks like the $1200.00usd IE front kit w/ fixed rotors.

Maybe the driver got points deducted.

[e30_302]

And still make it on the podium, I doubt it. Probably either claimed it at a very low value, or not al all. Or maybe they put all 50 points they had to work with on the front brake kit.

[Massive Lee]

Friend of mine just came back the other day from the Road Atlanta AER race. It usually doesn't take long until the e30 gets out of brake on a Sprint race. What do you do in a 12 hour enduro? No brakes is not fast, and it's not safe either. And not cheap when you smash the car because the pedal went to the floor... ;-)

I totally understand the concept of racing a crappy car on crappy brakes for the sake of a crappy budget. Just trying to understand the rules. ;-)

[e30_302]

I'd say he's doing something wrong then if that's the case. The overwhelming majority of e30 ChumpCar racers are on stock rotors and calipers. High temp fluid, a real race pad, some ducting and you're good to go.

Remember, we're on 200tw street tires here.

[Snowmann]

Friend of mine just came back the other day from the Road Atlanta AER race. It usually doesn't take long until the e30 gets out of brake on a Sprint race. What do you do in a 12 hour enduro? No brakes is not fast, and it's not safe either. And not cheap when you smash the car because the pedal went to the floor... ;-)

I totally understand the concept of racing a crappy car on crappy brakes for the sake of a crappy budget. Just trying to understand the rules. ;-)

I also have to disagree. We run stock original brake calipers rebuilt annually, cheapish rotors, and have run 12 hours on PFC 08 compound pads with the fastest laps in the night late in the race. The track for this particular event was easy on brakes, but still. This was on an SCCA IT prep E30 with the ballast removed. I've run OEM equivalent ATE, Brembos etc. and I've noticed no difference on rotors from those to a local parts store rotor. Car and driver are current record holders at 2 circuits in division - wanted to ground the group that I'm not just parading around. We've also run PFC 11's at a heavy braking track in a 2.5 and 3hr Enduro. That one race will usually kill the 11's but performance is up over the 08's in my opinion.

[Massive Lee]

I suppose that at the Special Olympics everyone is a winner, right?

Let's please let's not make it another "e30 brakes are the best of the world". It is not the subject. I want to know the rules.

[e30_302]

You can call it special olympics all you want, but there are teams out there running a 12 hour enduro like it's a sprint race and not melting down their brakes.

But anyway, you're reading the rule correctly- 2x parts store value. Now, is it always enforced that way? Nope, but we're early into the '17 season so maybe that will change. The CC director is mike@chumpcar.com if you want a straight answer.

[Snowmann]

[QUOTE=Massive Lee;4748640]What do you do in a 12 hour enduro? No brakes is not fast, and it's not safe either. And not cheap when you smash the car because the pedal went to the floor... ;-)\QUOTE]

You asked a question. You received 2 answers.

Our shared personal experiences are what most are doing in chump, lemons, and cars that are crossing over to run AER and WRL: SpecE30, SCCA IT, NASA PTE etc.