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**Car Freak** · 01-25-2017, 04:18 AM

Get them in panels instead of looking silly with small pieces

Originally posted by 2mAn View Post

I think this was directed at me. Let me start by saying that Im an idiot and know very little about this, but Im trying to learn. I was also posting it on my phone while I had a few minutes of down time at work, so...

My comments are just to try and get more info out and to help the wealth of info. After doing some more reading and research it seems that the airtabs help to keep the air connected to the car by creating the tumbling effect. This seems like it would help a lip spoiler generate more downforce, by keeping more air connected to the body down the rear glass and onto the spoiler. (again, no idea if Im remotely correct).

Your modeling is good, but that only works for the M3, as the regular E30s have a different angle on the rear glass. Is it hard to make another model with the basic E30 angle as well? Then if its possible to add the M3 rear wing and maybe a crazier M3 type wing, I dont think the Evo M3s ever got the crazy Evo wings that the Cosworth 190s got, is that possible to model as well. Im just thinking out loud here, but I think the combo of airtabs with a big wing would be beneficial

I watched that video that was recommended "kyle drives" and it didnt help me much, but this other video I found seems to be a little more helpful. not with the VGs but aerodynamics in general

Hi,
A friend of mine just added these tabs on his fleet (trucks and vans), but they were in practical panels instead. Not only does it look more integrated, but it also gives the correct spacing each time.
As I understand it, they can come to close to each other (the vortices will interfere with each other and be counter productive).

https://www.v-spoilers.com/

**squidmaster** · 01-25-2017, 08:43 AM

Haha I was just burnt out man. I start work at 730am and generally work until 7 or 8pm, every day.

You can see that they do help turning the turbulent wake into a tapered, more laminar flow, but all that I was saying in my original message was that "You'd probably have to extend your wing even higher to make proper use of it."
which, with the testing I did, does seem to be the case.

**2mAn** · 01-25-2017, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by Car Freak View Post

As I understand it, they can come to close to each other (the vortices will interfere with each other and be counter productive).

https://www.v-spoilers.com/

You're correct. The airtabs say they need about 4" of spacing between them, center to center. Also , in regards to the rear window line, I have to double check but it said as long as it's within 10-12" of the rear edge it's fine

Originally posted by squidmaster View Post

Haha I was just burnt out man. I start work at 730am and generally work until 7 or 8pm, every day.

You can see that they do help turning the turbulent wake into a tapered, more laminar flow, but all that I was saying in my original message was that "You'd probably have to extend your wing even higher to make proper use of it."
which, with the testing I did, does seem to be the case.

I was actually agreeing with you but typing with my thumbs makes everything I say sound dumb.

When you are saying to extend the wing higher I figured it would need to be even with the roofline, something that I believe Eric did on his M3.

We need to get Eric in there to do a detailed modeling

**TobyB** · 01-25-2017, 02:13 PM

Look for 'wind tunnel simulators'- those are fun, and if you dig around, you might find
something sorta accurate. It's really neat to see how HARD it is to keep flow attached.
It explains why Kamm gave up in the 60's and settled for a clean detachment instead.

My 6 year old can draw a cleaner wing than I can.

t

**2mAn** · 01-25-2017, 05:40 PM

Hey Squid can you throw this image in your modeler

**squidmaster** · 01-25-2017, 06:46 PM

Moving shop starting tomorrow, won't have much time to do modeling for a little. Been wanting to run a 190e Evo through it though. Would want to spend time to make each aero bit tho as the 190swere very engineered. I miss my 190 w AMG kit :(

**squidmaster** · 01-25-2017, 06:46 PM

The taillights alone on those cars are art

**2mAn** · 01-25-2017, 09:13 PM

One of the most overengineered cars, I still wish I bought a w201 to daily instead of a w204, but its all goood....

**squidmaster** · 01-25-2017, 09:17 PM

If it was over engineered they wouldn't have made it a box with flat headlights and flat square mirrors. It was just a cruiser that some butthurt exec decided at the last minute to try and outpace the m3. At least that's my feeling on the matter haha

Like, if they had started to make a sporty road racer they would have gone the route of S class, ya know? Sportier, more aerodynamic, coupes.

Would love to see a documentary about the making of the 190 if anyone knows one

**pondhopper** · 01-25-2017, 09:22 PM

I'be been reading articles in autospeed.com about exactly this subject.
This guy uses simple but scientific methods and affordable instruments for testing different aero mods on his cars. I think the part I like best is that he writes about his successes, failures and so so results.

All his tests can be easily replicated. As soon as my E30 is back on the road, I'm buying a manometer and GoPro and let the testing begin.

Takes a bit of digging thru but well worth perusing imho.

Would also be cool to back up computer sims with real life testing to guage accuracy.

**Eric** · 01-25-2017, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by squidmaster View Post

Moving shop starting tomorrow, won't have much time to do modeling for a little. Been wanting to run a 190e Evo through it though. Would want to spend time to make each aero bit tho as the 190swere very engineered. I miss my 190 w AMG kit :(

I'm off tomorrow, need some help?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**squidmaster** · 01-26-2017, 08:07 AM

Yo, today is just mostly going over the construction work and setting up utilities and stuff. I might need a hand next Thursday or Friday when I get tools and work benches, or pretty much any day after that building all the damned things. Cheers!