The people of Turkey are rioting for a secular government

[BraveUlysses]

^

remember the average age of the great democracies of history was 200 years before falling into tyranny , we are on borrowed time.

This statement is based on what exactly?

[gtdragon980]

Yeah, I guess that's true. There is some pretty good government tyranny happening already. As mrsleeve says, the average age of a democracy before shit hits the fan is around 200 years.

Maybe wishful thinking on my part that we won't have to deal with another civil war in our lifetimes.

I sure as hell would not like to deal with a civil war or rebellion against the government in my lifetime, but sometimes, you just can't expect what is gonna happen next.

[Dozyproductions]

My friend is in Istanbul now. All she could say was the real protestors are overly peaceful and that the police reaction is inhumane.

And yes this has to happen in the United States. We've never been a democracy and we resemble more of a corporate oligarchy if anything.

[z31maniac]

We've never been a democracy

We were never suppose to be.

Representative republic != democracy

[rwh11385]

We were never suppose to be.

Representative republic != democracy

Yes, but also include a mention of the constitution in the mix though. No branch can go willy-nilly with power since it is limited by the other two.

Our nation has recently had ironic riots where college students and recent graduates protested the wealthy and evil corporations not paying their fair share while on expensive Apple laptops produced overseas in inhumane conditions that earned the company profits they paid very little tax on. (As silly and trivial as most of that camping out was, some of the response like Romney's shitting on the 47% - some of which were well off but benefited from our twisted tax system - was also pretty unproductive.)

Ultimately, we bitch about stupid things sometimes when we have it pretty good compared to other countries. (Including freedoms we sometimes take for granted)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/06/01/astonishing-numbers-americas-poor-still-live-better-than-most-of-the-rest-of-humanity/

Astonishing Numbers: America's Poor Still Live Better Than Most Of The Rest Of Humanity

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/the-haves-and-the-have-nots/

Notice how the entire line for the United States resides in the top portion of the graph? That’s because the entire country is relatively rich. In fact, America’s bottom ventile is still richer than most of the world: That is, the typical person in the bottom 5 percent of the American income distribution is still richer than 68 percent of the world’s inhabitants.

Of course the system could be improved. I readily know that Buddy and others are sick of the two party strangle-hold they have on the country and the lack of a good feasible middle option and witnessing the stupidity of Congress inability to lead or act. More people could have civil liberties such as the right to marry who they love and reducing unnecessary costs of war on drugs and imprisoning people for a victim-less crime We could have a more intelligent tax system and increase the citizens' voices instead of being overpowered by lobbying. Heck, we could eliminate stupid blue laws that force religious principles on states who might not appreciate these limitations. Maybe seeing some of this as objectionable will help understand similar stuff here is not acceptable either, such as:

Parliament members and a ex-minister of the AKP shunned LGBT problems in the country and explicitly called LGBT people sick, claiming homosexuality as a curable disease.

But let's not confuse our petty crap with real problems they're dealing with. I hope they get a fair outcome and resolve this without too much pain and difficulty but I am unsure if that is realistic sadly.

[Dozyproductions]

democracy seems to be synonymous with capitalism. ;)

[rwh11385]

democracy seems to be synonymous with capitalism. ;)

I believe you know that they are not synonymous and I also don't think that is what you are trying to say really. We still vote for people to represent us so not a democracy. The ability to own capital doesn't change that people vote for their representatives (whether directly or for president... through electoral college)... at least, since we let people besides land owners vote in 1856. On election day, Bill Gates's vote counts the same as the person who owns nothing. Therefore democracy is not synonymous with capitalism nor should be confused to seem like each other.


However, the current system is corrupted in two ways:
1) Lobbying influences Congress and other representatives to act in the interests of contributors rather than their constituents. This does not mean there isn't democracy but rather there is a lack of accountability of the elected officials to the people who vote them in. We could rally to vote only for people who didn't act like this, but as Buddy has mentioned - people generally like their officials and think all the other ones are the problem.

2) PACs and Party Leadership have a large role role in deciding who the feasible candidates we have to choose from. (We can obviously write in candidates, but this would take people to be organized to counter-act the two-party heavyweights) Sadly, even the least bad GOP primary candidate that beat out the GOP-leadership favorites loonies was still pretty lame when it came to the general election. Those in power didn't like the less crazy people and shitcanned them for more RWNJ front runners that they decided on.

This video does a great job describing issue #2:

http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim.html

Now, what can we say about democracy in Lesterland? What we can say, number one, as the Supreme Court said in Citizens United, that people have the ultimate influence over elected officials, because, after all, there is a general election, but only after the Lesters have had their way with the candidates who wish to run in the general election. And number two, obviously, this dependence upon the Lesters is going to produce a subtle, understated, we could say camouflaged, bending to keep the Lesters happy. Okay, so we have a democracy, no doubt, but it's dependent upon the Lesters and dependent upon the people.

The good news is that the Koch brothers weren't magically able to buy elections, as much as they tried, and people still have the power of their vote and can decide for themselves. The same goes for Karl Rove: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...-of-money.html Rove Biggest Super-PAC Loser, Trump Says Waste of Money

Donald Trump posted a message on Twitter saying: “Congrats to @KarlRove on blowing $400 million this cycle. Every race @CrossroadsGPS ran ads in, the Republicans lost. What a waste of money.”

Americans for Prosperity, founded 10 years ago by industrial billionaires David and Charles Koch, didn’t have much of a better night than the Rove groups.

If they could pump money into campaigns to ensure results, then you could say they seems synonymous... but not really at all in reality.


btw, I find this to be good as well:

http://www.policymic.com/articles/24766/karl-rove-takes-on-the-tea-party-to-save-the-gop-from-itself

Karl Rove Takes On the Tea Party to Save the GOP From Itself

The cleavage between Tea Party insurgent candidacies and the national Republican establishment is becoming a huge liability to their overall national strategy.

The Tea Party has become almost as major a headache to Republican leadership as the Democratic Party. And the left realizes it: they're gearing up for major initiatives to fund far-right challengers in the hopes of weakening mainstream GOP candidates. In the best-case scenario for Democrats, Tea Party politicians win the primaries outright and get slaughtered in the general election.

The Tea Baggers have been an absolute embarrassment, but if they divide the GOP and a central third party could grow with a small extreme minority that only carries a few flyover states, that'd be pretty cool. Or if they realize the RWNJ approach is a fail, then good too.

[Q5Quint]

^

remember the average age of the great democracies of history was 200 years before falling into tyranny , we are on borrowed time.

I was going to say 'Have you ever been to china' but then saw the part about democracy ;-)

The greek city-states were pretty tumultuous, and we are replaying that scene but at a much larger 'country/state' scale today.

The tea-party thing is pretty funny- my mom LOVED Sarah Palin mostly because she was a
1. Woman 2. Uber christian
Boom vote.

That was it. No credentials needed. That is literally how most people choose a candidate.

1. He is for lower taxes 2. He hates our black president
BOOM got the vote.

Democracy is sad, and the lies that are being spread around are even sad-er. We will have voter id's in our state this year.... and likely no polls on college campuses. Funny thing is that my nearby campus poll only had like 50 more blue votes than red.... so you hope those 600 red votes that now have to go somewhere else actually still vote for you, because the blues will certainly be pissed at you and likely will in force. Petty tactics instead of actually trying to make anything 'better'.