NOR-CAL General Chat.

[chriso]

Okay guys, this is a big question for me.

I'm pretty torn on what to do next with my car, after getting a full inspection done of the slicktop, my m42 seals are shot.

Talking over with my old shop in Las Vegas, they said "Rebuild and Turbo the M42." - I talked to McGyver about this a while ago, and he said there's no way to turbo it and make it legal in California. While I believe that he's right - does anyone else know of any way to make this possible and legal?

Also, at $5,000 for a complete top-end rebuild, I don't think this is worth it - maybe I'm wrong, and it is - but why spend $5,000 on an M42?

So, this brings me to the next thought...

S54 swap. If I'm going to spend $5,000 on an engine, I feel like this is the better alternative. But I've already heard it's incredibly hard to get it to pass BAR. I've been trying to find threads of others that have done it... but I have only found one with no details as to how it was done.

What would you guys do?

[mtech325]

There's no way to legally turbo an m42 in California since there's no CARB approved options. Unfortunately the rules of the land.

You could certainly rebuild the m42, as many people enjoy them for what they are. I don't know if $5k for a rebuild is a good deal, but to be fair, the m42 is a pricey little motor by the time you add up all the small things. If this is the route you go, do the timing case update. From a resale standpoint, keeping the car stock-ish with the m42 will probably be more desirable to potential buyers.

The S54 swap is definitely cool, but $5k seems low. I think closer to 10k is more realistic. I say this because doing an obd1 m/s5x swap costs around 5k by the time you get a used motor and refresh standard maintenance items, plus the custom bits needed for the swap to work in the e30. If you're genuinely interested in the s54 though, check out Bimmerman's write-up as he performed a BAR legal S54 swap in an OBD1 e36 m3.

I was in similar shoes a year ago when my m42 skipped timing and put the engine out of commission. I went the 24v route, but it's been a long road. I don't regret swapping the car, but I'm still ironing out kinks as I go. If I were to have rebuilt the m42, it would have been a plug-n-play affair and probably cost less in the end...but also down 100 hp :devil:

[Cabriolet]

any swap will cost you a min of 5k. my m20b25 rebuilds cost 3k without labor, just parts. a s54 legal swap will cost you more than 15k. a non-bar maybe 10k. keeo in mind that little things add up fast. i know. my "stock" e30 cost me 32k to restore and it's still an m20b25.

the cheapest easiest swap is s50b30 using the shit g240 trans for about 5k for engine and parts, if you do it yourself.

to everyone else, i bought a 1991 corrado. i get to drive in in a week and i plan to sell my e30 next spring and camera stuff this fall. this will be any interesting change of life.

[decay]

yeah, you're not going turbo legally in california. i had plenty of headaches just running an itb setup.

you're starting with an m42 car, which makes a twincam six swap easier than usual. do suspension and brakes first. then it's s52 time. i don't see a good cost:benefit ratio out of dealing with making the s54 work.

our cars are less than 3000lbs. you don't need a high-strung dyno queen engine to make them quick. do it the cost-effective way.

[Wanganstyle]

NOR-CAL General Chat.

Okay guys, this is a big question for me.

I'm pretty torn on what to do next with my car, after getting a full inspection done of the slicktop, my m42 seals are shot.

Talking over with my old shop in Las Vegas, they said "Rebuild and Turbo the M42." - I talked to McGyver about this a while ago, and he said there's no way to turbo it and make it legal in California. While I believe that he's right - does anyone else know of any way to make this possible and legal?

Also, at $5,000 for a complete top-end rebuild, I don't think this is worth it - maybe I'm wrong, and it is - but why spend $5,000 on an M42?

So, this brings me to the next thought...

S54 swap. If I'm going to spend $5,000 on an engine, I feel like this is the better alternative. But I've already heard it's incredibly hard to get it to pass BAR. I've been trying to find threads of others that have done it... but I have only found one with no details as to how it was done.

What would you guys do?

Fix the leaking m42 and drive the car. If you wish for more power it's cheaper/easier/cali smog legal to just buy another car with desired power plant and park it next to your e30.

Bmw makes some nice modern turbocharged 4 and 6 cylinder cars; Oem turbo is always better than adding boost to a NA

[chriso]

Fix the leaking m42 and drive the car. If you wish for more power it's cheaper/easier/cali smog legal to just buy another car with desired power plant and park it next to your e30.

Bmw makes some nice modern turbocharged 4 and 6 cylinder cars; Oem turbo is always better than adding boost to a NA

I already have a 135 as a daily. I don't NEED the e30 to be fast. I just don't want to throw out upwards of $3,500-$5,000 on a rebuild of the 4cyl if it doesn't make sense.

I'm still pretty new in the Bay, so I don't have really any friends to discuss the pros or cons with, nor do I have access to a garage at the moment.

What I'm trying to do in my head, in figure out what makes the most sense.

My goal was honestly to replace my 135i with two E30s. One that was pretty tame for road trips and daily driving, and one that was set up to track, as I've recently wanted to get into it, living so close to the tracks.

Originally the idea was to keep the M42 because I thought it was good and clean, and upgrade everything around it to make it the ultimate daily / weekend auto cross machine in its own class. Literally make it a little baby M3.


The question now becomes... since everything in the car needs major repairs anyway, does it make more sense on just getting an i6? Or does it take away the fun of the M42? It's a hard decisions because I don't know anyone with M/S5x swaps to test it out.

I do love the N54 in my 135i, but, the car itself just isn't nearly as enjoyable as as E30.

[Toodaloo]

Just saw on craiglist today that Toodaloo sold his car...

LOL... Had to...

looks like my screen name finally came into play.

I'll miss the e30, but I'll be back someday!

[sonomabimmers]

^ did you get asking or close ? That car deserved it.


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[McGyver]

I already have a 135 as a daily. I don't NEED the e30 to be fast. I just don't want to throw out upwards of $3,500-$5,000 on a rebuild of the 4cyl if it doesn't make sense.

I'm still pretty new in the Bay, so I don't have really any friends to discuss the pros or cons with, nor do I have access to a garage at the moment.

What I'm trying to do in my head, in figure out what makes the most sense.

My goal was honestly to replace my 135i with two E30s. One that was pretty tame for road trips and daily driving, and one that was set up to track, as I've recently wanted to get into it, living so close to the tracks.

Originally the idea was to keep the M42 because I thought it was good and clean, and upgrade everything around it to make it the ultimate daily / weekend auto cross machine in its own class. Literally make it a little baby M3.


The question now becomes... since everything in the car needs major repairs anyway, does it make more sense on just getting an i6? Or does it take away the fun of the M42? It's a hard decisions because I don't know anyone with M/S5x swaps to test it out.

I do love the N54 in my 135i, but, the car itself just isn't nearly as enjoyable as as E30.

The only way to legally turbo your car in CA would be to swap in a newer engine from another car that came turbo from the factory. Period.

IMO, best option for getting more power would be going 24 valve. Just keep in mind that you're going to need everything from the air intake box to the cat from the donor car if you plan on making it legal. So buying a wrecked donor car is probably the best option. You could build a custom m5x stroker with a cam and all that stuff, but it will be so much easier (time, money, frustration, legally, engine durability, etc) to just swap in an s5x. s50 makes a little less power but is OBDI so that makes it a little easier to BAR. s52 makes more power, is tuneable, and has better diagnostics for troubleshooting, but is OBDII and takes more effort to make legal. Both of these approaches are well documented and can be done with time and money as long as you start with a plan.

That being said, I think the best option for you is to get another m42 and rebuild it yourself. I'll help you with the actual engine swap and we can probably get the whole thing done in a saturday, or a full weekend at the most. You'll learn a lot about how everything goes together and will help you to understand so much more about the car. It'll also prepare you for an s5x swap in the future. I say you should rebuild an m42 for 2 reasons:
1) You have a slick top 318is. You have a very special car that is just about the lightest e30 ever offered. Changing the the engine will negate the whole point of buying a 318is. (And would probably lower it's potential value)
2) While rebuilding the engine, you can do a stroker kit to get extra power and that won't be noticeable when getting it smogged. This guy has a discussion about his stoker 318 in CA, so you can get first hand info from him.

[Wanganstyle]

I already have a 135 as a daily. I don't NEED the e30 to be fast. I just don't want to throw out upwards of $3,500-$5,000 on a rebuild of the 4cyl if it doesn't make sense.

I'm still pretty new in the Bay, so I don't have really any friends to discuss the pros or cons with, nor do I have access to a garage at the moment.

What I'm trying to do in my head, in figure out what makes the most sense.

My goal was honestly to replace my 135i with two E30s. One that was pretty tame for road trips and daily driving, and one that was set up to track, as I've recently wanted to get into it, living so close to the tracks.

Originally the idea was to keep the M42 because I thought it was good and clean, and upgrade everything around it to make it the ultimate daily / weekend auto cross machine in its own class. Literally make it a little baby M3.


The question now becomes... since everything in the car needs major repairs anyway, does it make more sense on just getting an i6? Or does it take away the fun of the M42? It's a hard decisions because I don't know anyone with M/S5x swaps to test it out.

I do love the N54 in my 135i, but, the car itself just isn't nearly as enjoyable as as E30.

leave the e30 an E30; its always going to be fun because its an E30 regardless of the powerplant. I6 e30 is fun and DOHC i6 e30 even more fun but an all original E30 is still the most E30.

As slow as it is compared to your 135 you can always just drive the 135 when feeling the need for boost; its not a terrible problem to have.

[Cabriolet]

LOL... Had to...

looks like my screen name finally came into play.

I'll miss the e30, but I'll be back someday!

soon i will too be able to say this. but im leaning towards posting it for sale in march. that will give me time to fix all the minor issues. and claim that 18k im looking for.

[Toodaloo]

^ did you get asking or close ? That car deserved it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I got exactly what I wanted for it. Listed it high and only had to drop 1000 off asking due to finding some small issues that weren't dire, but the new owner wanted fixed.

The new owner is a great guy. Daily's an e39 m5. (Also let me drive it, and I'm in love with that v8)
Only lives 30 minutes away from me and we'll be staying in contact so I can see where the car goes. Who knows; Maybe I'll buy it back one day.

soon i will too be able to say this. but im leaning towards posting it for sale in march. that will give me time to fix all the minor issues. and claim that 18k im looking for.

Jump into the market! Now Is definitely a great time to sell considering the values have just shot up. 18 is very doable with your car.

[jpod999]

The new owner is a great guy. Daily's an e39 m5. (Also let me drive it, and I'm in love with that v8)

Told ya so ;)

[Bimmerman325i]

I'm happy to share all I've learned with the S54/E36 BAR process, but really....don't do a motor swap. Save yourself the aggravation and just buy the car the motor came in.

The S54 swap cost me north of 10k (before mods) doing my own labor, and I don't know the actual figure-- I just stopped counting. Getting the S54 through BAR is actually really easy and really simple-- swap over ALL the emissions components from the chassis the engine came from and wire them up (it's 6 extra wires on an S54 in addition to Andrew's harness). The hard part about BAR is making the swap look like a professional did it. If you show up with the jankiest engine swap with a rat's nest of wiring....guess what, you'll annoy the ref and he'll go over it with a fine tooth comb. Make the ref's job easy and you've got a good chance.

However, and this is why I hesitate to recommend swapping any car-- finding a shop to smog the car legitimately for your first post-BAR smog check is NOT easy. I went to a half dozen shops and was turned away multiple times because the shops don't know the rules. If it's not 100% obviously stock for the year and chassis, they are not going to risk their livelihood on it. In theory they should know the rules but they don't, and they really don't want to argue with mr fancy special car owner.

So, S54 swaps. It's awesome to drive. Hilariously fun, rips to redline, way more power and torque everywhere than any S50 or S52 (I have/have had both). Downside of S54-- maintenance is roughly double the cost and the interval of the S50/2 motors. Oil is made of unicorn tears, valves need adjusting as if it's 1983 again, and you better stay on top of vanos and rod bearing wear otherwise things can go catastrophically wrong. On the plus side, the cooling system isn't made out of crap, so it actually lasts. The last downside to any motor swapped car is that they are by definition a project, and getting everything to integrate properly and reliably is an enormous and time consuming (and expensive) pain in the ass.

If you want an S54, buy an E46 M3. I love my swapped car but it's not a wise project to tackle.

Regarding E30 S50/52 swaps, if I were to do one nowadays, given the tuning options, I'd go for a BAR'd OBD2 S52. Two main reasons: OBD2 diagnostics are simply amazing, and S50s are less common and in worse shape. If you're going to mod the engine after BAR, you should know the S52 has significantly more potential than an S50, and OBD2 allows for much better tuning than OBD1.

But don't do a swap. If you want more power, buy a car with more power. Don't blow $5k on an m42 rebuild, just buy a used M42 for beer and pocket lint....

[BlackbirdM3]

I'm happy to share all I've learned with the S54/E36 BAR process, but really....don't do a motor swap. Save yourself the aggravation and just buy the car the motor came in.

The S54 swap cost me north of 10k (before mods) doing my own labor, and I don't know the actual figure-- I just stopped counting. Getting the S54 through BAR is actually really easy and really simple-- swap over ALL the emissions components from the chassis the engine came from and wire them up (it's 6 extra wires on an S54 in addition to Andrew's harness). The hard part about BAR is making the swap look like a professional did it. If you show up with the jankiest engine swap with a rat's nest of wiring....guess what, you'll annoy the ref and he'll go over it with a fine tooth comb. Make the ref's job easy and you've got a good chance.

However, and this is why I hesitate to recommend swapping any car-- finding a shop to smog the car legitimately for your first post-BAR smog check is NOT easy. I went to a half dozen shops and was turned away multiple times because the shops don't know the rules. If it's not 100% obviously stock for the year and chassis, they are not going to risk their livelihood on it. In theory they should know the rules but they don't, and they really don't want to argue with mr fancy special car owner.

So, S54 swaps. It's awesome to drive. Hilariously fun, rips to redline, way more power and torque everywhere than any S50 or S52 (I have/have had both). Downside of S54-- maintenance is roughly double the cost and the interval of the S50/2 motors. Oil is made of unicorn tears, valves need adjusting as if it's 1983 again, and you better stay on top of vanos and rod bearing wear otherwise things can go catastrophically wrong. On the plus side, the cooling system isn't made out of crap, so it actually lasts. The last downside to any motor swapped car is that they are by definition a project, and getting everything to integrate properly and reliably is an enormous and time consuming (and expensive) pain in the ass.

If you want an S54, buy an E46 M3. I love my swapped car but it's not a wise project to tackle.

Regarding E30 S50/52 swaps, if I were to do one nowadays, given the tuning options, I'd go for a BAR'd OBD2 S52. Two main reasons: OBD2 diagnostics are simply amazing, and S50s are less common and in worse shape. If you're going to mod the engine after BAR, you should know the S52 has significantly more potential than an S50, and OBD2 allows for much better tuning than OBD1.

But don't do a swap. If you want more power, buy a car with more power. Don't blow $5k on an m42 rebuild, just buy a used M42 for beer and pocket lint....

Well stated. I couldn't agree more, for the most part.

I think building a hot M42 would be cool. An detuned S42 clone would be sweet in a 318iS. I say go to town on the M42, make the head flow well, and put some cams in it. I'd bet it would be a ton of fun if done right.

Will