Running on E85?

[Jean]

Okay, who has tried running their M60/M62 on E85 or done the research on this subject?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

http://www.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/alternative-fuels/how-e85-ethanol-flex-fuel-works.htm

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/e85-vs-gasoline-comparison-test.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuOs1yap8mU

[Jean]

Found M60 E85 build here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THL1n7_lZDY

I'll contact the owner to get more info on how it's running and maybe a dyno sheet?



A deafening roar from the rebuilt 4-liter V8 (M60) when it is started after the rebuilding to 100% ethanol (E85) operation. After a 1.6 mm face milling of cylinder heads is the compression ratio now 12.5:1 (original 10:1). Completely rebuilt fuel system for higher fuel flow and pressure. The fuelsystem has now installed BOSCH EV6 injectors, that flows 42 LBS/HR (436cc/min) with E85 fuel. Original fuelinjectors flow 19 LBS/HR (191cc/min) for petrol. Fuel pressure set to original 3,5 bar (51 psi). It has a old engine optimization for Shell V-Power petrol. The motor control will be re-optimized for the E85 fuel.

[nando]

you're going to need to tune for it. stoich on E85 is significantly richer and you need something like 40% more fuel. that's way outside the DME's adaptation range.

the advantage is you can run a higher CR/more boost, and it's sometimes cheaper (in europe it's heavily subsidized). The disadvantage is you'll use a LOT more fuel, and it's not available everywhere.

for an N/A motor, I'm not sure it's really worth it. On a turbo it can make a huge difference, because you can run more boost, more timing, and a higher CR. on an N/A motor, going from 11:1 to 12:1 is a pretty small difference power wise, and you might not be knock limited on normal gasoline to begin with.

Is E85 cheap/available where you live? what if you leave your area?

[Jean]

Yep, it's available locally. I am just sharing what I am finding on this and maybe someone has done this before like the guy in the youtube clip :) I've sent him a message to see if he's got a build thread and a dyno.

[nando]

The easiest way to do this would probably be to run a standalone capable of supporting a flexfuel sensor. You can of course recode the stock ECU, but that takes a significant amount of skill and could be expensive. Plus you are stuck with one tune that only runs on one kind of fuel - a flex fuel sensor will automatically adjust fuel/timing (and possibly even boost) based on ethanol content.

[Jean]

Makes sense. But what needs to be "prepped" on the engine side/ fuel system side to make it E85 friendly if possible

One can posible have a spare DME for this, cheap and easy way to switch between the two if needed, for say smog or emissions?

What does running E85 do for emissions?

[nando]

replace the fuel lines with new ones - maybe a higher flow filter and pump, but otherwise not much.

I've no idea about emissions - no testing here.

I thought about doing an E85 setup but there's only 1 E85 station within 200 miles...

[Jonsku]

you're going to need to tune for it. stoich on E85 is significantly richer and you need something like 40% more fuel. that's way outside the DME's adaptation range.

Do you have knowledge on stock DME's adaptation range? Mainly considering these M60B44 engines - can they be test-driven / warmed up with stock B40 ECU or do they need to be retuned more or less on 0km .. ?


Regarding E85 and emissions, they're much larger when the engine is cold (especially on cold-starts from -20c etc..) but I guess that's not a problem in California :)

[nando]

typically it's about 15%. The initial duty cycle may be too small to even start the engine, but it's complicated because you'd be running larger injectors and possibly different fuel pressure.

[Wanganstyle]

Do you have knowledge on stock DME's adaptation range? Mainly considering these M60B44 engines - can they be test-driven / warmed up with stock B40 ECU or do they need to be retuned more or less on 0km .. ?


Regarding E85 and emissions, they're much larger when the engine is cold (especially on cold-starts from -20c etc..) but I guess that's not a problem in California :)

m62b44 complete can be fired up on m60b30 sensors and DME. driven also

M60b44 should be no issues for the m60b40 dme to fire up/test driven.