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S54 vs S50???????

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    #16
    Originally posted by Lof8 View Post
    I can't imagine a scenario where the s50 would be the better choice. s54 all day.
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      #17
      Originally posted by Fernflex View Post
      Im not worried about the extra weight, Im worried about the weight distribution and how is going to be affected by the extra weight in the front of the car.
      Here is a link to BMW engines weight uuc motorsportshttp://www.bimmerforums.com/engine_faq.php
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        #18
        Originally posted by e30m3s54turbo View Post
        Here is a link to BMW engines weight uuc motorsportshttp://www.bimmerforums.com/engine_faq.php
        I wouldn't go by that, it's very inconsistent and they don't say where they got the weights from.
        Zinno '89 <24v swap in progress>

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          #19
          Originally posted by Fernflex View Post
          Im not worried about the extra weight, Im worried about the weight distribution and how is going to be affected by the extra weight in the front of the car.
          If you're worried about that, then forget about it and build an S14.
          2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4WD LBZ/Allison
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            #20
            Originally posted by nrubenstein View Post
            If you're worried about that, then forget about it and build an S14.
            agreed. 355bhp s14 is possible. Less cylinders is always less weight.

            racing a screaming 4 cylinder engines is one of the purest feelings; the first bmw I ever drove was a S14- have never forgot the sound.


            Originally posted by Fernflex View Post
            I have both engines Im just afraid of the extra weight the S54 is going to put on my e30 thats why Im considering using instead the S50 on my car.

            I have compared E36M with native S52B32 US vs the same exact E36M with S54. I deleted the AC, the Power steering, the electric aux fan one by one to see the impact of weight on the nose of the car - I HPDE'ed the streetcar 15+ times over a 2 year period on local events.

            the S54 feels a bit taller - it physically is.

            the intake manifold difference in weight is moot - the weight is from the extra IRON (taller deck of the block).
            the OEM s54 rods and pistons could loose some weight with forged items, but don't touch the crankshaft counterweights.

            The Dual vanos item is a little heavier as is the double chain for timing. But needed - don't you DARE delete it!@!@!@@! it gives you a nice lump of torque on the bottom end and it is great for corner exit.

            I'd suggest some custom engine mounts to drop/shift the weight center and going to e36 subframe for native rear sump ability- for ground clearance. e36 engine arms in an e30 are really not that ideal- just like e46M/z4M engine arms in a e36 moves the engine forwards about 1.5 inches and is just wrong.
            Last edited by Wanganstyle; 03-25-2012, 12:47 PM.
            OBD1 M54/M52TU swap as a M50b25

            Z4 non powered steering rack fits e30



            Euro e46 2005/6 320d 6mt gearbox into E30 with M20 hardy and beck 1985 327s engine

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              #21
              Originally posted by Wanganstyle View Post
              I'd suggest some custom engine mounts to drop/shift the weight center
              But you know the can of worms that opens up--Both E34 and stock pan are already pretty close to the subframe, can't see lowering it much. As for shifting it back, like I said, it's a can of worms. Not to say cutting the firewall is unreasonable, but it's not for the faint of heart-- a lot of work for the gain. Also, the majority of custom engine arms people make are steel. Not common to see custom aluminum engine arms. And since we are talking weight, there is a significant bit gained with steel vs. aluminum-- for stock E30 arms (M20) if you weigh the aluminum vs. steel you will find a weight difference of about 7 lbs. for the pair. E36 arms being larger, I think you would possibly be gaining more weight than you are shifting..

              Just some input on the subject. With the heavier engine, there are other places on the nose of the car to lose weight and get back to approximate M20 weight proportions. For instance, Hartge had the plastic bumper/airdam that replaced the chrome bumpers on the early cars. Headlamp buckets can be replaced with later plastic or lightened, bumper supports (assuming late model) can be removed or lightened, and so on.

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                #22
                you will need at least 245 or 255 tires to put down the power to the ground otherwise that s54 is useless .... i run a m30 swap (witch is lighter than s54) on 225 r comp tires and i need more rubber for sure and if it helps you any my car weighed in at 2284 with 56%front 44%rear on an empty tank

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by rThor432 View Post
                  But you know the can of worms that opens up--Both E34 and stock pan are already pretty close to the subframe, can't see lowering it much. As for shifting it back, like I said, it's a can of worms. Not to say cutting the firewall is unreasonable, but it's not for the faint of heart-- a lot of work for the gain. Also, the majority of custom engine arms people make are steel. Not common to see custom aluminum engine arms. And since we are talking weight, there is a significant bit gained with steel vs. aluminum-- for stock E30 arms (M20) if you weigh the aluminum vs. steel you will find a weight difference of about 7 lbs. for the pair. E36 arms being larger, I think you would possibly be gaining more weight than you are shifting..

                  Just some input on the subject. With the heavier engine, there are other places on the nose of the car to lose weight and get back to approximate M20 weight proportions. For instance, Hartge had the plastic bumper/airdam that replaced the chrome bumpers on the early cars. Headlamp buckets can be replaced with later plastic or lightened, bumper supports (assuming late model) can be removed or lightened, and so on.

                  giant can of worms ya.

                  I'm running the M20 euro ALU arms on my m20, its nice feeling. marginally lighter

                  many M30 swap engine arms are heavy steel units. some nice alu would b enice, or an X member setup to just take them directly like a boxxer 4 ;alu stamped plate+engine mounting+x-member (no engine mounting arms.

                  a trans mount setup like a E36M PTG would also gain a tiny bit of ground clearance.

                  I was thinking to retain the rear sump and having the boys at BNB install a e36 subframe into my e30, run a hollow e36 front sway bar and have chassis mounts created for it in front of the sway bar. This would gain decent ground clearance as the e36 slammed will hit rocks with the sway bar and X brace before touching the oil pan.
                  OBD1 M54/M52TU swap as a M50b25

                  Z4 non powered steering rack fits e30



                  Euro e46 2005/6 320d 6mt gearbox into E30 with M20 hardy and beck 1985 327s engine

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Fernflex View Post
                    Im not worried about the extra weight, Im worried about the weight distribution and how is going to be affected by the extra weight in the front of the car.

                    I like your purist passion, and I can tell that you've thought this through, but what is your actual goal? Lap times or pure front to rear+cross weights. If a 911, EVO, and a Mini can be made fairly quick around a racetrack...what is the goal of getting the closest to 50/50 other than the passion to pursue this goal. It seems to me somewhat pointless if you've got perfect E30 balance on scales but are being passed by miata's in a HPDE. There is no glory by being passed by a miata, unless it's yellow with black stripes with an LS1 in it.

                    Shit, get a $2K miata to channel Colin Chapman, but get the S50 to pass Corvettes. Interested to hear your side...

                    Ed
                    1988 E30/S50...now with S52; Track
                    1994 Miata R; ES Solo2
                    1998 Lexus LX470; Wife (Slee'd anyway)
                    2002 BMW 530i; A+ Commuter
                    2002 BMW 325iT; Sport/Premium 5-speed
                    2011 21' EconoTrailer

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                      #25
                      The extra weight is a non issue.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Delraco View Post
                        Without a doubt, you should put both engines in your friend's car. It won't quite double the HP but it'll be close!
                        this.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by call me jack View Post
                          this.
                          S50 in the front and S54 in the rear?
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                            #28
                            Fern is a Vagina.....No COJONES to do the S54 Swap....
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                            1986 "C2 2.7 Alpina" Sedan
                            1987 325ic Black Vert
                            1986 327i Red Track Car RIP 10/10/10
                            1989 325is Henna S50 track car SOLD


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                              #29
                              This is a video last year at VIR on the then new S54 in my car. The first white car is a very fast JP car, the silver car is a Euro 3.2 E36. I hestitated passing but then did and had no issues.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by gobuffs View Post
                                This is a video last year at VIR on the then new S54 in my car. The first white car is a very fast JP car, the silver car is a Euro 3.2 E36. I hestitated passing but then did and had no issues.

                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8cD2Pqwicc
                                Nice! :)
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                                OEM v8 manual chip or dme - https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho....php?p=4938827

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