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    #31
    raise your hand if you've actually had personal experience with the Canadian healthcare system (and not from some stupid youtube video)

    *raises hand*

    Have any of you guys ever been to an "emergency room" in the USA? talk about horrible.
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      #32
      I am still trying to figure this one out~ on issues of goods/products/services with inelastic demand the situation is...odd to say the least.

      Obviously a business can charge whatever it wants for that good. In many definitions health-care is directly in there as the example:

      An example of perfectly inelastic demand would be a life saving drug that people will pay any price to obtain. Even if the price of the drug were to increase dramatically, the quantity demanded would remain the same.

      Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/...#ixzz2Cm3WmfTO
      Since people have to buy it (healthcare) they can charge whatever they want for it. Competition doesn't exist in the normal sense due to when you need it you have to just pay whatever they are asking.


      Have any of you guys ever been to an "emergency room" in the USA? talk about horrible.
      I can personally attest to this since I work in the construction industry. Almost cut off my hand on a table saw.... 6 hour bloody ordeal for about 1 hour with a doctor and almost 5,000 bucks. My good buddy fell through a floor and had a 1x6 go through his leg. He literally fell out of the chair after 3 hours in the waiting room from losing too much blood. Losing blood from a 6ich gash in his leg onto the chair and floor of the hospital. I got to watch his girlfriend pour blood and pieces of leg out of his boot. That was about 10k and he was close to losing his leg from infection the next month. We call his scar his leg-vagina since that is where he got fcked. 3" further north and his voice would be a lot higher too.

      We need people that care, not some asshole who doesn't care because he has enough malpractice insurance that even if you sue him nothing will happen.

      I am not saying obamacare fixes the situation one way or another~ I think it makes it worse~ but for those of us without insurance and those of us with insurance to be equally treated with little-to-no regard I think we have bigger ethical issues to deal with in the inelastic medical industry. People deserve to live and die with respect.

      what happened to letting the market take care of it?
      The market is inelastic~ think about how mechanics have a flat rate manual so they can't price gouge folks on car fixing. It obviously doesn't stop everything but it attempts to keep 'the expert' more honest.

      My friends have mostly talked away hundreds of thousands in medical bills... how? The industry knows they can never pay them back, so they have to gouge out the ones that can (insurance). When your spleen explodes at 19 years old and you don't have insurance because your mom and dad just died in a car accident you are in a bad spot. How long does it take to change a spleen? Like 4 hours? 2 weeks? I don't know.

      To even talk about a hospital being 'profitable' in economic terms means that I would have several dead friends. My family joked about it taking 18 years to finally pay off my little sisters birth/bill (almost 40k). Another friend fell off a waterfall trying to save his dog and almost snapped his leg off at the ankle (100k and lots of metal rods, helicopter rides are more expensive than ambulances). We are lucky because we are rich white people with insurance~ but that costs us $100-$400 a month. Would I rather just give 20% of my paycheck to the 'healthcare fund' or to the 'insurance company' for the same shitty level of care? I don't know, but when the 'insurance company' says they will not pay..... I am really surprised more people don't go militant.
      Last edited by Q5Quint; 11-20-2012, 08:23 AM. Reason: words

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        #33
        Originally posted by nando View Post
        wait, so inefficient, poorly run hospitals that couldn't balance their budgets even before ACA are going to have to close their doors?

        STOP THE PRESS!

        what happened to letting the market take care of it? shouldn't we reward the hospitals that are capable of surviving and thriving rather than continuing to support the ones who require millions of dollars in government subsidies to operate? I thought that was communism? :|
        this.

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          #34
          Hey I know, lets blame everything on Obama.
          Its cloudy today... FUCK YOU OBAMA!

          Comment


            #35
            ^

            AcA is the O mans Crowning achievement and his legacy to the rest of us. While congress are the ones who rammed it though with even reading it, all under pressure and direction from the white house. After all its termed Obama Care and Not Baucus care (as in Max Baucus Chairman of the senate finance committee you know the guys that wrote the AcA yet still freely admit to not reading it).
            Originally posted by Fusion
            If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
            The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


            The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

            Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
            William Pitt-

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Kershaw View Post
              you guys realize that the healthcare industry has really inefficient sections of it and part of reforming it under obamacare was to cut the fat off.

              if less money goes into the healthcare industry, what do you think will happen?
              think about the point you're arguing kershaw
              i know you care about people, we all do.
              but to actually believe the government, the one's who can't figure out how to break even delivering a fucking envelope to my mailbox, are somehow qualified to wring the inefficiencies out of the healthcare industry is a bit optimistic.
              we work with a lot of folks in the healthcare industry, and while a lot of them are sympathetic to the democratic/progessive political points of view, they universally believe obamacare will lower the quality of care.
              it becomes a numbers game, they cannot afford financially to only see 8 diabetic patients a day, counsell them on diet and lifestyle choices that will lower their demand on the healthcare system, because they lose money. now the break even point is 20 patients a day. this from a nurse practitioner with a dietician partner. they each make roughly 50k/yr, and their reimbursement rates are being cut close to 20%.
              so the patients suffer.
              and doctors are now refusing to see medicare patients because they are unprofitable.
              “There is nothing government can give you that it hasn’t taken from you in the first place”
              Sir Winston Churchill

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                #37
                The U.S. medical system is about thirty-sixth, right there with Slovenia, in terms of medical outcomes yet chews its way through twice as much money per person than the medical system in France. France's system is the next most expensive and delivers the best outcomes worldwide. Our system is seriously broken.
                1990 Alpine 325iC.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by tjts1 View Post
                  Hey I know, lets blame everything on Obama.
                  Its cloudy today... FUCK YOU OBAMA!

                  Watch CBS News live and get the latest, breaking news headlines of the day for national news and world news today.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    It doesn't change the fact that it started out as a pejorative.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      California Dave:

                      But our system allows for advancement and development of new Pharmaceuticals, Procedures, technology in all aspects of medial care, and so on and so forth. It lets those things happen because there is a monetary incentive to do so, that does not and can not exist in single payer system bound on the bottom line of public funds.

                      WE and our system here in the US are the ones who have advance the worlds medical standards a 100 fold in the last 70 years, just because the french, english, germans and nearly every other country on the globe, have gotten the befit of what someone else has pioneered and paid to develop dose not make them better. Just makes them a parasite to those actually paid to develop it. Yes there are many medical companies that are not based in the US, but because of the way our system is set up they do what they do to develop new things because of our system not in spite of it. The will make all the money here, since in their home counties, reimbursement is not much more than cost to manufacture, so the cost to develop said advancement will never be recouped. Companies of all creeds are out to make money not lose it.


                      Advancement costs money, and if there is no incentive for persons to take the risks and be able to profit from their ideas and risks then we will see the advancement of medical care stall to a crawl vs the leaps and bounds we have enjoyed since WWII.

                      Why do you think all the foreigners come here to get a MD, then dont go back home to practice full time?? Right they can make more money here in the US in a decade than than practicing in many of their home counties for a century. You start pulling the invectives out of the system, the best and brightest talent will go else where for a career, because lets face the cold reality here, the only reason most people want to become a MD is all about the cash flow.
                      Last edited by mrsleeve; 11-20-2012, 12:26 PM.
                      Originally posted by Fusion
                      If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                      The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                      The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                      Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                      William Pitt-

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by nando View Post
                        raise your hand if you've actually had personal experience with the Canadian healthcare system (and not from some stupid youtube video)

                        *raises hand*

                        Have any of you guys ever been to an "emergency room" in the USA? talk about horrible.
                        I have to kinda agree here. I've been "on the German system" here for about 10 years now. Yes, I hate paying the insurance costs here, but EVERYTHING has always been free (including braces for my daughter), and I have no complaints--even when that 850i fan took off my finger, and it was stuck back on- I didn't have to pay anything, or all of the bone disease treatment and hospitalization (about 3 months) my then 8 y/o daughter.

                        up until now, I have only been to the doctor about 1 time every 2 years, but I have never had any problems or worries.

                        the fear of the unknown. Too much of the U.S. is just way too comfortable and lazy. It's time for a bit of competition out there.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Twice as much as the next highest bidder to come in 36th? Come on!
                          1990 Alpine 325iC.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                            California Dave:

                            But our system allows for advancement and development of new Pharmaceuticals, Procedures, technology in all aspects of medial care, and so on and so forth. It lets those things happen because there is a monetary incentive to do so, that does not and can not exist in single payer system bound on the bottom line of public funds.

                            WE and our system here in the US are the ones who have advance the worlds medical standards a 100 fold in the last 70 years, just because the french, english, germans and nearly every other country on the globe, have gotten the befit of what someone else has pioneered and paid to develop dose not make them better. Just makes them a parasite to those actually paid to develop it. Yes there are many medical companies that are not based in the US, but because of the way our system is set up they do what they do to develop new things because of it not in spite of it. The will make all the money here, since in their home counties, reimbursement is not much more than cost to manufacture, so the cost to develop said advancement will never be recouped. Companies of all creeds are out to make money not lose it.


                            Advancement costs money, and if there is no incentive for persons to take the risks and be able to profit from their ideas and risks then we will see the advancement of medical care stall to a crawl vs the leaps and bounds we have enjoyed since WWII.

                            Why do you think all the foreigners come here to get a MD, then dont go back home to practice full time?? Right they can make more money here in the US in a decade than than practicing in many of their home counties for a century. You start pulling the invectives out of the system, the best and brightest talent will go else where for a career, because lets face the cold reality here, the only reason most people want to become a MD is all about the cash flow.
                            I guess Roche, GlaxoSmithKline, Novartis, Sanofi, AstraZeneca, and Bayer have contributed nothing to medical science because they aren't American, based on your 'logic'. Yup, they are definitely parasites on the world because you said so.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by FL318is View Post
                              A good question.

                              I apologize that I can not be more forthcoming. It is a direct implact of Boobies. I have good sauce.
                              Might as well...

                              Ich gehöre nicht zur Baader-Meinhof Gruppe

                              Originally posted by Top Gear
                              Just imagine waking up and remembering you're Mexican.

                              Every time you buy a car with DSC/ESC, Jesus kills a baby seal. With a kitten.


                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by rwh11385 View Post
                                I guess Roche, GlaxoSmithKline, Novartis, Sanofi, AstraZeneca, and Bayer have contributed nothing to medical science because they aren't American, based on your 'logic'. Yup, they are definitely parasites on the world because you said so.
                                Ummm did you miss this in my post, I covered that already. And I was not referring to companies that develop medical technology, I was referring to countries that have benefited by getting access to better and better medical technology, that would not have been developed in a 100 years in their respective country but were here, because we have been footing the development bills.

                                Originally posted by mrsleeve
                                WE and our system here in the US are the ones who have advance the worlds medical standards a 100 fold in the last 70 years, just because the french, english, germans and nearly every other country on the globe, have gotten the befit of what someone else has pioneered and paid to develop dose not make them better. Just makes them a parasite to those actually paid to develop it. Yes there are many medical companies that are not based in the US, but because of the way our system is set up they do what they do to develop new things because of our system not in spite of it. The will make all the money here, since in their home counties, reimbursement is not much more than cost to manufacture,so the cost to develop said advancement will never be recouped. Companies of all creeds are out to make money not lose it.

                                Originally posted by DaveNorCal
                                Twice as much as the next highest bidder to come in 36th? Come on!
                                Originally posted by mrsleeve
                                Advancement costs money
                                And LOTS OF IT. Which would you rather support, the development of new medical technology that will help billions, thanks to it being used all over the world, or just have mediocrity and fairness all around???
                                Last edited by mrsleeve; 11-20-2012, 12:40 PM.
                                Originally posted by Fusion
                                If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                                The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                                The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                                Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                                William Pitt-

                                Comment

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