Tax by the miles driven instead of gas tax

[Dozyproductions]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/east-coast-states-want-to-tax-drivers-travel-not-their-gas/2016/06/25/9d4d1488-395c-11e6-8f7c-d4c723a2becb_story.html

A group of East Coast states wants to help overhaul the way America pays for its decaying roads, and it’s starting with Monopoly money.

Delaware, Pennsylvania, Connecticut and New Hampshire are proposing pilots to figure out how they might charge motorists a fee for the miles they travel — rather than taxing their gas, as state and federal officials do today.

Any bet if this would happen, that the gas tax would some how magically stay intact? Some people are saying this is already a thing in Oregon and will start becoming a thing in California. With all the money wasted everywhere else on the state and federal level, the only genius things the governments can do is think up new ways to tax us. What a fucking joke.

[roguetoaster]

There really is no way around a usage tax, whether it be at the pump or read off of the odometer. However, the tax at the pump is the better of the two as it is less likely to be gamed/cheated/falsified, and isn't a privacy concern at all.

So, raise the damn gas tax already, maybe fix the giant projects that need fixing, not just pot holes, and leave the DMV/MVA fees alone.

[BraveUlysses]

There really is no way around a usage tax, whether it be at the pump or read off of the odometer. However, the tax at the pump is the better of the two as it is less likely to be gamed/cheated/falsified, and isn't a privacy concern at all.

So, raise the damn gas tax already, maybe fix the giant projects that need fixing, not just pot holes, and leave the DMV/MVA fees alone.

Yup, this.

[jpod999]

+3

I was driving through Oakland on Saturday and 880N/S is seriously just in shambles. The infrastructure around here in some places is ridiculous.

[Dozyproductions]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/states-siphon-gas-tax-for-other-uses-1405558382

Older article but still relevant:

States are allotting a growing share of the funds they raise from gas taxes to debt service and spending unrelated to roads and bridges, making them more reliant on federal assistance to pay for new infrastructure.

As usual instead, of use the money they have more efficiently, or just realistically, just take away more from the tax payer. Don't be fooled in to thinking that the gas tax will be gone too and that all the DMV fees will stop growing.

[Das Delfin]

I wouldn't be surprised to see that here in CT. We already have some of the highest income taxes, why stop there??

Probably going to be some sort of OBD2 adapter which tracks your miles and then they charge you a fee if you opt out. Kinda like how medical insurance is done.

I don't see why they don't just use toll roads like they've been doing for years. The mass pike has a system where you pay your toll at the exit. So you pay more or less money depending on how far you drive. It's easy

[roguetoaster]

As usual instead, of use the money they have more efficiently, or just realistically, just take away more from the tax payer. Don't be fooled in to thinking that the gas tax will be gone too and that all the DMV fees will stop growing.

Yes, it's an unfortunate occurance, and if we could get the media to report on misappropriation of allocated funds maybe those responsible wouldn't hold office any longer.

It's crazy to think that the gov't would actually eliminate a tax and not replace it with a different tax that brings in more revenue. Still don't see why someone doesn't collect their balls from wherever they're kept and just state the obvious "we need to raise taxes," or "we're spending money we don't have and we need to cut expenditures." Heaven forbid.

The funny thing is that I think we could cover our expenses and start saving with minimal tax hikes & intelligent funding cuts. Will it happen? No, because our system of government is somewhat broken, not irreparably, but certainly in need of reform.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that here in CT. We already have some of the highest income taxes, why stop there??

Probably going to be some sort of OBD2 adapter which tracks your miles and then they charge you a fee if you opt out. Kinda like how medical insurance is done.

I don't see why they don't just use toll roads like they've been doing for years. The mass pike has a system where you pay your toll at the exit. So you pay more or less money depending on how far you drive. It's easy

I will 100% roll back my odometer if some sort of system of self-reporting or inspection is enacted to avoid paying what will undoubtedly be structured as a fee system to get old cars off the road.

Toll roads also seem to be an issue, with gov't increasingly "deciding" to go with private management/initial funding. Further, toll roads don't make much sense to me as they generally penalize those least able to afford the fees, and have no impact on others who can afford them, especially those that use a "demand" based rate.

Basically, toll roads should be 100% in the public domain, should create local jobs, or shouldn't exist. They also need a user friendly system that does not require a specialized pass that out of state travelers might not have, forcing them to pay an additional fee as it's just too much trouble to have a toll plaza in some cases (fairly common in new projects, esp near DC).

[mrsleeve]

well I am 100% for the pay by the mile usage tax, If you have a 100% E.V. Or if you have a hybrid that is set up as primarily an E.V. with petrochemicals as range extender but at slightly lesser rate. Or any other set up running an "alternate" fuel source not commonly available for retail sale as a motor fuel for on highway use (though if you are doing this your supposed to keep your miles/fuel use logged and show your paying up quarterly) .

Other wise not just no but FUCK no. Back door into getting a GPS monitoring device installed on everything, or getting more old cars off the road al - la cash for clunkers . We have several other threads about this

[TimeMachinE30]

Ya. Government just needs more money. That will fix things.

They pushed casinos down our throats here. Don't worry, it is for the kids with the money going to education and of course roads. Billboards talking about how much revenue. Teachers here have not had a raise in 10 years and schools are in need of a lot of work... where did the money go?

[roguetoaster]

Ya. Government just needs more money. That will fix things.

They pushed casinos down our throats here. Don't worry, it is for the kids with the money going to education and of course roads. Billboards talking about how much revenue. Teachers here have not had a raise in 10 years and schools are in need of a lot of work... where did the money go?

If we only knew...

Sometimes common sense (yes, yes, not common, I know) approaches would be more sensible, raise the taxes, fix the XYZ, hire more gov't workers, give people raises, don't axe pensions, don't waste money on BS projects (looking at you ICC), but who has time for that, when you could just give a preferential contract and take a kickback.

[Kershaw]

But at least the ICC is now 6% cheaper! Whoa there, Hogan, pulling out all the stops to make things affordable!

It cost $2.56b and produces $40m/yearly. So, without any maintenance or other cost, it'll take 64 years to pay off. But will it ever get paid off? I don't know. It was mostly paid for with bonds so hopefully it does or people will lose a lot of money. Then again, I doubt the MTA can default on it's debt.

[TimeMachinE30]

But at least the ICC is now 6% cheaper! Whoa there, Hogan, pulling out all the stops to make things affordable!

It cost $2.56b and produces $40m/yearly. So, without any maintenance or other cost, it'll take 64 years to pay off. But will it ever get paid off? I don't know. It was mostly paid for with bonds so hopefully it does or people will lose a lot of money. Then again, I doubt the MTA can default on it's debt.

It is a start... beats taxing the rain.. oh wait.. .

[nando]

My biggest concern would be increasing use of tracking or datalogging devices that can be used against you. It's bad enough we have those awful driving logger programs for insurance companies.

if the aim is to encourage people to use more fuel efficient cars, the gas tax makes a lot more sense. The few I see driving around in Hummer H1s (gas here is still about $4 a gallon) pay a disproportionate amount of taxes, but that's their own fault.

I think people are just sensitive to gas tax increases because it's so visible, but with a usage tax you wouldn't know what your bill was until it came due.

Our city actually voted to increase the gas tax by 3 cents a gallon. If you'd seen our roads, you would understand. Years of neglect by previous administrations and no meaningful fundraising - some of them are practically gravel. But now they finally have a budget for maintenance (that's right, they had a $0 budget for decades), and are working on repairing what's left of our roads.

[djjerme]

My biggest concern would be increasing use of tracking or datalogging devices that can be used against you. It's bad enough we have those awful driving logger programs for insurance companies.

if the aim is to encourage people to use more fuel efficient cars, the gas tax makes a lot more sense. The few I see driving around in Hummer H1s (gas here is still about $4 a gallon) pay a disproportionate amount of taxes, but that's their own fault.

I think people are just sensitive to gas tax increases because it's so visible, but with a usage tax you wouldn't know what your bill was until it came due.

Our city actually voted to increase the gas tax by 3 cents a gallon. If you'd seen our roads, you would understand. Years of neglect by previous administrations and no meaningful fundraising - some of them are practically gravel. But now they finally have a budget for maintenance (that's right, they had a $0 budget for decades), and are working on repairing what's left of our roads.

Have you seen the roads around Portland?

And that is not from underfunding despite what they want you to believe. It's misappropriation of funds. No money for maintenance, but tons of cash for Bioswells, speed bumps and other "traffic calming devices" (which cause more emissions if you think about the concept), bike boxes, converting roads to bike boulevards, adding bike lanes next to bike lanes (wish I was joking) and basically telling any who drive to F*ck off.

"The city that works!" - Portland

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5517...7i13312!8i6656

Check out the above link - and scroll it back to 2007-2014, you can see how they realigned it.

[roguetoaster]

There seems to be this idea that cars are the major polluter, which makes no sense if you consider ships, trucks, and industry. I know that the more you tax the shipping industry it creates a disproportionate increase in the cost of consumer goods, but really, cars don't seem the be the major issue. Light duty trucks and SUVs OTOH are, but they tend to be owned by people say they who cannot afford higher taxes despite 12MPG, 80 mile commutes, and a two pack a day habit. Hmm.

But we do have to remember that people still seem to think that buying a new mild hybrid is super green, but only if you don't consider manufacturing or end of life disposal.

Somehow, if we can break that flawed logic stream I feel that we'd be okay, but then we'll have another election cycle and it will all go to hell yet again.