Vorshlag $2010 GRM Challenge car - BMW E30 V8

[Farbin Kaiber]

IS he hinting that it's an LTx then?

[JoeyBones]

if so, the tranny isn't correct, or doesnt look right from the mount he made. I'm still thinking it's an import. I'd say lexus UZ, but not sure what tranny, unless the getrag v160 from the 2jz/supra would bolt up with a bell housing swap or direct? Surely wouldn't leave it an auto..

perhaps he got a smokin deal and picked up a German beauty?

[Fair!]

Update for June 18th, 2010: It was a busy night with a record 10 different GRM Team members showing up at one point or another, with another 3-4 that couldn't make it. The GRM Project Team has really grown and I honestly lost count! Thanks to everyone who came by last night to work. :) I didn't do much on the car myself until the wee hours of the morning, long after everyone had left, as I was performing some drywall/insulation repairs all night in preparation for some work a plumber is here wrapping up this morning.

A bit of what was done last night can't be shown yet. Motor stuff. The power steering pump is on so now almost all the accessories are in place, which will let me get the radiator mocked-up and I can work on brackets and the main coolant lines this weekend. I did get the radiator in place at about 3 am and found some used radiator hoses that I can cut-up and splice together to use on this motor. Some are from this very car and others are from a box of used BMW hoses I keep for "emergency spares". Both of my E46s got a full "pre-emptive coolant system replacement", so their old hoses will make good donors.


A well used, stock E36 radiator (used for years in the Alpha car) sits in place with a good 1/2" to the front of the motor (ha!)

We used some more old radiator hoses for the fuel filler neck relocation, as well as an old BMW swaybar bracket. This car is getting all sorts of recycled parts! The original filler neck location (at the passenger side rear fender) is getting covered up by flares soon and the filler neck/vent tubes were in the way of the 18x11" wheels, on the inside rim area. Now the filler neck will be at the back of the trunk for somewhat easy fill-ups. More importantly I won't spend 6+ hours relocating the stock filler door assembly in the left rear wheel flare, and doing more bodywork (shudder) to make it look pretty. I think I found the swaybar bracket, but Derek and Chris tackled the heavy lifting on this one and it came out great.


Fuel filler neck and cap relocation worked great and cost $0

More inboard rear wheel room was found by chopping off part of the rear upper spring perch, which is over-sized for the 60mm coilover springs we'll be using. Chris manned the plasma cutter and Derek welded up the new edge to gain us about 3/4" inboard on both sides.




Left: more room gained here out back for the 18x11" wheels. Right: Up front there's plenty of room to the E36 strut/spring

Our newest team member Brian kept busy all night and got the HVAC box buttoned up put the dash back in. This was a job nobody wanted to touch, and he did it with a smile. :) Other than one trim ring around the gauge cluster (which I had never seen in place - it came with the car in the trunk) and the center console (awaiting my tunnel patch repair) the dash bits are done.





Costas built some E36 steering rack bushings to get the height of the rack set relative to the E30 K-member, so its finally wrapped up. He also got the custom 2-piece steering shaft (which may or may not make it in the final $2010 budget) installed, Loctited, and marked with paint to show its done.



Sean pulled the trans crossmember off, cleaned it up and painted it, then I bolted it back on this morning. We also got the V6 Camaro steel driveshaft (came with the trans) in place and marked for a simple cut/weld, which we'll do over the weekend.



Question: Can someone who knows more about E30 fuel systems than any of us tell me what each of these fuel lines is at the tank?


Left: What is all of this crap? Right: New rotors installed last Tuesday night

Chris got the inspection cover off from the rear seat area and we all got a little bleary-eyed trying to figure out the fuel system and vent routing. So... many... lines... There are 3 lines going to the old filler neck (a vent, spillover tube, and ???) and some more coming out of this cover that we cannot identify. It looks like there's a pump inside the tank and an external as well - is this a crossover pump? We might have to drop the tank (which isn't a bad idea - the old fuel needs to be cleaned out and a big dent pushed out) to figure all of this out over the weekend. We got a used, stock Subaru 200 lph electric pump for $0 (it was being thrown out/replaced) that should feed our little motor, which I had planned on putting inside the tank in place of the stocker.

A 4 liter SPA fire system is headed our way from Elephant Motorsports (thanks Jack!), so that will go in next week, along with the aluminum seat and a custom slider (which I dread making). Over this coming weekend I want to get the coolant lines to the heater core, a remote reservoir (that I need to scrounge to find), and the radiator completed; radiator brackets built; power steering hoses made/started; master cylinder mounted/plumbed; the LR fender plasma cut for the big wheels; the driveshaft wrapped up; original front fenders installed and cut for tire clearance; and get a start on the headers. I might be getting some bodywork help for Saturday, as David is flying in from Boston for the weekend and wants to lend a hand. Paul M is coming by to machine that speed sensor spacer for the diff cover, and I think McCall is stopping by Saturday as well.

If anyone in the DFW area that is good with bodywork and/or paint wants to join the team, we need you!

Check in on Monday for more updates,

[JoeyBones]

damn, this is my favorite thread on this site i think. I wish I could do all this!

[etxxz]

skipping a few pages to make a comment on the 5-lug suspension. The lollipop. I'm sure you have the offset bushing blah blah blah. If you machone the holes into slots and move the lollipop outwards (towards the door and frame rail) you can move the wheel forward. Ideally with you capabilities, you would make your own lollipop mount and weld it to the head of the lollipop itself... or make something like a spherical bearing end for the CA. Just ideas to help you play with that rear CA mount location. I slotted my lollipop, i'm centered, i drift my 5-lug setup @ full lock all day.

[Fair!]

Update for June 22, 2010: Busy Monday - sorry this update is a day late. I worked part of Saturday and all day Sunday in the shop with a bit of help both days. I spent Saturday morning working on Paul M's Subaru project then spent the afternoon attacking our E30 project. Saturday afternoon Chris, McCall, and his cousin David (our very remote paint & bodywork consultant) were here and we hacked away at some bodywork related bits. On Sunday Brian joined me for various other fab chores.


Chris got the Right Front and Left Rear fenders plasma cut for the big tires

Paul M came by and machined us a nylon spacer for the speed sensor, to allow the E36 diff cover to clear the reluctor ring in the E30 diff. With a little cutting on the backside of the cover and some longer bolts it should work nicely. Chris got to plasma cutting and some other jobs while David got to making us a mock-up flare. He was going to do some bodywork but every section that needed his attention was too FUBAR to complete in one day. So I was his assistant while he worked his flare design magic in cardboard... he was itching to move straight to metal, but we ran out of time.





The mock-up is sort of crude but he gave me a lot of good ideas and tips on how to make these from 20 gauge sheet with minimal welding/warpage. If we get time before UTCC I will attack these, otherwise it will happen in August/September, before paint and before the October GRM Challenge.

McCall spent the afternoon cutting out a piece of sheet metal to cover the mangled mess that was the transmission tunnel. The previous owners hacked out a huge hole just forward of the shifter hole (to do some repair?) that they then slapped some fiberglass over. The new T5 shifter poked up right between these two holes, so he cut the whole area out and made this patch with the proper shifter hole and locating stud for the console in it.



On Sunday I did the final fit-up for the shifter and welded it in place, then covered the seam in some leftover seam sealer from the E46 roof swap. Then I primed and painted it all, mocked up the shifter and rowed through the gears.





I finished that up on Sunday, then Brian and I made a front driveshaft loop:



Then Brian cut the old mounts off the condenser and we started mounting the E30's electric aux (a/c) fan in front of the radiator.



Last but not least we made some lightweight upper radiator brackets out of some scraps of scraps of 20 gauge sheet. Some old heater hose was cut up and used for rubber grommets in the top of the used E36 radiator and these brackets clip into those and bolt to the old forward flipping hood hinge mounts (we're going to pin the hood on to save weight). I dinged the radiator support on one side slightly to get the radiator as far forward as possible. the lower part of the radiator just sits on top of the stock E30 rubber mounts - this was an easy radiator swap, actually. I found the old E30 remote coolant reservoir so we'll make a mount for it and re-use it. Recycle, reuse! :D



So I've moved the work schedule (at least mine!) up to 6 days a week to try to meet our deadlines... 4 nights and both weekend days. Still looking for a used E36 high pressure power steering hose (just need the rack banjo end) and we still desperately need a paint and body volunteer.

The GRM crew is already arriving so I'm going out to the shop to work some more!

[Fair!]

Update for June 23, 2010: We had a large crew on hand last night, and got some more done on the E30. We don't have many pictures this morning but I'll show what I've got. I worked most of the evening on the headers and I got the upper part of all four primaries on one side done. Can't show that yet. :)



Paul C and Chris and some others worked on pulling the fuel tank. It had a lot of fuel in it - who knows how old that crud is? Old fuel tends to turn to varnish and plug up everything. They drained it (into a container for me to take and have disposed of properly today), removed in-tank transfer pump and fuel level sender, and yanked the plethora of vent lines. We're going to wash it out a bit, once its free of fuel fumes we're going to bang out the massive dent on the bottom of one side of the saddle tank. Then put it back in later this week and start to route our fuel lines. Normally we'd slap new -8 braided fuel lines and AN fittings on everything and be done with it. But for a $2010 car we're re-using the stock feed and return hard lines - they should just barely be big enough for our modest power goals for this engine - to save on material costs.



He also cleaned up the ragged edges on the front fender left behind by the plasma cutter. He used the air nibbler, which is a noisy little air tool that makes beautifully clean cuts in thin sheet metal.



Paul M clearanced the E36 diff cover for the E30 reluctor ring, and now it all clears with the speed sensor moved back .300" with the nylon spacer he made last weekend.



McCall pulled the E36 front calipers and disassembled them for a quick seal rebuild. He got the bodies cleaned inside and out with a brass wire wheel. The pistons looked good but the seals were definitely trashed - not exactly shocking from calipers that we rescued that someone was throwing away.



The old E30's a/c electric fan got mounted to the radiator surround by Paul C and Chris with a little help from me late in the evening. We re-used the old rubber mounts at all 3 points and made some simple brackets to bolt it all to the car. The finished result is rigid, has room for a power steering cooler (if we add one) behind it, and uses the factory wiring.


That's all of last nights work I can show... more work tonight, Thursday night and Saturday.

Cheers,

[JoeyBones]

holy crap, you have a Ford 5.0L 302 don't you?! It fits with the T5 shifter you mention, the v6 camaro drive shaft, and staying v8 without creating a custom bell housing and adapters to mount a T5 to some other v8.... Not to mention they can be had dirt cheap!

Should be able to pull some pretty decent power from it.

Edit: Can I say, that originally I wasn't a fan of vorshlag for just retarded reasons. Reading this thread, and seeing how ya'll really are actually PART of the community gives me a great feeling, and willingness to fully support the company and use the products (when i can afford them).

[Jonny Cash]

Looks like an impressive project, we're all interested to see what people are doing, but I cant understand why you wouldnt tell us what motor youre using. You showed us basically everything else, by that logic why not keep it behind closed doors all together?

[IRUNEDM]

sick build. cant wait to see it finished!

[Fair!]

Update for June 24, 2010: I didn't get to work on the E30 or E46 last night, but worked on Paul M's Subaru instead (we got the transmission in!).

Today we had to put another car where the E30 was, so we realized its finally together enough to bolt wheels on, steer and roll around. We pushed it outside for a second and I snapped some pics, showing the current state of the car now. I've hidden the engine (which is in and being wired up/headers built) but nothing else.





Yea... with these big 18" wheels and lots of wheel gap, it looks redonkulous.



Just seeing what I didn't cover up is probably revealing too much. :D

More project car work tonight - people are already starting to arrive. Lots to do!

[JoeyBones]

hmmm... *opening images in high tech fancy image processing software*....enhance....enhance....enhance.....enh ance....enhance

[Fair!]

Some guys on another forum who keep trying to guess the engine keep coming up with wacky options... one of them was adamant that its a Lotus V8 twin turbo. Well damn if he wasn't right!

:D ... I love photoshop...

Update for June 25, 2010: We had a crew of 5 last night and we got a bit more work knocked out.

I was looking at the back fender areas we had clearanced for the big tires, and it was a jagged mess after the plasma cutter did its thing through both layers of sheet metal. I was trying to tie the inner fender structure back to the outer fender contour, to give it strength, to keep water/fumes out of the passenger area, and to give us a sturdy structure to build the flares off of at a later date.



I started by grinding off the plasma'd edge, which was pretty nasty and had globs of molten steel that had fused into little "steelcicles". Once that was cleaned up it was time to join the two edges - the inner and outer fenders. This is usually a royal pain on an E36, as there's 3 layers and they are usually pretty far apart after you cut upwards for bigger tires, but on the E30 they weren't that far apart when cut up ~3" or so. The cut fenders started out flapping and flimsy, but by inching along with careful tack welds, hammering the inner structure into shape between tacks, I found that I could join the two structures pretty easily.



I had a little trouble on the left rear, as the guy who plasma'd that one cut too much off the inside and I had a 1" gap between the sheets for about 7" of length. I took a piece of scrap 20 gauge, cut it with the hand sheers, and tacked it to the inner structure. Then I hammered it over the edge at the same ~90° angle that the rest of the curved edge had formed, and then welded it to the outer sheet metal. Its all going to be covered up eventually. After about 2 hours both fenders were fully joined along the entire arch lengths and were mostly water tight. We'll go over the joined seams with "kitty hair putty" (fiberglass infused resin) or the seam sealer, at least.



The old E30 coolant reservoir was found in one of the big boxes of "old stuff we removed", and we found a new place to hide it - behind the passenger side strut tower. Its out of the way here but still located up high for better filling/bleeding. We even found the old coolant level sensor, which capped off the top. We made some brackets out of a few inches of bent 1/8" steel strap welded to the strut tower, drilled a couple of holes, then seam sealed and painted them. The reservoir bolts in place with the hardware from Tractor Supply Co's "buy it by the pound" super cheap 3/8" inch sized bolts and nuts. You can buy Grade 8 SAE bits there for dirt cheap - and no, they don't sell metric anything. Again, we'd normally try to keep a German car 100% metric, but at this budget we can't be that picky!



After cleaning up the jagged cut edge in the trunk floor opening, Brian P spent the evening inside the cabin installing more interior bits, like the gauge surround and the center console. Looks like we need to trim the console opening a tick to clear the shifter (doh!) but we'll try to make it look as stock as possible. The carpet will go in after UTCC, but before the GRM Challenge. No need to add fuel for the fire for the VIR event. :D



Next up was a caliper rebuild for the front, and our new stock brake hoses arrived Thursday as well. Oh, we could have bought new non-M E36 calipers @ $0 to the budget ("OEM brakes/parts are free"), but we got these for dirt cheap and the seal rebuild kits were like $5/each. We figured - why not paint them red? That's worth at least +15 hp. I had a can of some ancient "high heat red" engine paint, probably from the 1990s, and Sean gave the calipers a few coats of red just for fun. The paint will likely vaporize during the first lap on track, but what the hell.



Fitting the E36 non-M rear brakes are more of a challenge than the front, as we're stuck with old E30 trailing arms which were made for different caliper bolt spacings and rotor diameters. Chris spent some time and carefully cut off the old cast steel caliper mounts from the trailing arms, cooling the metal to avoid damaging the bearings or paint on the unit. He cut them off and ground the pad flat, and now we'll build some new caliper brackets. A steel shop in town gave me a 6" x 6" piece of 1/2" plate that was in there "drops pile", and we'll cut out a new bracket and weld the sucker on at the correct offset for these brakes and the unusual E36 non-M hub locations (which are 3/4" more inboard than the E30 hubs).



Matt cleaned up the greasy E30 LSD diff we purchased for this build ($100!) and shot it with some black spray paint. Its the real diff getting the E36 rear cover soon and going in the car. Hope it works. Thanks to everyone that came Thursday night - come by Saturday if you've got any time. :)

[Fair!]

Update for June 28, 2010: Paul Magyar and Paul Costas both came by Saturday morning to work on the E30 project while I was making seat brackets for my E46 330 DSP car (I had a race the next day, of course!). They got a lot done in about 4 hours of work, then Costas stuck around another couple of hours to help me design and build the slider seat bracket for my 330 (and I worked till midnight to get them both built and harnesses in the car - and raced Sunday in 102° heat - but it was fun!). Here's where we are:



Magyar machined the little plug above that we needed for an extra oil dipstick tube we aren't using. He took a chunk of scrap round bar (that was an old tool rest for a band saw I threw out last year) and whittled out this little piece. Even added an O-ring groove and a chamfer. Pretty slick! Above he's shown shortening a piece of old fuel filler neck tubing for use on custom radiator hoses (see below).



Then they got the E36 diff cover onto the E30 LSD 2.79 rear diff that we're using in the car, made an RTV gasket, and got it bolted in the car. Then they put the driveshaft we cut/welded in the car, then the E30 half shafts and got the back of the car mostly buttoned up. I picked up the AST4100 rears from AST today, that we're using just for the UTCC event (the used Bilsteins will be on the car for the $2010 GRM Challenge) and we'll install the shocks tonight.



You can also see the custom radiator hose they built, made from two old/used radiator hoses. They spliced the various bends together using a piece of tubing that was once part of this E30's fuel filler neck (more recycled parts - I never throw anything away if I can help it!) and it worked great. Costas showed us a neat trick he learned from ThinkFast author & IndyCar engineer Neil Roberts - how to safety wire a worm gear hose clamp so it never gets loose:



That trick was so slick I had to share it. You can buy Neil's excellent book here at Vorshlag. :)

I bought a little piece of aluminum bar at a machine supply place today for a few bucks that Magyar will machine into various fittings and adapters for the heater hose and coolant reservoir piping (that I'd normally buy - but its all about saving budget money at this point). This car will have a functional heater/defrost, of course.

A bunch of parts are going on the car tonight, so I should have another, "more meaty" update tomorrow. The 3 day weekend coming up? Its full court press time!!

[Fair!]

Update for June 30, 2010: We had a nice sized crew last night and worked on several things. We worked on a number of things that I cannot show yet, including the hybrid power steering hose and the upper radiator hose, both of which are done and on the car. The throttle cable is as well. Here's the stuff we can show...


First off was the fuel tank - it went back in after it was removed/cleaned/painted last weekend, and some short sections of new fuel hose were added, a few things were capped off, and others were re-routed. Nice to have the tank buttoned up and checked off the list. Then Sean and Chris installed the red painted (bling!) E36 non-M calipers and checked that off the build list, and there's a gratuitous trans crossmember picture as well (painted), from underneath the car.



Chris and Sean removed the E30 tie rods I had installed a few weeks ago - as they were much too long. The car had 2" of toe out and we ran out of adjustment. So if you've got an E36 spindle, E36 struts, and E36 steering rack - stick with the E36 tie rods. We reinstalled the old ones that came on this E36 rack, and now the toe can adjust back into a usable zone. Sorry guys... I made some extra work for yall.



Brian Hanchey of AST-USA stopped by after hours to pick up some parts and got a laugh watching 5 people try to do the work of two. ;) Eventually I found something for some idle hands to do on the front of the car, so McCall and I could mock-up the E36 caliper brackets, calipers, pads and rotors on the E30 trailing arm.



Since this is a Frankenstein rear brake creation, we knew we had to make new caliper brackets and weld them to the trailing arm. Since we went to E36 non-M rear rotors (to match the E36 non-M front rotors/calipers and master cylinder we're using), the Z3 rear calipers need to be spaced away from the trailing arm father to compensate for the slightly larger (1/2"?) rear rotor diameter. And since we have a goofy conglomeration of E36 non-M hubs, E36 rotors, and E30 trailing arms, the caliper offset is all wrong. We mocked everything up, added compressed air (see left picture, above) to the brake line, and that squeezed the caliper tight to the rotor at the correct placement. We added .050" thick shims to space the caliper bracket away from the edge of the rotor and measured the gap between the old mounting bracket and where it needed to weld to.



We painted some layup fluid onto the small piece of 1/2" plate scrap I scored last week, traced the old caliper mount brackets Chris cut off the E30 trailing arms, added the distance we needed for proper rotor spacing, then McCall started drilling the 10mm holes. Next, we'd cut it out on the band saw and tack weld it on.... but...

I broke the blade on my crappy band saw last Saturday (forcing me to use a cut off wheel on a die grinder to complete my E46 seat brackets - and pissing me off royally), so I picked up a new blade yesterday. Installed it last night while McCall was drilling, and something looked... wrong. Dammit, the teeth are pointing the wrong way! It cannot cut with the blade oriented backwards, and you can't flip it without cutting and re-welding the blade - gotta get a new one today. So we had no band saw to cut the caliper pattern out, and that ended the night at 11:30 PM. Oh well, I got an excuse to finally watch last week's European Grand Prix. What a race!

Magyar and I are working on the car tonight, wrapping up the cooling system hoses/adapters and other plumbing issues, and I'll finally mount the power steering cooler.