The 5 lug swap truth thread!!!!!!!!!!

[etxxz]

Originally Posted by mikeedler

dug out the very first allignment specs sheet.
I forgot to add in my orig. post-- I also have an assload of washers on the lower bolts of the strut tube to give the car a better amount of camber.

here is what I have........


L/F camber -0°48´ R/F -0°54´
toe 0°06´ 0°06´


L/R camber -1°54´ R/R -2°18´
toe (crapy but cant do anything 0°12´ -0°18´


and the F**King caster isnt on the crappy sheet, I will stick it on there next week again and get that.

hmmm i had the same problem on the front. With the washers and EVEN with maxed out camber plates i'd have little camber up front.

lower your LR, give you a bit more camber and match it up if you have coilovers.

your car should drive straight as a bullet. I'd look at slop in your steering components - bushings tie rods balljoints. You have a better alignment that me. OR if your tires are worn unevenly that'll do it too!


@psyber_Optix: that's why i added a brake bias on the front brake line, otherwise the brake bias to the front is ridiculous. I tuned it originally to lock up all four at nearly the same point/threshhold, but that proved to be dangerous at the track so i opened up the front a bit. The point was to use the rear brakes for something. Brake Bias valve is a MUST on e36 stuff. Otherwise, that person is a poser and i will hate all i want. I have the right to be a hater..

[mikeedler]

Originally Posted by etxxz

hmmm i had the same problem on the front. With the washers and EVEN with maxed out camber plates i'd have little camber up front.

lower your LR, give you a bit more camber and match it up if you have coilovers.

your car should drive straight as a bullet. I'd look at slop in your steering components - bushings tie rods balljoints. You have a better alignment that me. OR if your tires are worn unevenly that'll do it too!

LR? I have a rear subframe at the sandblaster that will be recieving the adj. crap whenever it gets back to get the rear to reasonable specs.

Everything EVERYTHING on my front end is BRANDNEW original BMW components including the brakes front and rear. I am running coilovers too, but am already VERY low.

[Javier h]

So the M3 e30 setup would be the way to go for a 5 lug swap, right?

Are there any issues?

[DTM190]

Originally Posted by Javier h

So the M3 e30 setup would be the way to go for a 5 lug swap, right?

Are there any issues?

Finding the parts at a reasonable price is the main hurdle.

[etxxz]

Originally Posted by mikeedler

LR? I have a rear subframe at the sandblaster that will be recieving the adj. crap whenever it gets back to get the rear to reasonable specs.

Everything EVERYTHING on my front end is BRANDNEW original BMW components including the brakes front and rear. I am running coilovers too, but am already VERY low.

your rear specs look good. the e30 trailing arms have this geometry such that the camber changes A LOT as it compresses. so if you lower your e30 is the same as compression you get camber. lower one, or raise the other. that's what coilovers are for ; /

[Jason89i]

Originally Posted by mikeedler

d......
here is what I have........

L/R camber -1°54´ R/R -2°18´
toe (crapy but cant do anything 0°12´ -0°18´
...............

before you go start saying "5 lug sucks" blah blah blah.... fix your rear toe. anything close to positive rear toe will make the car EXTREMELY darty at high speeds.

as a bmw tech, you should know this.

Originally Posted by mikeedler

I have been driving my 5 lug swap car for a few weeks now .....
front-- e36 coilovers (raceland)
non M brakes
97 &up control arms
E30 M3 lollipops
E36 steeringrack


wheels are 17x8 style 5 BBS e34 fittment ET 20 somrthin.

It looks like you used the e36-325i king pins........and i bet your caster is +/- 9.8 . Might consider using the right kingpins.

cheers, jason

[mikeedler]

Originally Posted by Jason89i

before you go start saying "5 lug sucks" blah blah blah.... fix your rear toe. anything close to positive rear toe will make the car EXTREMELY darty at high speeds.

as a bmw tech, you should know this.



It looks like you used the e36-325i king pins........and i bet your caster is +/- 9.8 . Might consider using the right kingpins.

cheers, jason

as a tech, I stated I am not happy with the specs of the rear toe, but it is still within BMW's specs.
and what are the correct knuckles to use? as from what I have searched, except for M from a 318 to a 328, they are all the same. AND I am 100% sure the kingpin will NOT change the incorrect caster it is just larger bearings.

So once again, its a crappy setup that is not correct and still handles like crap. the car drove for over 20 years with that rear axle and it wasn't darty.

[psyber_0ptix]

Originally Posted by mikeedler

as a tech, I stated I am not happy with the specs of the rear toe, but it is still within BMW's specs.
and what are the correct knuckles to use? as from what I have searched, except for M from a 318 to a 328, they are all the same. AND I am 100% sure the kingpin will NOT change the incorrect caster it is just larger bearings.

So once again, its a crappy setup that is not correct and still handles like crap. the car drove for over 20 years with that rear axle and it wasn't darty.

the 96+ e36 m3 kingpins/knuckles are indeed different and are needed to do this properly. Give it a shot before you claim it won't work. what can you base your 100% assurance on?

[Van Westervelt]

So glad I dont have to deal with any of this. E30 m3 bits, ftw.

[Stephen]

seems like alot of work and hassle to have a shitty wheel selection

[Jason89i]

Originally Posted by mikeedler

as a tech,

no credentials needed. it is ok to come here and post opinions. just dont spread mis-information under the title "im a bmw tech."

Originally Posted by mikeedler

AND I am 100% sure the kingpin will NOT change the incorrect caster it is just larger bearings.

your still wrong. there is indeed geometry differences between the e36 and e36m kingpins.

cheers, jason

[psyber_0ptix]

Originally Posted by Van Westervelt

So glad I dont have to deal with any of this. E30 m3 bits, ftw.

This is definitely the most performance effective route, its lighter and offers perfect braking balance. It just sucks that these are golden parts.

[mikeedler]

Originally Posted by Jason89i

no credentials needed.


your still wrong. there is indeed geometry differences between the e36 and e36m kingpins.

cheers, jason

I posted that as a joke because you posted earlier that as a tech.... I should know, anyway.. enough of that.

Better yet, please prove to me that there is a difference in the caster with the M3 kingpin. If the CASTER was different due to that piece, there would be no difference in the control arms or lollipops , please show me how you have this info.

[mikeedler]

Originally Posted by psyber_0ptix

the 96+ e36 m3 kingpins/knuckles are indeed different and are needed to do this properly. Give it a shot before you claim it won't work. what can you base your 100% assurance on?

right, I am going to spend another 500 at least on a set-up that I already know fits like crap.

I am 100% sure of this because AFTER BEATING my firewall(innerwheelwells) 8" inward with a sledgehammer to fit 205/40/17 tires-- no kingpin in the world is going to sit my wheels the needed min. of 3 " further forward.

you guys are WRONG to try to argue that this is a good set-up and this is what I am trying to get across, it sux and should be said. I got sucked int dropping a min. of 1500 dollars into crap that you guys are telling everyone is good. it doesnt fit and doesnt even drive good.

maybe, just maybe the M3 kingpins will make a bit of difference, but a real tire size on a lowered car it still is crappy geometry and will still rub like crazy.

[psyber_0ptix]

i"m sorry you didn't know the correct parts to get the first time around. I didn't have to hammer anything out and my wheel sits perfectly where it should. I only invested about $800 into my entire 5 lug and e36m3 front conversion.


i dug up a link you might want to read through
http://www.extradrei.com/5lug.html

***I originally used standard e36 spindles and brakes, but caster just does not work out. Wheel sits too far back and very often rubs. However, you may use standard e36 spindles and brakes, I did for a good number of months, but you HAVE to figure out caster. I used camber plates to fix caster just enough to reduce rub. Personally, if you're going through this conversion, do it right the first time

Servus