Amsoil VS Mobil 1 (yeah I know)

[KVF]

Yes, it's another one of those oil conversations. Sorry, but I just saw this Amsoil high ZDDP content oil, full synthetic 20w50 with low temp pouring at -38 degrees and figured it's just what my m20 is calling for...

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/zrf.aspx

The price is kind of high, but I'm already spending the extra cash on Mobil 1 15w50, so that's a wash. Something about the Mobil 1 has always felt a bit light to me, so I'm tempted. Anyone ever try this Amsoil Z-Rod stuff?

[Emre]

Personally, I stay away from Mobil 1 for the same reason I stay away from most "full synthetic" oils: they use Group III base stocks. Unless an oil uses Group IV or V stock, it's not a real synthetic in my book.

Mobil 1 used to be great stuff 20 years ago. They we a true synthetic. In fact, they sued Castrol for calling Syntec a "synthetic" oil when it used a Group III base stock. They lost the case, which opened the floodgates in America such that you can call almost anything a "synthetic" oil these days. Not long after that, Mobil 1 quietly changed their formula to what they sell today. Like Castrol Syntec, it's now based on hydrocracked dino juice.

If it's important to you to run a 100% synthetic oil, I would choose Amsoil without hesitation. They have used Group IV stocks from the very beginning and they never cheaped out. Also, many of their oils have high concentrations of ZDDP. For example, the Dominator RD50 I use in my race car is loaded with it. Can't go wrong with Amsoil.

Having said all that, I really don't think you need a full synthetic oil for an M20-powered car. Even on the track, a quality conventional oil is good enough. Personally, I run Kendall GT-1 or Brad Penn PG1 in my E30 track car. I know many racers who do the same and no one has any complaints.

[KVF]

Great information, thanks! I'll either go with the Amsoil or swap over to conventional and get some over the counter VR1. The primary reason I've been sticking with synthetic/Mobil 1 is the ability to run it year round. They typically have better low temp characteristics/pour points that make even the heavier weights winter friendly. That's lazy of me though, so it's probably best to go ahead back to conventional, making the appropriate summer/winter weight swap.

[blunttech]

I just sat through a seminar on oil and the oil expert giving it said the exact thing Emre just said and he didnt work for either company. I use amsoil in my s14 and I notice a drop in oil consumption over Mobil1
I used to use a quart of oil in 3500 miles and since switching to Amsoil I use none in 3500 miles. I have no idea why but its fact

[samiam3356]

An interesting read on tech

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1232917&highlight=diesel+oil#post1232917

[Emre]

I use amsoil in my s14 and I notice a drop in oil consumption over Mobil1

That may be because Mobil 1 is based on dino juice and Amsoil is based on a real synthetic base stock.

I've read a bunch of threads on oil at BITOG and Pelican Parts over the years. My understanding is that multi-grade oils are "built" differently depending on the base stock. Say you have a 20W-50 summer oil. If it's a conventional oil, then it starts with a 20-weight and they add viscosity modifiers to make it act like a 50-weight when hot. But if it's a synthetic oil, it starts with a 50-weight and has a small amount of a different kind of modifier to help it flow like a 20-weight when cold. This is one reason why some people obsess about having a "real" synthetic oil (i.e. Group IV or V) for track use, especially in air-cooled Porsches and turbo applications.

What might be happening in your case is that when you really beat on the engine in hot weather using a conventional oil (which is what Mobil 1 has been for many years now) it works like a 50-weight oil for a time...but at some point the viscosity modifiers break down and the oil starts working more and more like the 20-weight oil it really is. At some point, you have a significant increase in engine wear and oil consumption as the multi-grade oil eventually becomes too thin for your operating conditions.

The same thing never happens with the synthetic oil; it always remains on the thicker end of the spectrum. If the additives ever break down, then you'll have problems when it's cold...not when it's hot.

[Stanley Rockefeller]

If anyone needs an Amsoil hookup, I can help, just PM me for prices and availability as I am a dealer.

As I understand it, there are discounts on bulk purchases etc.

[Nairb]

Amsoil is great.. I use it in all my vehicles (other than my motorbike.. too old for synthetics). If you become a "preferred customer" for like $20/year you can get 20% off of everything you purchase from the Amsoil website.. filters, oil.. pretty much everything. You usually get your $20 back once you make your first purchase, but the shipping charges is where you may debate if it is worth it or not.

Anyway.. Amsoil FTW.

[NigelStu]

Ditto to what Stanley and Nairb said.

I'm an Amsoil dealer as well.


One thing that can work well, if a few people that are local to each other can get together, one person sets up the preferred account through a current dealer and makes the order for the group.

Or just support your friendly r3v member dealers :)



FWIW - The last 2 oil changes on my Chump project has been with the Valvoline VR1, due to the high zinc content and low cost - one of the few oils available at a very reasonable price with enough zinc. I did it basically just to clean out the engine and get things flowing right while I've occasionally DD'd the car (coming from completely unknown maintenance from POs, I changed the oil and ran the car for ~100 miles, then changed again). Amsoil Dominator RD50 will be used for actual racing.

[5Toes]

^ where do you work?

[bimmerteck]

Odd I was talking to the guys who did my UOA and they were explaining the excellent wear characteristics I was seeing from M1 15-50 was because of the high ZDDP content and quality base stock used in it.(they didn't specify and I didn't ask at the time) I'm not a chemist and don't claim to be but I've never really liked more exotic oils b/c I prefer my vehicle's fluids be easy to source locally. My 15-50 is in stock here at the local wal-mart, as well as the Oreilly's, and Autozone. Does anyone have a link to proof the M1 20-50 is a certain base stock? All that I can find on BITOG would be considered hearsay for either position.

[mrsleeve]

Here is a chart of most of Mobil's consumer offerings (I dont see delvac on here though) and the additive packages and manufacturer endorsements.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

will see if I can find the ones on bases as well, I know it used to exist somewhere.





VR1 has some of the highest ZZDP content you can get over all the others. I looked it up once and IIRC its somewhere along the lines of 1700ppm. Mobil racing oils are up around 1850ppm and IIRC a true group 4 but very hard to find in most cases and very expensive.

To get close to that in a more aviable Syn oil from mobile 1 you have to get the Syn CJ-4 for Diesels, not the shit you find at your local Auto zone in the quart bottles either. You have to get the true Delvac 1 and is a TRUE Group 4 base. I run it in almost everything. But is only available in 5-40. Mobil does make a V-twin syn oil thats is 20/50 and has a ZDDP content around 1700ppm, just dont see it around all that often. I still think its group 3 base though.

M20 e30's its most economical to just run with valvoline VR1 20/50 and change it out every 3000 miles.

[KVF]

Odd I was talking to the guys who did my UOA and they were explaining the excellent wear characteristics I was seeing from M1 15-50 was because of the high ZDDP content and quality base stock used in it.(they didn't specify and I didn't ask at the time) I'm not a chemist and don't claim to be but I've never really liked more exotic oils b/c I prefer my vehicle's fluids be easy to source locally. My 15-50 is in stock here at the local wal-mart, as well as the Oreilly's, and Autozone. Does anyone have a link to proof the M1 20-50 is a certain base stock? All that I can find on BITOG would be considered hearsay for either position.

I still trust the M1 on the ZDDP, but it just seems that when it's hot it really seems to thin out and my car seemed to have more clatter (valves recently adjusted & everything was in spec). I was initially thinking that the recent 100 degree temps were playing a role. As someone else pointed out; what it "may" mean is M1 is using actual base III stock, thus acting more like a conventional oil when it breaks down under high heat. I Haven't decided if I'm just going VR1 because of the easy access or if I'll order the Amsoil. Im really tempted about the Amsoil being a 20w50 that I can stick with year round.

[Emre]

Odd I was talking to the guys who did my UOA and they were explaining the excellent wear characteristics I was seeing from M1 15-50 was because of the high ZDDP content and quality base stock used in it.

No one is saying Mobil 1 is low quality. Just that it uses a different formulation from the old days and is no longer a "true" synthetic oil. Like I said, that might not be important to you anyway.

As for ZDDP, Mobil 1's 15W-50 has a good amount. The other grades don't.

I would have no problems running Mobil 1 on the street. I just don't think it's a great choice for track use.

[flyboyx]

i have been using shell rotella t 15w-40 synthetic in everything for years. it started with a diesel pickup and i haven't looked back. your oil filter choice is critical too. find a filter with best micron rating you can get. sometimes hard to do with bmw style cartridge filters used on 24v engines