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L-jet 323i - low power, fuel rail loses pressure in 5 minutes

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    L-jet 323i - low power, fuel rail loses pressure in 5 minutes

    hey folks, I'm troubleshooting a power issue happening to my 323i, and have managed to only confuse myself more. It's not clear that I am pursuing just one issue - the car sat for a long time, so multiple failing components could be combining in weird ways.

    The symptoms:
    - very down on power, minimal throttle response. I can barely get it above 70mph, and opening the throttle by hand in neutral makes it bog for a second before it spools up
    - fuel rail loses pressure very fast. I put a gauge inline to the cold start injector - it goes down to 0 psi in several minutes, you can watch the needle drop.

    Fuel pressure behaves kind of strange in addition to the rail purging - with the car idling it stays at the regulated 2.5bar with some vibration. When revved, it dips slightly, and drops by .5bar when the throttle is let go and the engine winds down off power.

    What I've tried (mostly related to getting the fuel system to work right as a precursor to chasing the power loss down):
    - replaced all small vac lines, inspected large ones
    - verified AFM flap moves freely, but haven't metered it out because I can't find spec documentation for L-Jet AFMs.
    - verified cold start injector not leaking.
    - known good pressure pump - didn't have much of an effect.
    - FPR vac test - unplugged vac line, system behaved as expected, pressure at idle rose by ~5psi
    - known good 3bar FPR from an M30 - didn't have much of an effect. rail pressure stayed at 3bar as expected.
    - plugged fuel tank return line and FPR exit. Turned ignition on to let pump charge, pressure jumped to ~100psi, dropped quickly to 1.5bar and stayed there. I opened the FPR exit and no fuel came out, so it was maintaining pressure.. not sure how to understand why the rail maintained pressure in this condition but not others.
    - I timed the engine (with the distributor advance/retard lines disconnected and plugged) to ~18 degrees advance at 3k RPM, but didn't verify that the vacuum advance functioned. As far as I've been able to figure out, these distributors have a mechanical advance AND a vacuum advance. Is that right? What is a good way to test vacuum advance?

    A new 2.5bar FPR and a few check valves are on their way to me to replace the missing and questionable units. If they do not cure the fuel problems, am I right in suspecting the injectors themselves? Can they be clogged *and* leaking? Can old fuel cause the power loss I'm seeing?
    cars beep boop

    #2
    The first thing I'd do would be to smoke test the intake as leaks can cause or contribute to the running issues. The rail pressure bleeding down that quickly is a bad check valve in the pump and since the pump may well be original and worn, which could explain the other fuel pressure issues, replace it with a new OE pump.
    The car makes it possible, but the driver makes it happen.
    Jim Levie, Huntsville, AL

    Comment


      #3
      there's a check valve in the external pump? Is this a different component than the small metal "connector" (per RealOEM, 13311713470) that comes right after it?

      incidentally this car just has an external pump and no in-tank lift pump.
      cars beep boop

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        #4
        The check valve is internal to the high pressure pump.
        The car makes it possible, but the driver makes it happen.
        Jim Levie, Huntsville, AL

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          #5
          I've installed another (used) pressure pump and the rail pressure loss behaves exactly the same as before.

          Suspecting leaking injectors now... would I be able to tell by the plugs?
          cars beep boop

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            #6
            Pull all the plugs and crank over the engine with the throttle wide open by jumpering power to the starter solenoid. If fuel sprays from the plug holes and/or there is a strong fuel smell, the injectors are leaking.
            The car makes it possible, but the driver makes it happen.
            Jim Levie, Huntsville, AL

            Comment


              #7
              I'm not sure what that would do with rail pressure at 0, but I'll give it a go.

              We stuck a vacuum gauge on the intake today - it reads really really low at idle. Like, 5" at most. I am smoke testing it tomorrow night, it's down to either a massive vacuum leak or a plugged cat, or both.
              cars beep boop

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                #8
                still trying to nail down the power loss issue, haven't been able to get all the stuff together for a DIY smoke machine, Lemons race got in the way a bit.

                I've replaced the valve cover gasket, crankcase vent breather hose tip (it has a tee with a small vac line to the back of the intake manifold. dunno why, but RealOEM suggests it's factory), unhooked the brake booster from the engine completely, plugged the charcal canister vac line, stripped the exhaust down to just downpipes, and I am still getting 5" pressure max at idle.

                the signs are there for low compression, but measured warm I get 170 psi or so in each cylinder.

                With the exhaust off, most of the throttle-blip hesitation is gone, so that's good, i guess.
                cars beep boop

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                  #9
                  Had the same problem with mine as well once, turned out it was a vacumn leak from a line missing. Trace and double check all of your vacuum lines and report back.

                  When it happened again, got tired chasing gremlins and went s50. At some point I'll find a proper 323i and spend time troubleshooting L-jet issues.
                  Continuous For Sale Thread
                  323i s50

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Have you pulled the TPS off an given it a good clean?
                    Mine was full of oil once, who ever thought putting it on the bottom of the throttle body was a good idea.....
                    Replaced the fuel filters?
                    292rwhp E30 :D

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Court M3 View Post
                      Had the same problem with mine as well once, turned out it was a vacumn leak from a line missing. Trace and double check all of your vacuum lines and report back.

                      When it happened again, got tired chasing gremlins and went s50. At some point I'll find a proper 323i and spend time troubleshooting L-jet issues.
                      yeah, I'm halfway to just saying fuck it and dropping in the M106. I'll be pulling it out of the 7 this weekend.

                      I *think* I've traced all the lines out. I did the test with the distributor TB nipples looped, brake booster lines blocked and charcoal canister line blocked. At that point, the only things connected to the motor that draw vacuum are the aux air valve, the idle diaphragm thingy, the crankcase vent and the FPR.

                      Originally posted by E30-323ti View Post
                      Have you pulled the TPS off an given it a good clean?
                      Mine was full of oil once, who ever thought putting it on the bottom of the throttle body was a good idea.....
                      Replaced the fuel filters?
                      Haven't cleaned it, but the TPS in these is a 2-position switch and doesn't really affect mid-throttle power. I should check that it's adjusted correctly, though.

                      New fuel filter went in when the fuel pump went in, pressure is good.
                      cars beep boop

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                        #12
                        found a diagram of the vac stuff



                        on the list of things to do tonight:
                        - verify vac line routing
                        - check for extra throttle body vac line nipples
                        - bypass aux air valve
                        - re-verify timing belt position
                        - re-do timing (19 degree advance at 3k off the cylinder #1 lead, right?)
                        - hope all the vacuum that fell out comes back

                        I've also ordered a wideband sensor which will come in useful for the eventual M106, so I'll be able to get a better idea of how the M20 is running.
                        Last edited by kronus; 07-03-2013, 02:53 PM.
                        cars beep boop

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                          #13
                          Where did you get that vacuum diagram?!
                          '75 Honda CB400f
                          '85 BMW 323i Euro
                          '04 Acura TSX A-Spec

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by bloodsnot View Post
                            Where did you get that vacuum diagram?!
                            Seconded. Also a little more info on the wideband? Please.
                            sigpic
                            Originally posted by JinormusJ
                            Don't buy an e30

                            They're stupid
                            1989 325is Raged on then sold.
                            1988 325 SETA 2DR Beaten to death, then parted.
                            1988 325 SETA 4DR Parted.
                            1990 325i Cabrio Daily'd, then stored 2 yrs ago.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by frankenbeemer View Post
                              Seconded. Also a little more info on the wideband? Please.
                              google. I have no idea what book it's out of, sadly, would love to own it. Apparently the diagram is for an e28 520i.

                              wideband, I got this one

                              edit: not sure why i wrote AEM before. this wideband has no relation to anything AEM-related.
                              cars beep boop

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