m50 swap: Vanos vs. Non-V?

[rwh11385]

It seems my engine is going to need its head rebuild. Rather than spend a LOT of money to get it fixed, i want to save up and do a M50 swap. (I would try to do the head work myself, but my parents are very much against it)

Anyway, my question is about the benefits and differences between these two types of M50 motors. I'm trying to debate whether it is worth spending more money on the vanos motor. Non-V are generall much cheaper, as they are probably not as sought after.

Anyway, i understand both have same stock specs. With a TurnerChip, the Non-V would make a 18 hp gain, and the V 22 hp...... torque being the same. So it would not be worth the extra funds for just 4hp.

However, a very popular mod is using 95 M3 cams in the Vanos. This is an advantage as it would have an option open to increase horsepower to about 220hp i believe i've read.
Nonetheless, a Non-vanos has hotter cams to begin with, which means if i do not pull this cam swap, the Vanos will not feel as strong (many people have praised their non-vanos engines)

The Non-Vanos can move their intake cam to the exhaust and buy a Shrick for the intake, and have the same specs as the M3 cams.

Which leads me to questions what would be the difference from a Non-V with M3-spec cams and a Vanos with M3 Cams. A couple horsepower maybe, at most.....6,7?

Most likely i would not buy cams soon after the swap, or possibly ever...... so perhaps a non-Vanos would be ideal. And overall, the maybe 7 hp difference in the end would not be significant as both would be such a drastic improvement from the M20.

[Jordan]

Re: m50 swap: Vanos vs. Non-V?

It seems my engine is going to need its head rebuild. Rather than spend a LOT of money to get it fixed, i want to save up and do a M50 swap. (I would try to do the head work myself, but my parents are very much against it)

Anyway, my question is about the benefits and differences between these two types of M50 motors. I'm trying to debate whether it is worth spending more money on the vanos motor. Non-V are generall much cheaper, as they are probably not as sought after.

Anyway, i understand both have same stock specs. With a TurnerChip, the Non-V would make a 18 hp gain, and the V 22 hp...... torque being the same. So it would not be worth the extra funds for just 4hp.

However, a very popular mod is using 95 M3 cams in the Vanos. This is an advantage as it would have an option open to increase horsepower to about 220hp i believe i've read.
Nonetheless, a Non-vanos has hotter cams to begin with, which means if i do not pull this cam swap, the Vanos will not feel as strong (many people have praised their non-vanos engines)

The Non-Vanos can move their intake cam to the exhaust and buy a Shrick for the intake, and have the same specs as the M3 cams.

Which leads me to questions what would be the difference from a Non-V with M3-spec cams and a Vanos with M3 Cams. A couple horsepower maybe, at most.....6,7?

Most likely i would not buy cams soon after the swap, or possibly ever...... so perhaps a non-Vanos would be ideal. And overall, the maybe 7 hp difference in the end would not be significant as both would be such a drastic improvement from the M20.

I paid about $500 to get my head rebuilt. that included 12 new valves, 12 new rockers, 12 new guides, and a 3 angle valve grind.

that isnt ALOT of money.

[rwh11385]

Re: m50 swap: Vanos vs. Non-V?

I paid about $500 to get my head rebuilt. that included 12 new valves, 12 new rockers, 12 new guides, and a 3 angle valve grind.

that isnt ALOT of money.

well, that's the thing. my parents refuse me to pull the head. So i'd also have to pay someone to do that for me. Just to replace ONE rocker arm, i'll cost $800. Which is a lot considering i was wanting to do a M50 this summer anyway. So i'm planning on parking my E30 and driving a 1991 Buick Park Avenue :roll: until i get my funds together.

I'm asking these technical questions to see which is idea for mel: Vanos, or Non-Vanos.

[Jordan]

whats your phone number? I'll call your parents and give them the what for & the who done it.

[rwh11385]

whats your phone number? I'll call your parents and give them the what for & the who done it.

haha, that'd be helpful.

but i'm having a mechanic buddy come in and check it out tommorrow. Hopefully he can desive a way to get the rocker arm shaft out and replace just the rocker arm and shaft now...... leaving me with my car to drive while i save up for the M50. I'd much rather have a BMW to drive while saving for the swap than the Buick.

My mechanic friend believe he might be able to make a tool to push down the valves so he could pull the shaft without removing the head. :) that would be awesome.

Anyone know how to remove the cooler that is in front of the radiator and connected to the electric fan? I could complete remove the rocker arm shaft if i could move this. My guess is it is the oil cooler, and seems to have a in duct and an out....with a sensor, but i'm not positive.

Anyway, if the repair will be cheap, i'll do it. If it's going to be $800+, especially $1000 or more, i'm going to not put any more money into my M20. Regardless i'm still interested in the benefits of Vanos/Non-Vanos

p.s. I'll be glad when i finally my car fixed, i can stop bothering Jordan.

[MattE30]

Non-Vanos pulls a bit harder at upper rpms, but that's about it for the benifits of non-vanos.

[JRowe]

There's a very noticeable difference in low to mid rpm torque with vanos. I have driven non-vanos with chip, intake, exhaust, and lightened flywheel and it didn't feel nearly as fast as the stock vanos equiped m50 until much higher rpm. If it were me, there is no way I would do a non-vanos.

Most driving is done at lower rpm where the differences between vanos and non-vanos are huge. If you limit your driving to on track and high rpm then you won't notice much of a difference. For everything else vanos is the way to go. Just looking at the hp and torque numbers, you won't see much of a difference. Go drive an e36 with and without vanos, and you'll see the difference. After that, your decision should be easy. Vanos all the way.

[gstuning]

The only thing that the vanos does is lower the torque curve,
maintaining the same torque values but sooner in the rev band, meaning more fun to driver, but also will not feel as fast,

because with the torque always beeing so much and not change that much you don´t feel the accelaration that much, I have that issue in my s50b30 but I just look at the odometer and gasp at the needle,

A vanos motor should be able to use less fuel because the valve timing at lower rpms can be optimized to make better atomization in the chambers

My S50B30 under semi heavy foot driving, i.e driving easy and more then occasional WOT, it´s getting 10-12L/100kmh, or about 27-30mpg

[Z3Jonathan]

Re: m50 swap: Vanos vs. Non-V?

I paid about $500 to get my head rebuilt. that included 12 new valves, 12 new rockers, 12 new guides, and a 3 angle valve grind.

that isnt ALOT of money.

well, that's the thing. my parents refuse me to pull the head. So i'd also have to pay someone to do that for me. Just to replace ONE rocker arm, i'll cost $800. Which is a lot considering i was wanting to do a M50 this summer anyway. So i'm planning on parking my E30 and driving a 1991 Buick Park Avenue :roll: until i get my funds together.

I'm asking these technical questions to see which is idea for mel: Vanos, or Non-Vanos.

If your parents arent going to let you take the head off, then who is going to do the engine swap for you? Having a shop do a M50 swap is going to cost you in labor.

Jonathan

[rwh11385]

Re: m50 swap: Vanos vs. Non-V?

If your parents arent going to let you take the head off, then who is going to do the engine swap for you? Having a shop do a M50 swap is going to cost you in labor.

Jonathan

I'm tight with a newly created BMW shop and another really awesome independent mechanic. I would do the majority of work myself, and have one of them help out with a couple things.

[RedBaron86325]

Permission? We don't need no stinking Permission !! Just pull the head, what are they gonna do? It will have to come off sooner or later anyway.

[UNHCLL]

Permission? We don't need no stinking Permission !! Just pull the head, what are they gonna do? It will have to come off sooner or later anyway.

The voice of reason kicks in!

IN all seriousness, if you are close with these BMW tech shops, why not have them pull the head for a reduced fee....????

[rwh11385]

Permission? We don't need no stinking Permission !! Just pull the head, what are they gonna do? It will have to come off sooner or later anyway.

The voice of reason kicks in!

IN all seriousness, if you are close with these BMW tech shops, why not have them pull the head for a reduced fee....????

My mechanic friend...... who has saved my ass multiple times with important fixes on other cars - say a $503 clutch replacement on a Infiniti G20 (completely saved me). and brakes jobs that stopped other places from ripping me off....anyway...... he's coming to check it out thursday now. He thinks he can pull the rocker arm shaft without removing the head! This would pretty much make the remaining repair costs his effot plus the rocker arm shaft (it's fucked right now.....)

But if he pulls this off, i'l lbe very happy and thankful to him again. If not, he can pull the head for cheap! He's the bomb.

but anyway, it seems there's no reason right now not to repair my M20. But in the future, i want to know if Vanos would be worth the extra money. I'm thinking it is worth it, because it's more tunable.

[UNHCLL]

we already answered the Vanos vs. Non-Vanos question....

[rwh11385]

we already answered the Vanos vs. Non-Vanos question....

yeah, but i wanted to know if anyone else on getting more opinions.

I'd heard people complimenting Non-vanos over Vanos, and was curious if they had many valid points. Like how the valvetrain is stronger...... possibily Non-V has dual-valve springs while Vanos has single. I just have a never-ending curious ......sorry if it's annoying :?