View Full Version : M20B29 w/ Triple Webers into my '71 2002

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06-16-2011, 11:44 PM
This thread will contain the building of two M20b25's to be fit into two very different 2002's.


This project is being put together by myself of Ireland Engineering (This is NOT something I'm doing on the job, it is a pet project build with my free time.)

I love the idea/novelty of a weber powered M20 in a 2002. I know it won't make as much horsepower as a set of ITB's or turbos, but frankly I'm not building this for big numbers, anyone can do that. The sound of three webers at WOT and the novelty of tuning carburetors are a few of my reasons in going this direction. This car is intended to be a fun-to-drive Outlaw 2002.


Looks like the previous driver didn't change the oil that much. The cam journals were grooved beyond the point of repair. Took a toll on the rockers as well.

the block sitting with good company

The car that this engine will someday reside in. My daily driven 1970 2002. The plan will be to keep the exterior as stock looking as possible (i.e. no front spoiler, etc.)

This engine is also in good company!

A turbo tii!? Das ist schön!

engine #2 and a hacked stock manifold to take some dimensions. Groma made up a set of M20-2002 motor mounts. And unlike the other ones out there these retain the same engine angle as in the E30.

Headers to fit in the 2002.

06-16-2011, 11:51 PM
Schweeeeet, in for more progress!

06-16-2011, 11:53 PM
I like the thread thus far. I am pro IE I have bought quite a few parts from you guys.
You may see your sway bars in there.
Keep up the good work. I am also pro carb too

Justin B
06-17-2011, 01:05 AM
I like what I see so far.

06-17-2011, 02:06 AM
Awesome. Was that red/yellow flared car bought from Daniel in San Jose? Im not sure if Daniel was the owner or just posting it for sale for the owner!

06-17-2011, 02:17 AM
damn nice job

06-17-2011, 03:28 AM
Would it be possible for others to get those headers? I'll be putting my M20 driveline back into my 02 in December when the body work is done.

06-17-2011, 09:05 AM

06-17-2011, 05:29 PM
Wow! Makes my mods seem meaninless :(

Can't wait to see more!

06-17-2011, 05:38 PM
Damn cool, def need more pics!

06-17-2011, 05:41 PM
I've never understood the IE hate, been ordering parts for years almost exclusively between them and Blunt and have yet to be disappointed.

On topic, I love this project. I almost pulled the plug on starting an m20 swap last year but just not ready to make a commitment on what I'd like to do just yet. To me, the the complete badassery of triple carbs trumps the benefits of FI.

Van Westervelt
06-17-2011, 05:48 PM
Triple Webers... I like this!

06-17-2011, 06:22 PM
Op have u looked into the early m20 weber setup on the e21? Im sure te intake manifold from that engine would help with the fabication process

06-17-2011, 08:36 PM
ha, I wonder if you made my Shorty headers. are you a sales rep? fabricator? tech? sweet build!

06-17-2011, 10:52 PM
This is gonna be sick man! Sub'd!!

A Sucked Orange
06-17-2011, 11:00 PM
cool idea! awesome little '02 you have there too!

06-18-2011, 01:51 PM
Alright, got a few updates...


After finding out that the first head is too far gone I've got another one stripped and ready to go to the machine shop for pressure testing before I start porting.

Stripped head, looks acceptable visually. Still within factory deck height specs (hasn't been shaved). Guess we'll see what the machine shop says.

Picked up a 323 valve cover (clean of any later eta/i supports/doohickeys) going to embrace my inner Tifosi and powder coat it wrinkle red a' La Ferrari Testorossa. http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/IMG_1875.jpg

M10 race head on the bench .... mmmmm

Front subframe .... more on this later


Got the transmission on

As the 323 M20 ran a distributor the freeze plug simply needs to be removed from later M20's and the distributor pops right in.

I'll reply to questions a little later.

06-18-2011, 01:58 PM
definition of staying classy!

love this build guys. and haters can suck it, IE kicks ass

06-18-2011, 02:17 PM
That valve cover looks a hell of a lot like one i recently sold to a guy that worked at Ireland Eng. Hmmmm.

A Sucked Orange
06-18-2011, 02:55 PM
bleh red engine cover? its not a ferarri. german machines look best in black

06-19-2011, 03:31 PM
A sucked orange - you are right, but the red touch under the hood is a personal touch.

LJ851 - Thank you again for the cover, I was worried it would be a big headache!

06-19-2011, 03:48 PM
Awesome. Was that red/yellow flared car bought from Daniel in San Jose?

It was the one up that way. the car was originally built with a bunch of IE stuff. As it sits it just needs a motor and some other things before heading out for a VARA weekend.

Brandon12V - I am a sponge here (learning as much as I can from Jeremy and Jeff). Everyone at IE does a little bit of everything. My daily routine varies from answering calls to making strut braces.

bmwstephen - We've got a set of manifolds en route. Although for mine I might put my limited Solidworks ability to the test and see what happens.....

06-24-2011, 12:01 AM
Engine/car #1

suspension.... Got the assorted bolts and washers back from the platers.

bling shot of all things shiny going on front subframe.

Ed at Groma seam welded my control arms. On 02 race cars they box these in, but this is more than enough for my build.

refreshed steering box

this is after a good soak in a concoction of denatured alcohol and purple power

Engine/Car #2

Finally some shots of car #2!http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/IMG_1892.jpg


EXTRA goodies.

This is an awesome S14 powered 2800 Groma built for John of SoCalVintageBMW.com


06-24-2011, 12:11 AM
Jealous of your tires!!! I cant find 13's ANYWHERE. Car looks good! So does that e9..

06-27-2011, 08:27 PM
^^Check with Groma, they've been on the car for a while, not sure if they're discontinued.

Engine 2/GROMA

Engine is in. On this set of mounts they are sitting the engine as far back and as low as possible. Reason being the plan is to run AC using the M20 stock compressor and the rest a Groma special.


Modifying the firewall will be necessary....

Passenger side mount

Suspension progress
running a set of shortened E30 strut housings and IE coil over components.

Finished stance

06-27-2011, 08:33 PM
I like where this is going!

07-04-2011, 11:14 PM
Happy 4th! Not much done, been a little busy.

What awaits us inside?!....

I spy some coolant....

and the before a bath shot......

Followed by the after the bath. Cleaning out the area under the oil level sensor was a pain but obviously necessary.

ready to start testing a new oil pan baffle as soon as we get some dimensions finalized.

07-13-2011, 12:11 AM
Some updates

Engine 2/Groma car

Got in a set of manifolds from Rowland Manifolds in South Africa. They appear to be a single casting of the center ports (oil return hole) and simply sent in triplicate. This means that the upper left hand stud for each manifold will need to be the longer style to clear the added depth. They are a little rough around the edges for my liking.


Test fit on the car

Looks like there will be some clearance issues with the 323 distributor. Might be a good excuse to go with a direct fire ignition system.

Couldn't resist putting a carb on to get an idea of the future visual bombardment.

DOWN SIDE: The engine is sitting so low the webers will have no chance of clearing the brake booster (even the small O.D. Tii booster as pictured). As the idea is to make this car the ultimate '02 road rally car, think Targa California, removing the booster is not an option. So Mano's idea is to run a remote booster (with the intention of making it "simple" to replicate in the future.)

UPSIDE: with a remote booster the engine bay will have a nice "shaved" look to emphasize the webers.

07-13-2011, 12:35 AM
Engine 1: My car (Ireland Engineering)

After finding out that the existing manifolds weren't quite what I was hoping for I'm going to attempt to make a new set of manifolds using my limited knowledge of Solid Works, Jeff & Jeremy's experience, and a measuring caliper.

Project briefing: M20 - DCOE type manifold

cast vs. CNC machined --- Cast parts have a higher up front cost dues to the cost of making a mold but residual sets will be much less than if machined. CNC machined has a lower up front cost but that cost stays the same for residual parts. RESULT: This 3 piece manifold will not be made in any great numbers to justify making a mold so CNC'ing is my best option.

Desirable attributes.
DCOE type flange to fit 40 DCOE with enough material to port to a 45 for a race applications. Most individual throttle bodies use the DCOE flange so including injector ports and vacum ports is a must. Those (like me) running carbs will want to run a top mount linkage setup so threaded holes for heim joints to hold the linkage rod are a must.

If anybody else has any input on what would should be included please let me know.

Excited as this is my first project of this magnitude.

Engine update:

Head back from machine shop. Ready for some porting, not that it needs much.

Took 1 rod end apart to find that the rod bearings were wore down to the copper. The crank has a lot of scoring and rather than turn it this will be a good excuse to go stroker!

07-13-2011, 01:16 AM
Wow this was way cool until now.......now I'm not sure what to say because a triple weber stroker is way beyond cool....LOL! Nice work man! Keep it going! I'm sure I am one of many waiting in anticipation for these to be pounding concrete soon!!

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention my 2 cents for the manifold project....I feel that the manifolds would look much better with an up-swept look instead of sticking straight out of the head. The look of things would flow a bit better in my opinion. But the picture you have up might be throwing it off. I could be wrong. A different view of it might be better to really judge if my idea is reasonable or not.

The Humjet
07-13-2011, 02:20 AM
This 02' is gonna be sick, stroked high comp with triple webbers is going make this car sing. I will be keeping an eye on this project hopefully I can learn more about the m20 into the 2002 conversion. Good luck with this build hope you go through as least obstacles possible.

07-13-2011, 02:23 AM

07-14-2011, 12:01 AM
^^ haha perfect, Cropping one for my little picture.

drutt23 - Thanks for the input, I've seen the type of setup you're talking about. I would need to run Weber IDF downdraft style carbs and then that would mean no the ability to use the manifold for ITB's.

Saw this IDF setup on an Alpina E21 M20 in Chile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78MrlRvrM9o - have to endure the bad music though.

07-14-2011, 12:09 AM
awesome project you got goin!!!!

07-14-2011, 03:54 PM
^^ haha perfect, Cropping one for my little picture.

drutt23 - Thanks for the input, I've seen the type of setup you're talking about. I would need to run Weber IDF downdraft style carbs and then that would mean no the ability to use the manifold for ITB's.

Saw this IDF setup on an Alpina E21 M20 in Chile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78MrlRvrM9o - have to endure the bad music though.

Ok now I understand. Thanks for the clarification! :D

07-14-2011, 04:08 PM
Triple sidedraft manifolds designed for a 323 are raised up to clear the distributor, I could probably be talked out of the one i have if someone wants it.

07-14-2011, 04:54 PM
Triple sidedraft manifolds designed for a 323 are raised up to clear the distributor, I could probably be talked out of the one i have if someone wants it.

The manifold you speak of, is it the Pierce Manifolds piece for IDF downdrafts or one I'm not aware of?

07-14-2011, 05:06 PM
There are no markings on the manifold. The guy i bought it from said the setup came off a Korman stroker 2.7 or 2.8 i cant remember. It's very nicely made and one piece.


07-16-2011, 11:47 PM
LJ851 - Thanks for the offer but I'm too deep into the solidworks stuff to stop now. I'll also be looking to raise up the weber side simular to the one you have.

The one you have looks very similar to the ones Pierce manifolds used to offer (NLA according to their online catalog http://www.piercemanifolds.com/category_s/200.htm )

Could you send me a side profile picture of yours?

07-17-2011, 11:13 AM
Could you send me a side profile picture of yours?

Sure, hear are a couple different views.


07-30-2011, 08:26 PM
^ Thanks for those side shots, just what I was looking for. I called Pierce the other day and it seems that they indeed no longer carry the DCOE manifold, they do however, still sell the IDF manifold.

Progress has been a little slow but hopefully have some updates this week.

07-30-2011, 10:11 PM
So weber 40's? Im guessing?

Or bigger? I was at the vintage races ad saw Lotus twin cams with dual weber 50's... astonished I got to talking and they actually just had venturis (or whatever they are called) in them to make them smaller

07-31-2011, 12:53 AM
So weber 40's? Im guessing?

Or bigger? I was at the vintage races ad saw Lotus twin cams with dual weber 50's... astonished I got to talking and they actually just had venturis (or whatever they are called) in them to make them smaller

Yeah, going with 40's as the goal is to keep the streetable. 50's would be madness, smaller venturis do make sense though.

08-18-2011, 02:36 AM
This build interests me a great deal.

So keep going and looking forward to updates.

08-18-2011, 06:12 AM
Where is the thread tool that will slap me in the face when something this amazing is going on in R3V... WHERE!!?

Glad I'm to par with it now at least.

08-20-2011, 02:06 AM
Sorry not many updates. Been finding out that there needs to be more hours in a day with full time @ IE, full time @ school, and a family (7 month old son loves sitting in the 2002).

Groma/Mano update ---- will be getting back to the Groma car next week, plan is to now have a completely shaved bay, pics to follow.

Me/IE update
snapped a better shot of the car, not bad for original paint.

---- turning focus to more immediate problems than the engine. Am rebuilding the front and rear subframes/suspension. List as follows....

FRONT subframe -- weekend warrior build (not overkill on street but certainly stiffer than stock.)
- IE Driver's side motor mount weld in plate
- IE front urethane bushing kit (inner and outer control arm bushings, radius rod bushings)
- OEM idler arm bushings
- IE urethane steering coupler
- OEM tie rods and track rods
- Rebuilt steering box
- Bilstein Sport Shocks
- IE stage 2 springs
- OEM lower ball joints
- GROMA reinforced lower control arms
- IE 22mm front swaybar DropCenter (clears M20 oil pan)

The steering box I had ready to go was snagged for a customer so what better opportunity to learn how to rebuild one myself. The 2002 steering box mechanism simply consists of a steel roller shaft mated to a worm gear, these parts are now NLA so if your gears are pitted/ground (see below) you might want to consider getting a rebuilt box (or buying a couple other used boxes in hopes of piecing together a good one)

Steering box diagram via RealOEM, a little simpler then that power steering.

Notice the flat spot on the inside of the right roller shaft, this would indicate it would make a good paperweight!

Notice the grinding wear on the left worm gear, also good for stacks of papers.

08-20-2011, 04:51 AM
great build ... looking forward to the updates.

pics of my 240z for inspiration - triple 48 dcoe's

08-23-2011, 09:26 PM
Nice looking Z, always like those car.

Update Me/IE

Got the oil pan baffle prototype finished up and nearly ready to go. Been wanting to make these for a while now to use in conjunction with the windage tray. Hopefully have them tumbled and up on the site in the next week or so.

08-23-2011, 09:51 PM
So awesome! I love the sound of webers at WOT =)

Doing this well!

08-24-2011, 09:16 AM
SKiFree did i meet you up In IE when i was with Flavio?
id love to see this project in person!
im heading back from PR to Cali in October!

Good luck with the project!

09-08-2011, 08:44 AM
Been longing for an update. So how are things going?

Also what sort of cam duration do you plan to run?

Anyhow keep going as this build still interests me a great deal.

09-11-2011, 02:33 PM
Luis -- I don't think I met you but please say hello next time you swing by!
Slickbass -- On the cam I'm not sure to go with a 272 or a 288.

Sorry for the lack of updates, will get some up early this next week.

Mano is going to Munich for Octoberfest this next week (just a little jealous) so no progress on the GROMA car.

09-11-2011, 02:41 PM
sweet baby jesus! this is goin to be tits.

09-15-2011, 12:42 AM
Groma Race Fab/ Mano update....

Uhm, yea, the Groma project has shifted a little bit.....again.... alot. Mano's decision now is to aim for 50/50 weight distribution on a shortened scale (cylinder #1 will be in line with the strut tower and the fuel cell will be in the rear seat area). Always wondered what something like this would drive like, guess now we'll find out!
This is what greets you when you walk in the shop

As you can see in the pictures the trimming has started. After we can get the 323 close ratio 5-speed positioned correctly then the cage fab will start. Also the driver's position and pedal assembly will have to be pushed back as well, obviously.


09-15-2011, 01:17 AM
Good to see a 6 cylinder conversion done right, with weight distribution in mind.

09-21-2011, 07:41 AM

How is your inlet mani going? Obviously a big part of the build.

09-22-2011, 09:51 AM
Slick - I've got nearly all the dimensions finalized. The suspension comes first and then that will be the next step in the project.

10-05-2011, 01:42 PM
Alright, so I've still been working on the suspension but don't have any good write ups yet.

On the side I've been putting a database together on M20 ITB/weber cars. Here are a couple of Australian customer's cars.... both of which will be IE 3.1'd soon.

Mr Luicci's E21 w/ Extrudabody ITB's (Rowland Manifolds)


Mr. Karatzis's E30 running S54 ITB's with a custom adapter manifold


10-14-2011, 02:41 PM
Hey SkiFree, would you be able to get any shots of the red 2002's front suspension? I'm curious as to how they got the e30 struts onto the 2002 control arms, as well as the steering situation.

10-20-2011, 02:26 AM
Hey Kronus, I'll try and get some shots tomorrow, sorry for not getting back any sooner.

So I've finished up the steering box and have some tidbits worth mentioning.

Here's how it started. Nicely covered with gear box oil, yummy!

Taking the pitman arm off was pretty entertaining. We stuck the box upside down in a bearing splitter and used a press on the bottom of the box, it separated with a pretty good bang.

After disassembling about 3 used boxes for parts I had enough pieces to make one good box (this is one reason why it might actually be cheaper to just buy a rebuilt box.).

Replacing the upper and lower seals is so much cheaper if you go through an oil seal supplier (I used Colonial Seal) rather than a dealership. BMW list is $13-$15 per seal vs. $2-$3 from Colonial (you simply need the dimensions printed on the seals). Unfortunately the plastic bearing cages and their races are only available through BMW (cages $35 each and the races $45-$50 each). I called a local bearing guru (old school guy with records dating back from the stone age) and gave him the BMW part numbers for the bearings/races as well as the manufacturer's printed part #'s (SKF in this case), he said that they have not been available for some time (through sources other than BMW) and that they appeared to have been designed for the aeronautics industry, pretty interesting stuff. I used the best races and bearings out of the 3 boxes and called it good.

I bought new 8x25 hex bolts and wave washers through BMW because they were relatively cheap and came cadmium plated.

Prepped and painted the box, top cap, and side cap with 3 coats of caliper paint.

Reassembly was pretty easy, just retraced my dissasembly procedure. I did take a skotch-brite pad to the shim plates as they were pretty crusty.

When putting the worm gear back in I was sure to line up the gear mark with the case mark before tapping in the vertical gear assembly in (simultaneously lining up the two marks on the bottom). This insured that the steering position will be at top dead center once everything is in place.



And the finished box almost ready for action.


The finishing touches were the cadmium plated steering coupler brackets that Draco ('02faq member) gave me, along with the urethane steering coupler. Nyloc nuts used all the way around.

Ready to go!


10-20-2011, 09:22 AM
Dam. Nice work on the steering box man!! Looks good!! Keep it comin!

10-21-2011, 10:21 PM
^Thanks, as Johnny Cash once said.... one piece at a time.

So I figured the best way to do the suspension was to borrow/buy duplicates of the subframes, struts housings, etc. and just swap everything over on a weekend.

Assembled nearly all the pieces to be powdercoated.

I'm going to cut out some templates and have Ed weld them up to box these rear trailing arms. Seen a couple bend on some high HP cars.


Some reinforcement on the driver's side motor mount arm.


10-21-2011, 11:16 PM
At some point after the m20 swap I am getting a steering box and coil overs all around (true rear coil over kit). My steering box is sheeet!

11-07-2011, 10:51 PM
any up-dates?

11-08-2011, 11:41 PM
^^ Nothing major

Have a number of bits just about to be powder coated or zinc-ed. The seam welded control arms were at the powdercoaters and they somehow managed to lose them

Looking into ignition options. Running a stock 323 distributor doesn't look like it would make that much sense when for a similar price I could go with an EDIS system (megajolt lite jr.). Electromotive would be nice, but that's a little out of my price range. This effects the manifold design as the ONLY real reason to put an S bend into it would be to clear the distributor.

Also have front and rear brakes larger brakes in process. They will go on the car at the same time as the suspension. more details as they arise.

11-11-2011, 10:12 AM

So for my build the entire idea is to make it as stock appearing on the outside as possible, but I'll obviously some pretty decent stopping power. My setup will be as follows.


For those versed in 2002 lore the Volvo based brake kit is pretty common knowledge. I'll be running the our Ireland Engineering BBK setup which includes everything needed for the cross over.
*E21 Small bearing hubs -- The spindle of the E21 strut are the same dimensions as the one found on the 2002, allowing me to ditch the ancient hub over rotor assembly. Small bearing hubs are found on post 77 US cars, but as they are becoming increasingly difficult to find, we (IE) decided it would be more cost effective and convenient to just make our own using the same dimensions.
*12x57 thread-in studs -- no longer need the stock press in studs.
*Wheel bearings
*dust cap
*Re-drilled Volvo based calipers
*E21 vented rotors (USA 1977 only or any E21 euro 323. For some unknowable reason BMW USA switched back to solid rotors after 1977).
*pads -- I'll be running some generic ceramic performance pads.

First step, got a little ahead of myself and a little too happy with the locktite when fitting the studs.


Interesting comparo of the E21 hub vs. the one found on a Panoz Esperante GTS Spec Racer.


Pounding in the races. If you are not confident DO NOT put in races like this, you will screw it up. Yes, there is a tool to press in races. I used a simular sized socket and rubber hammer.


Caliper size camparo. Note the allowed width for the rotor, the Volvo caliper obviously is wider allowing for the vented disk.


Rotor size comparo showing my 'big rotor' for the 2002 as compared to a couple of the E30 BBK rotors.


Test fit.


The beauty of flush fitment due of the redrilled mounting holes. While it is possible to run the calipers without redrilling, the pads do not site flush with the rotor. Some people opt for the easy way out, to each their own I guess.


11-11-2011, 11:20 AM
Stupid bandwidth, the earlier pictures should be visible next month (December). Onward with the help of ImageShack!


---To again comply with the sleeper approach I am going to be running the 250mm rear drum setup from the E21.

Dissassembly of the rear hub requires removal the rear stub axle nut. It's not the easiest nut to remove. I got them off by using a good amount of penetrating oil and an air gun.

Removal of the rear hub. I used a rubber hammer and rotated the hub while gently tapping the backside, however a proper puller is the more generally accepted route.


Hubs off and studs pressed out, off to be zinc coated.


Comparo of the 230mm standard drums found on the 2002 as compared to the 250mm drums from the E21.


Everything ready to go. Included from the gentleman I bought the setup from on the FAQ, was the parking brake cables from the 2002 Turbo (slightly longer). Depending on how much one's E-brake line has been previously adjusted (i.e. shortened) one might need to run these.


11-11-2011, 03:50 PM
Why not do disk brakes in the back?

11-11-2011, 05:19 PM
Why not do disk brakes in the back?

A 2002 equipped with properly adjusted 250mm drums will stop just as well as the vw caliper disk brake setup. As a small aside it's nice to keep things as BMW as possible (minus the front calipers). Plus I won't need to machine the rear hubs down.

All the vintage 2002 race cars ( Jeff Ireland's, Ken Blasko's, Matt Ronin's, etc.) are all running the 250mm drum setup. Yes, it's per class restrictions, but they stop pretty well.

11-11-2011, 06:22 PM
Good to know.

11-21-2011, 04:48 PM
Pretty stoked, I just had a 4-speed transmission from a euro 323 (Getrag 242) drop in my lap (Thank you Matt of Ronin Autowerks!). which can be combined with the 320i 5speed (getrag 245 "US spec") to create a cost efficient way of getting a 5-speed that has the M20 compatible bell housing and fit in the tranny tunnel without needing to hack it up ( a la' Getrag 260). Once I get a chance I'll be meeting up with Rob at Precision Gearing and do a write up.

In my opinion, for any standard M20 swap, it is a crime to hack up the sheet metal of the tranny tunnel and is simply unnecessary. The 323 5speed (Getrag 245 'euro spec') or the hybrid 242/245 type going on this car are more than capable of handling the power and don't require body surgery. The Hybrid 242/245 Getrag is also relatively affordable.

The guys at Stanceworks work kind enough to stop by a little while ago...

11-21-2011, 05:30 PM
Nice! I read their stuff a fair amount.
I am using a g240 from a 318i. I wonder how that will fit.
Talked to my boss. I am getting bumped up to Sous Chef after December which is good because more money, but means I wont get a break to put the motor in till April. I am getting very antsy.
Just means I will have to buy more parts from you guys in that time.
I want a baffle and windage tray, fuel pressure regulator, and a few other odds and ends.
What are you using for fuel line and fittings?

11-21-2011, 10:59 PM
^ Congrats on the promo, that's got to feel pretty good! To be honest I haven't even considered the fuel line setup yet. I think you're a fair bit ahead of me, will be interesting to see how the 240 will fit up. I've heard of slightly off kilter shift position, but frankly that could be a little relative.

11-29-2011, 10:34 AM
Mano got himself an article in Bimmer Magazine for the Schwartz Turbo Tii (those of you who came out to the Ireland Engineering / Groma Race Fab. open house this last summer will remember the car).


Congrats to him! His 2002 triple weber build is a little up in the air at the moment, will update when something comes up.

01-17-2012, 12:16 AM
Parts finally back from powdercoaters, was worth the wait, they did an awesome job. Went with a black semi-gloss.

Was a LONG Saturday getting everything put together, luckily Jeremy came in as well.

Here's the end of day shot, should get everything in the car this coming Saturday. Then it's time to start thinking about the M20 again.


BMW 2002 strut build ....

The bare powdercoated struts (obviously the threads on top and the spindle were masked.


Had the steering arm zinced, put in new ball joints, and greased up the inside (used some bearing grease).


Greased up the hub and bearings....


after putting on the grooved washer I tightened down the castle nut nice and tight before backing off one tooth and sliding the cotter pin through (after a couple of days driving, I'll go back in and tighten it down some more)


Next were the Bilstein HD shocks, these went in pretty smoothly except getting a good handle on the gland nut was a PITA. I've heard that you can smear a thin coat of ATF on the insert to prevent corrosion, however with the risk that the breather at the bottom of the insert might get blocked I opted to put them dry. Guess time will tell.

Bolted the steering arm to the bottom of the strut and safety wired the bolts. The little bolts are getting pretty spendy at $6.25 each BMW list price.


How struts will sit until they go into the car. I'll be reusing the Ireland Engineering Stage 1 springs along with new strut bearings and some fixed camber plates. No need to go coilovers unless I want a track car.


01-17-2012, 12:43 AM
nice man love the sound of carbs you going to go with a higher lift cam
also sub'd

01-17-2012, 01:15 AM
Will start with a 272 and go from there, not sure if the 288 will be worth any real gain for an engine which wont live it's life at redline.

.. Whenever I'm in need of a self kick-in-the-butt this helps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWIamgV9pJI&feature=related

Rear subframe ready to go, complete with IE 22mm bar, urethane subframe mount inserts, IE urethane trailing arm bushings, and boxed trailing arms.

01-17-2012, 02:36 PM
I cannot wait to hear this thing, I love the thought of carbs so simple and just fun to tinker with. Someday

01-17-2012, 03:35 PM
Had the steering arm zinced, put in new ball joints, and greased up the inside (used some bearing grease).


Dumb question - why does this area get greased? I did mine recently and didn't see any reason to do it...

01-17-2012, 03:56 PM
Dumb question - why does this area get greased? I did mine recently and didn't see any reason to do it...

It's not strictly necessary for those of us in sunnier places. The grease is to keep moisture from sitting in there and corroding everything over time.

Here's the inside of an arm off a car that must have spent it's life in a wet area.

01-17-2012, 06:10 PM
^Holy crap!

Would have never thought to use grease somewhere like that to prevent rust. Thanks for the tip :)

01-20-2012, 11:45 PM
No problem J, though I'm certainly just passing along the knowledge on that one.

And now the rear suspension ....

1. BMW 2002 Rear Subframe reassembly (Street Performance oriented)

Written by myself, Andrew Adams, with much help and teaching from Jeremy. This is intended to go up on our expanding Ireland Engineering Tech Section to help answer some of the questions we get asked regularly.

BIG DISCLAIMER: I am not responsible for your screw-ups.

GENERAL TIP:**Never fully torque down a bolt intended to hold a pivoting bushing into place until after the full weight of the car is applied.**(This is generally why you’ll see someone stress out and say their car is sitting like a 4x4 after going through their suspension)
After getting everything back from powdercoating I started piecing together the rear subframe.

First up were the new OEM rear subframe mounts w/ Ireland Engineering urethane inserts.**The inserts go in through the top (you’ll need an exacto knife to cut through the thin rubber webbing inside the mount.**Curiously I bought the bolts from BMW, and they came stamped 9.8 (seen 8.8 and 10.9, but never a 9.8).**Bolted the mounts to the frame.*


I started with the rear wheel bearings (they are not as weird as the E30 rears).*


Upon removal of the old bearings you’ll find a shim and sleeve, keep those bagged appropriately.**The shims are specific to the trailing arm, and if you lose them it’s a PITA to calculate the correct size replacement needed (BMW had a number of thicknesses used.)


For reassembly I started with the inner bearing, (press was oh-so-nice).**Packed the bearing with grease. When pressing in the new bearings I made sure to use an appropriately sized hollow tube (you want the pressure applied on the outside ring of the bearing, pressure applied to the center sleeve will destroy the bearing (or hasten it’s demise).



For the outside I put in the sleeve and placed the shim on the inside shoulder then pressed in the greased bearing.**With the bearings in, I layered some grease up to act as the grease reservoir before tapping in the seals (don’t want to tap the seals down much past the lip as it encroaches on the grease reservoir).



Next are the stub axels.**Often upon removal the threads can get bunged up when someone mistakenly hammers them head on. Sometimes (but certainly not always if its too bad) this can be righted by filing the threads or chasing them with a thread chaser.**Try and get these as clean as possible before pressing back in (I used scotch bright).**Simply press these back in (there will be two major points of tension as it’s pressed in).



After the stub axle went on, I pressed in the shock absorber stud back into its knurled hole on the trialing arm and bolted on the brake drum backing plate (in the case, one of the 250mm sized units).**I made sure to situate the plates so that the small hole meant for the E-brake cable is on the forward side in relation to the trailing arms. The forward brake shoe retaining pin needs to be put through it’s hole at this point as well (there is not enough clearance to the trailing arm after the backing plate is bolted down.**Bolts were 8x25 with a lock washer**


Next on were the wheel hubs (also zinc plated), I tapped these on with a rubber mallet.**The infamous axle stud was then hand tightened down (the final torquing won’t be done until the car is on the ground.)


The last part of the trailing arms (before attaching the arm to the subframe) is to press in the Ireland Engineering urethane trailing bushings (part of the rear bushing kit). When looking at a single trailing arm, the thicker end bushing needs to be on the outside.**I liberally lubed up the bushings with the supplied grease (super sticky) prior to squeezing them in (a C-clamp worked nicely).


Finally attached the trailing arms to the subframe.*BigNote:**I’ve seen this covered before, but if you’re having your standard 2002 trailing arms boxed in, then you need to make sure who-ever is doing the welding is doing so on either a jig or an actual subframe.**If not, you’ll have some arms that are pinched and askew.**Depending on your trailing arms, it might be nice to have a friend around for extra muscle.**The trailing arm bolts are 12x1.5x90mm.


Next up was the brake hard line. Started with a 20” line of bubble-flared brake line. 1st bend w/ downward angle, then another bend to run the brake line along the inner arm before ending with another bend approximately where the stock line would be. Used a bit of split rubber tubing to wrap around the hardline where it goes into the retaining hook and pinch it closed. Bubble flared fittings do NOT need teflon tape since the flare acts as the seal, however Pipethread brakeline ends DO need teflon tape.


The last bit for the rear subframe is the Ireland Eng. 22mm sway bar. The endlinks are pretty straightforward, though it's worth noting that they are fully adjustable (using sliders), the more you choke up, the stiffer it acts.


The pivot bushings are a royal PITA, but with a little time and patience, they should be conquerable. The first thing is to make sure the U bracket retainer on the subframe is perfectly parallel (if not, squish it between to solid objects [like aluminum blocks] and use a hammer to straighten). Slipped the urethane bushing (w/ liberal amounts of grease) and fit the U-clamp in the bottom over the sway bar Next I started with a long-ish 8mm bolt and started cinching down enough to start a shorter bolt in the adjacent hole, repeated with ever smaller 8mm bolts. With the help of a clamp and muscle, the bracket was cinched to a snug fit.




And after that the subframe is ready to go up in the car!


01-21-2012, 01:04 AM
Nice work! Can't wait to see the car running.

01-21-2012, 01:19 AM
no camber/ toe adjustment kit on the rear subframe?

this is so beautiful, i wish i had the money to do this to any of my cars

Simon S
01-21-2012, 04:34 PM
Sweet Jesus !!

Talk about building a roller skate..

01-21-2012, 05:05 PM
I don't think I'll need to run adjustable camber/toe with stage 1's and HD's, but I guess we'll see after we do an alignment.

Simon S - Thanks, I've taken inspiration from your 'Zen' walk through's. Next up will be the front subframe.

01-22-2012, 06:06 AM
Thanks for the detailed documentation. I'll be referencing your thread this summer when I'm home putting my '02 back together. Although, it'll just be the mechanical and interior that need to be put back together. Lookin real good. Keep up the good work.

01-22-2012, 08:05 AM
really nice job man.


01-29-2012, 02:26 PM
Thanks guys...... Next up is the front assembly. I apologize if some of this seems basic or redundant, just wasn't to make sure I address often asked questions. If there is something I miss please let me know.

1. BMW 2002 Front Subframe reassembly (Street Performance oriented)

Written by myself, Andrew Adams, with much help and teaching from Jeremy. This is intended to go up on our expanding Ireland Engineering Tech Section to help answer some of the questions we get asked regularly.

BIG DISCLAIMER: I am not responsible for your screw-ups.

GENERAL TIP:**Never fully torque down a bolt intended to hold a pivoting bushing into place until after the full weight of the car is applied.**(This is generally why you’ll see someone stress out and say their car is sitting like a 4x4 after going through their suspension)

__________________________________________________ ______

Starting with a blank powdercoated front subframe makes things nice.**The first thing I did was press in the Idler Arm Bushings (this would be a pain to do later on), the powder-coater was kind enough to mask off the holes so the new bushings were pressed in with relative ease. With the bushings in I slid the idler arm through and reused the cap washer/ castle-nut.



From there I went straight for the radius rods. I used the IE urethane front bushing kit which included the radius rod bushings as well as the inner and outer control arm bushings. Grease-up the backside half of the bushing put the zinc coated concave washer in place along with the radius rod end and push into place ( if you leave the rod out, it won't fit later). Pushed in the front portion w/washer.


**Note, the earlier cars used drilled arms, castelated nuts, and cotter pins to keep everything in place. Later cars simply used lock nuts ( radius rod nuts are 14mmx1.5mm). I used locknuts where-ever possible since there a lot easier to deal with.



The seam welded and powdercoated control arms were the next to have their bushings put in. The thinner-ended bushings went on the outside hole and the thicker were pressed into the inside .


Earlier control arms did not have the bent “I” forming edges and are obviously not as strong.


The sway bar end links were put on next. Used the jam nut to tighten the bushing but made sure to leave the heim-joint loose (for easier instal later).


Next I pushed the large bolt through the subframe and the bolt sleeve, out the other side the 'shorty' bolt sleeve was slide on along with one of the bushing washers. With another concave washer slide on the back if the radius rod, it was time to slide the control arm on. With the other side washers in place I cinched on the 2 lock nuts. (don't mind the sway bar, got a little ahead of myself.)


Sway bar
The bmw 2002 Ireland Engineering 22mm front sway bar (full name, to help google searchers) routes underneath the subframe rather than the stock (and other aftermarket bars) which route up and over the subframe tips. The maths show that it acts as strong as if it were a 25mm bar routed through the stock location. The billet mounts for the pivot bushing utilize 2 of the 3 holes which attach the subframe to the chassis frame rail. I've chosen the 'drop-center' bar which will clear the oil pan for this M20 swap. The important part of the installation will be when I attach the end links to the bar (next write up). See above picture

steering box
After loosely attaching the passenger side motor mount and keeper (NOTE that I've done this wrong, whenever possible put the bolt facing downward and the nut on bottom, so just in case the bottom backs out you'll still have the bolt in place)


it was time to attach the steering box. The steering arm bolts got a little bit of red lock tight and were completely torqued down.


The center track rod was then put in place (made sure to soak the rubber bushings in oil, as per the factory manual) and the ends bolted on loosely.


All done for now! Next up is the actual installation!



01-29-2012, 03:36 PM
Nice job on the front subframe write up! I'm going to have to go over mine again when I go coil over late this summer. Just ordered a fuel regulator for my m20 from you guys. Can't wait till it shows up. I still want a thicker spark plug set from you guys.

01-29-2012, 09:39 PM
Look at you! Your a bad ass! Love this thread! Just found it.. I'll keep watching.

01-30-2012, 03:34 PM
Thanks Igor and Jeremy, as always it's nice to watch both of your projects.

Jeremy, you should see the AFPR tomorrow.

Just made the hard decision to NOT go stroker, the costs would be similar but my goal is to have this engine last long term (and possibly be a daily driver for a bit), the finicky nature of a high-strung engine is not what I'm looking for. Will see how much power is available from a well-buttoned everything-new engine.

02-23-2012, 01:41 AM
BMW 2002 Front Subframe installation.

Going to breeze over this a bit.

To drop the front subframe I unattached the steering colum from the box (unbolted the four bolts inside the cabin where the steering column attaches to the fire wall and the steering coupler in the engine bay, couple good yanks on the steering wheel and it's separated.), unbolted the engine mounts, the strut mount hats, ground wire, and some other bits.


With the car off the ground we wheeled in the cherry picker to hold the engine in place. We unbolted the 6 bolts which attach the subframe to the frame rails and out cam the old subframe, complete with strut assemblies.





Slid in the new subframe assembly and started to raise it up on a jack. The billet pieces used for the IE sway bar utilize the forward two subframe-to-framerail holes, so they are held on pretty tight. It was tricky to line up the subframe holes (and the motor mounts) but it worked after some grunting and repositioning of the jack.



We were reusing the upper spring perches (making sure they weren't mushroomed) so the upper assembly had to come apart. Most common reason people will get ticking in the corners or going over bumps with their newly refurbished suspension is because they do NOT leave enough space between the upper spring perch and the strut bearing, These need to be completely isolated from each other because as the strut bearing is bolted to the body shell and remains stationary, the upper spring perch twists as you twist the steering wheel. If you do not have enough spacing between two plates (washers) then they will bind with eachother resulting in the clunking/banging. This also holds true for adjustable camber plates.



The fixed camber plates go between the strut bearing and the body shell, it relocated the upper spring perch in-board. The plate and perch didn't want to cooperate very well and so a bench vice was needed to press them together.

With the subframe in and the struts now ready we slid in the strut assemblies and bolted the tops to the body and the bottom to the control arm.

The sway bar end links were next. To properly set the end links while the car is up it's best to disconnect the heim-joint from the rest of the link (snug the link down on the control arm) and jack up the the drooping control arm up simulating the arms position while on the ground (this way the bar will have NO pre-loaded stress when driving). The heim-joint and link will line up, simply attach and tighten down.




Brake setup.
The hardlines on the strut were stripped before we touched them, so we had to bend up some new ones. Didn't have much time to spend making them look pretty, but they work. The inner hardlines were luckily not stripped, used the IE stainless flex lines to finish the connections.


Caliper and rotor in place. Make sure the caliper is centered over the rotor, I have had to use different size shims along the caliper bolt (tolerances were not always consistent with the Volvo calipers).


Reattached the steering column (couple of good shoves from inside the car) after swapping over the grounding wire on the steering coupler setup.

After attaching the tie rods to the steering arms and remounting the wheels, we did a manual alignment (old fashioned tape measure and string) and I headed on home with a much nicer behaving suspension.

02-23-2012, 07:06 PM
Driving this car after all the new goodies must have felt nice.

MR 325
02-24-2012, 03:03 AM
Excellent work on that front suspension, it's got to be night and day!

02-24-2012, 06:50 AM
Amazing build. Keep the updates coming! :up:

02-25-2012, 12:52 PM
The difference was night and day, most everything that came off was 40 years old!

Weekend after next the rear suspension will be going in. For now I'm piecing together bits for the M20.

Differential setup will consist of an open E21 case with a late E36ti LSD. If ANYONE has a late E36ti small case LSD that they want to trade for some parts please let me know. Turns out Jeff/Jeremy had a good dozen or so they gave away before I started working. We have plenty of LSD's ready to go, but I wanted the experience of building one myself.

I found a late E21 open case diff w/ 6bolt flange covers to start with, going to go with 3.64 for the gearing.



135mm Ireland Enginering H-beam rods will be used, with the included ARP 2000 bolts, double checked weight and sizes.



02-25-2012, 01:18 PM
I used the 4 bolt e21 diff with a e30 small case pumpkin. It will be fun to see it done differently. There is always more then one way to skin a hores ha? lol
Some one called me Andrew in my build thread yesterday hahaha.
I just got my fly wheel back yesterday an picked up some fuel line and an inline fuel filter. Getting so close to piecing it all together.

04-10-2012, 12:09 AM
Things have been moving along slowly. Here's how the workbench sits right now, you can see the diff is pulled apart waiting for the limited slip pumpkin .....


Just piecing other small bits together including a new thermostat housing assembly. Didn't want to run the corroded heap that was on there. Made a new thermostat kit on the website since we get regular calls for the assembly. ( http://www.iemotorsport.com/bmw/E30-cooling/M20ThKT.html )

Old Vs. New


Starting to assemble valvetrain components. including IE 272 cam, and IE HD rockers w/ new hardware, SS IE valves (standard size).


05-10-2012, 07:49 PM
Nice to see the M20 getting some love!!

Great work keep it up!

08-02-2012, 11:14 AM
I demand updates.

08-11-2012, 10:06 PM
I demand updates.

Ok.... rear subframe, diff later this week.

BMW 2002 Rear subframe removal and installation (performance-street oriented).

I am not responsible for any of your screw-ups. If any of this is confusing, take it to a good shop.

1) Get your car on the lift (for the rear pickup point use the space just forward of the subframe straps [use wood blocks]) and remove the rear wheels. Pull out the new subframe and double check everything is ready to go


2) Remove the exhaust system up to the down pipe.

3) Inspect the existing subframe. I found a couple things that were rather alarming. The diff bolts were attached via regular nuts and were quite loose (so that's what the clunking in the rear during shifts was!)


The other was one of axle nuts was about ready to come off, if not for the cotter pin holding it in place I would have had one nasty reason to call Triple A.


4) Position a tranny jack underneath the diff for good measure.


5) Unbolt both rear axles. WARNING these bolts can be tricky, do not use a common Allan-key but rather a proper Allen-head socket and socket wrench. These bolts are often frozen and can shear off which can be rather frustrating (it's not a bad idea to spray on some wd-40 and let them soak for a while).


Once both axles are removed take the time and check the cv joints. (if a boot is torn consider it bad) Place the palm of your hand on the backside and pivot each joint in a circular rotation, if you feel any grinding or resistance you might want to consider getting another axle or if they're not too bad, new boots and grease (which is a topic for later).

6) Remove the rear drum and unclip the brake shoe retaining clips.

7) Using a flared wrench undo the inner rubber brake line where each side connects to the body line. If you're replacing the rubber lines with stainless steel lines (which is a very good idea) you can always snip the line (watch out for brake fluid) to slide a socket wrench on for that extra little oomph. I snipped my lines, they were so constricted/rotten inside no fluid came out!]


8) Unclip the brake shoes and E-brake cables and pull back out through the backing plate.


Have someone inside the cabin undo the nuts threaded on the other end of the cable and push the threaded ends back out of the retainer rings on the e-brake lever.


Tug on the line from the back to make sure it will come out willingly (might need some cajoling from inside the cabin too, including knocking the retainer pin out of the e-brake lever for more clearance). Rust can build up inside and make it difficult.

9) Now remove the bolts that hold the Differential to the subframe, and loosen the nuts on the driveshaft center bearing support (you don't want to be the drivetrain to be in compression during all this). Remove the rear springs if you haven't already and knock the rear shocks off the bottom stud. Place a second tranny-jack under the rear subframe.


10) Unbolt the subframe mount nuts and remove the subframe mount straps.


Slowly drop the jack while you and a friend simultaneously cajoling the mounts down and off the body studs (rubber hammer helps, but take care not to damage the thread on the studs

11) Now you're free to remove the rear shocks. Undo the jam nuts from inside the trank and push the shock out. Using a rubber hammer remove the rubber upper shock mount (since we're replacing the shocks and they come with new mounts).


12) Now were done removing everything, so go eat lunch or something.


13) First thing is to feed the new e-brake cables up into the cabin, certainly nice to have a friend on this. Pretty straight forward, just the opposite of pulling them out. If you knocked the pin out, from before, just get some nuts on the threaded ends to keep them from going anywhere and leave it for now.

14) Place the preassembeled rear subframe on the jack and bring it up slowly.


Once both side are lined up with pins take the time to attach the rear brakeline since this is when you'll have the most clearance.


Continue to raise the subframe up and slide in the new diff-bolts. On the outside, reinstall the straps and using a new lock nut tighten until snug (NO final torquing yet).

15) Slide the e-brake cables through the holes on the brake shoe backing plates.


16) Next put in your new shocks and springs. The rear shock mounts are very simple. Bilstein provide 2 different type of mounts (a single rubber mount to be pressed in, or two-piece mount, they both function the same way). Using a rubber hammer, hammer them in from the top, it's helps to have your friend pulling underneath.


With the bottom washer and sleeve on the top of the shock slide it up through the rubber mount, add the top washer and nut on top.
Push up the trailing arm and get the Shock onto it's stud and using a new lock nut and washer, tighten it all down.


17) With the shocks and springs in place, next up is installing the brake shoes and drums on the backing plate. Rotate the hex bolt adjusters on the backing plate so that the pin is inward .


Position the brake shoes so that both sides have the pointy end up and attached the bottom retainer spring then place the bottom end of either shoe under the retainer plate on the backing plate.


Now grab the e-brake cable and attached it to the hole in the trailing shoe . Now attached the upper retainer springs and bracket to the upper part of the shoes and put the shoe's pointy ends in either end of the wheel cylinder (this might take a little finagling). Insert the trailing retainer pin (the forward pin should have been installed when assembling the subframe). And slide both retainer clips in place.


With the shoes now secured take the drum and place over top (if it doesn't slide right on DON'T PANIC, simply tap the individual shoes up or down until they line up (at which point the drum will slide on). Last part is to adjust the drums, this simple procedure is covered many places on the internet (and plan on adjusting the drums at every oil change).


18) Now do all of your final bolt tightening. Be sure to tighten subframe mount bolts, Diff bolts & nuts, driveshaft center support bracket nuts, body studs & nuts, trailing arms bolt &nut (it can be tricky to get a wrench over the outside trailing arm nut, bring the wrench in from the front side of the subframe for better clearance).


19) Using a block of wood so as to not damage the trailing arms, compress each arm in turn with one of the jacks (to simulate the car's suspension under load)


and install the sway bar endlink. DO NOT bend the bar to any odd angle, simply disconnect the heim-joint and slider from the endlink bolt, slide them up the bar to your desire spot (the further up the bar you travel the stiffer the bar acts, but go too far and the endlink will bind and break during spirited driving.) then run the bolt and assembly down and thread into the heim-joint. Do not start cinching the heim-joint up the bolt (since the bar should already be at the desired level), simply use the jam nut to make sure everything gets snug.


Now with the sway bars done we're on the home stretch.


20) Next up is the axle installation, using only NEW 10.9 hardware (never reuse these, seen them fail on a number of occasion) and the existing torque plates go ahead and torque everything to spec.


21) bleed brakes (this might take some time and a fair amount of fluid), if you're not familiar with brake bleeding, just use google.

22) reinstall exhaust

23) put rear wheels back on. Lower onto ground and tighten axle nut, this nut is the infamous “jesus nut” and requires *** to properly torque, you'll need a lengthy breaker bar and a heavier guy standing on it to do it justice. Once torqued, take the wheel off and slide a cotter-pin through one of the holes.


24) Done, now go for a drive on a particularly twisty road to enjoy the fruits of your labor!

08-12-2012, 02:53 AM
Wow, I had no idea 2002's didn't come with rack and pinion steering.

Great work!

08-12-2012, 12:00 PM
Good to see some progress!

08-12-2012, 06:34 PM
I love a good M20 build!!

08-13-2012, 05:56 PM
Thanks guys, will try and keep up with the updates.

09-11-2012, 04:33 PM
Couple little updates...

Got myself a period wood wheel, with original horn button. And, yes I need to shampoo my carpets.


Was given this old Becker radio. I love these things, they look great in the 2002. Blaupunk and Becker radios were originally dealer installed options. The Becker's were OEM in a fair amount of old Mercedes and Ferraris' of the era, beyond that I know very little tech. on them. Will be interesting to try and restore it (with Ipod compatibility).


Unfortunately the number 13 car didn't fare so well over the weekend....


MR 325
09-12-2012, 03:08 AM
So sad to see the race car like that, I saw a picture over the weekend. Is Jeff going to fix it?

09-12-2012, 10:57 AM
Hey Mat, apparently there's a full video, but I've yet to see it. The car will be repaired and completely re-wired (been wanting to do this anyways). Priority will be to get the number 5 car (and it's sidedraft engine!) up and running for next season.

Here's the culprit, fatigue failure of the threaded piece going into the carb (weber 38/38).

09-17-2012, 03:33 PM
How To Build the Strongest Small-case Limited-slip Differential For Your 2002.
By Andrew Adams of Ireland Engineering ( a n d r e w a d a m s @ I e m o t o r s p o r t . c o m )

Disclaimer: This is not a beginner project, nor is it meant to be a complete diff-bible, and as such, I (or IE) are not responsible for ANY of your screw-ups. There are some topics which are abbreviated.

This would not have been possible without the constant teaching from Jeff and Jeremy of IE and knowledge of Rob at Precision Gearing. If this project looks a bit much for you, or you have the money but not the time, call Rob (http://precisiongearing.com/ ).

TABLE OF CONTENTS V6.5----------------------------------
– Basics: How a differential works
– Basics: BMW Differentials
Why the E36 318ti LSD?
Different Differential Cases
Rear Cover Options
– Basics: Performance Options
– Differential Rebuild
- Tech photo w/ part names
- Test break-away
- Removing diff from car
- Side-cover and LSD removal
- Pinion Shaft removal
- Cleaning
- Pumpkin Break-down and reassembly
- Pinion Shaft installation
- Pumpkin insertion
- Side-covers and Setting Lash

Basics: How a differential works.----------------------------

For those who'd like to understand the principles of the differential itself, I've attached some videos that explain it far better than I could (thanks Chevy and Toyota!)

Here's a link describing the basics of a clutch-type limited-slip differential (which is what we'll be messing with).

Basics: BMW Differentials.------------------------------------

BMW uses three different sized differentials. SMALL (168mm ring gear), MEDIUM (188mm ring gear), and LARGE (210mm ring gear).

For the sake of this write-up we'll be focusing on the small case limited slip differentials. These are found (as standard or option) on 4-cylinder BMW's in the 2002, E21, E30, and E36 cars.


Why the E36 318ti LSD?-----------------------------------

The E36 318ti lsd's were the last of the line for smalll case lsd's, and as such were the most capable in handling higher amounts of torque than earlier diffs. This is evidenced in a couple of ways.

– The lsd-cap is .5” thick, the thickest out of any bmw/ZF 168mm diff.


– The output shaft collars are noticeably thicker than the E21 & E30 pieces. It is my understanding that they are the same size as the pieces on the the medium-case differentials, but I have not verified that.


– The ring-gear bolts have a serrated underside for better grip.


These address the most common failure-points on the small case diffs, the cap cracking (or the bearing nose shearing), the splines on the spider-gear shafts shearing, and arguably the most common failure point; the ring gears bolts backing themselves out. With this center section I will have the best chance of having a small-case diff that won't blow up when powered by the 6-cylinder M20. This means there is no need to resort to modifying the rear subframe (or paying someone else an obscene amount of money) to fit a medium case differential.

Differential Cases---------------------------

2002 came with 4-bolt side-covers and bolt-in output flanges (with the ’76s having slightly longer output flanges).
E21 EARLY (08/79 and earlier) – 4-bolt side-covers and circlip-held output flanges
E21 LATE (09/79 and later) – 6-bolt side-covers and snap ring held output flanges

I’ll be using the late E21 open case for this with the beefier 6-bolt side-covers and 10mm cv-joint bolts (in the vain hope it will matter). You “should” be able to use a 4-bolt open 2002/e21 case if the center section coming out of the case is the same width as the Limited-slip pumpkin.

Rear Cover options on the 2002 with small case differential.

2002 EARLY (mid '74 and earlier)
2002 LATE ‘finned’
Alpina Finned*
Alpina Chinese knock-off*
Big Billet Cover*
Tap in AN fittings and run a pump/cooler.*

This differential will be using the 02 late finned cover, all the fancy options would be overkill on a street car. I want this differential to be well-engineered, not over-engineered.

The shorter the gear ratio (higher number [4.10,4.40, etc.]) the quicker the acceleration, but with a reduction of your top speed. There are many differential calculators online that should help you to find your ideal setup.

Basics: Performance Options-----------------------------------------

Rather than go into this in detail, I'll be straight forward. Unless this is a dedicated track/rally/autox car then the extra money spent is largely wasted. The only thing I'll be doing is increasing the brake-away torque, which I will not elaborate on.

If you do have a race-car and could benefit from different ramp-angles, added clutches, polished gears, safety-wire, etc. Then please call a 2002 performance parts supplier you trust (do NOT just use anybody and skimp).

Differential Rebuild-----------------------------------------------

1 Exploded view of the differential case and its components.-------------------------------


2 Remove the differential from car (see Marshall's excellent writeup ----------------------here …. http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/option,com_forum/Itemid,50/page,viewtopic/t,373426/ ).

3 Break away:-------------------------------------------------------
Prior to disassembly, measure the break-away torque of your differential (how much force it takes before the LSD clutches slip). A good percentage of the used E21 LSD's out there today are worn to the point where they hold barely more than a sticky open diff (sorry for those of you who paid $400 for an non-inspected E21 LSD). If you can twist the differential out-put flanges in the opposite direction with your hands then you've got a very worn differential. A healthy stock e21/e30/e36 small case LSD should take between 25-30 ft/lbs before slipping. By measuring now, it will give you a good baseline indication on the condition of the individual components inside the center pumpkin.
I measured my E36 pumpkin to have a break-away of 26ft/lbs, so technically I would be ok if I was to just stick it into the case and call it a day. However, I'm shooting for a bit more than 40ft/lbs. which is about the most I'd want out of a street-oriented LSD. (by comparison SPECE30 medium case LSD’s are limited to 65ft/lbs., and most other 2002 race setups are around 80ft/lbs.)

4 Side-cover and LSD pumpkin removal:-------------------------------

First take off the rear cover and drain the oil, this stuff has a rather distinctive smell. Be sure to do this in a well vented area, or near your mother-in-law.


Pop out the diff flanges, this might take something rather long (big flat-head screw-driver. crow bar, or bar stock.). To prevent damage to the side-cover, use the bolt heads for leverage. With the flanges out, use a standard seal puller to remove the flange seal out of the cover.

Remove the side cover bolts (loosen progressively in a cross-hatch pattern so as not to warp the cover [think head bolts/studs]). With the bolts out gently tap around the side-cover with a thin flat-head screw-driver acting as a wedge; if care is taken you will not leave any lasting marks. As the cover starts to come off you'll see some thin shims, these are important to keep with their respective side as they allow for correct laterally spacing of the center-section inside the case. When you pull the side covers off the center-section will come loose and drop in the case, put some rags underneath to pad the fall or risk chipping the ring gear.


String the side cover and shims together while marking the which side of the case they came off of (I simply used a die punch marking one or two corresponding dots) so when it goes back together everything will be in order.

If you are swapping in a LSD pumpkin, remove it front it's case in the same manner.


4) Pinion Shaft removal:---------------------------------------

Now that the pumpkin and side-covers are removed you're left with the Pinion Shaft and the case itself. To start you'll need to pop-out the old lock ring on the backside of the input flange, you can remove it with a flathead screwdriver or drill.

Now you'll need to loosen the nut and to do that you will need to keep the shaft from spinning. BMW made a special tool that looks like this (if you have one, chances are you don't really need any instruction on how to do any of this). You can easily replicate something to imitate this tool's function. Loosen/remove the nut and tap “in” the shaft from the backside to remove the pinion-shaft. DO NOT take a typical hammer to the backside of the shaft; you will damage it in some way. Use a rubber hammer, and if that proves difficult, use a press.


With the shaft removed you will see that the pinion-shaft has the inner roller bearing pressed on it Toss the crush sleeve on the pinion-shaft shaft into the trash. To remove the inner roller bearing from the shaft you'll need to use the press and a strong bearing splitter. If it proves difficult (like it did for me) then use a torch to heat up the bearing a bit.

Now let’s go back to the case and focus on the inner and outer bearing races left in the case from the shaft we just removed. Start by removing the circular baffle with a couple good punches with the flathead.


Punch out the inner race (preferably with a softer metal rod like aluminum to keep your punch from gouging the insides of the case.)


As the race comes out you will see a spacer behind it DO NOT LOSE THIS, it spaces the pinion gear's depth in relation to the ring gear. Each spacer is specific to that particular ring and pinion.


Punch out the outer bearing race from the inside


You can also use a clawed bearing puller but I found the punch method much easier.

With this done the case is now fully disassembled into its sub-components.

CLEANING -------------------------------------

With the case completely apart clean, everything thoroughly. Thoroughly degrease the inside of the case; you don't want any muck causing havoc on your new bearings. Ideally, bath the case in a solution of degreaser. You can take some emery cloth (or scotch-brite pad) and rub down the pinion shaft along with getting all the teeth of the ring gear and pinion head. Then use brake cleaner (or otherwise) to make sure no residue is left behind. Any spec of grit can damage of your refurbished diff.

Prior to paint I broke out some die punches and stamped the case IE/AA/001 3.64.

Pic shows post paint.

Prep and paint the case in the paint of your choosing (engine enamel, por-15, etc.) likewise, with the rear diff-flange and side-covers.


For giggles I polished the rear cover, do whatever makes you happy (understand that the rear cover helps to dissipate heat so powder coating, painting, or otherwise adding insulation is probably not the best idea in the world.)


LSD PUMPKIN BREAK-DOWN & REBUILD-----------------------------------

First I compare both the E21 open center-section and the E36 pumpkin, they are the same height, and therefor compatible with one-another.


You'll notice the E36ti pumpkin has a pinwheel on one end, this pinwheel is read by a sensor on the diff case to calculate speed. Since we're not running this sensor, you can remove the speedo wheel (I used a die grinder).


If you are changing the gear ratio, remove the ring-gear from the pumpkin. To do this loosen the bolts a little at a time in a crisscross manner (just like head studs/bolts). With all of the bolts removed you will need to use a punch through the empty bolts holes and tap the ring-gear off (be sure to have some rags down for the ring to land on.


Now we tackle the case, using a bearing puller (or in my case, a bearing splitter and bench press) pull off the roller bearings from either end.


Using the same crisscross method as the ring gear bolts loosen and remove the allan-head bolts attaching top cover to the case. As you loosen the bolts you'll notice the top cover is held in tension by the as the internals expand. (Note the picture still shows the bearing in place, just ignore it)A weak limited-slip (with a low break-away) is simply due to a lack of tension on the internal components i.e. low break-away = worn internal parts = lost material = more space in case = less tension under load.


BLOW UP DIAGRAM OF INTERNAL COMPONENTS--------------------------------------


As you remove the cap you will notice 2 smaller washers (#2 & #3), the top piece is the smaller Diaphragm Spring aka Bellview Washer (make sure you see what way direction this goes in, you don’t want to put it back in upside down). The second washer is the Stop Disk, it has two indents on the bottom that allow for oil flow.

The first large disk is the larger Bellview Washer (#4), this provides much of the tension in the differential. Inspect the top surface near the inside diameter, a worn Washer will have a wear ridge there, if you can feel a change in height with your finger nail, replace the washer.

Next you have the dog-eared Outer Disk (#5), this disk acts like the surface face of a flywheel. It's available in a few thicknesses, with the thickest giving a higher break-away (but go too thick and you'll essentially have a locked diff. with no break-away). Check for any grooves or ridges and replace as necessary. Just as a flywheel you can also “resurface” the side of the plate which faces the clutch plate, just take fine-grade sandpaper (500grit) and scuff the surface evenly. The Outer-Disks on this diff looked and felt smooth, so all I needed to do was a little scuffing.


After the dog-eared Outer Disk you have the Inner Disk aka clutch-disk (#6)(and as you'd imagine it functions in the same way the clutch-disk works on the transmission). These clutch-disks have a grippy high-friction material coating on them. If your disk has no or little material left (will feel smooth to the touch) then it will slip much easier, replace it. These can develop a smooth inner ring and still have a grippy outer-ring, if this is the case, still replace it.


At the center of the LSD we have the Spider Gears and their housings.(#7, #8, & #9) The spider-gear housing pieces are officially known as the Compression Rings (#7) since they are the pieces that moves out-ward under load which put pressure on the clutch disk “locking” the differential. Like the dog-eared outer disk you can lightly scuff the surface. http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/diff%20rebuild/final28.jpg

Just inside and poking out of the Compression Ring, we have the Side Gear (#8) portion of the Spider Gears. The output flanges stick into these so the beefier the better. Check for cracks, if you can, get them magnafluxed along with the other parts of the spider gear and Ring & Pinion.


Finally in the middle are the 4 Bevel Gears and shafts (#9). Check them over carefully for hairline cracks.


From that point on everything on the bottom half of the case is a mirror image of the top, inspect everything and replace as necessary. Once the guts are all ready, use 2 new allan-head bolts [8x16 10.9] to secure the diff-top. Using a press, install the new roller bearings on either end. Make sure to only put pressure on the bearing's inner sleeve. Ignore that all the allan heads are in place in the pictures.



The last thing to do on the pumpkin is to bolt the ring-gear in place. First make absolutely sure there is nothing on either the ring-gear or differential mating surfaces (clean with denatured alcohol or similar). The ring is a snug fit so you might need to warm it up a bit with a torch before sliding into place (Hopefully you’ve waited for the denatured alcohol to evaporate, otherwise torch and alcohol equal BOOM!). Use some longer 12x1.5mn bolts to thread into the ring gear to act as guides as it’s lowered in place. With new bolts (or safety wired original bolts) torque the ring gear bolts down to 110ft/lbs using the slow crisscross method. When they are torqued down apply a dab of paint-pen paint to each bolt edge, this will allow for visual check when you want to make sure the bolts aren’t backing out. (If the paint seal is broke then the bolt has moved.)


Bolt down the top-cap with a couple of the allan-heads (not final torque), and check the break-away torque now while it is easy. I measured mine out to 43ft/lbs before slipping; perfect!

PINION GEAR INSTALL---------------------------------------------


Tackle the pinion gear assembly first, and the first step is to install the new inner and outer races. These can be rather tight, so it's a good idea to have them sit in the freezer a few hours prior to inserting them. On the inner race be sure to set the spacer/washer from the disassembly in prior to tapping the race in. Start tapping the race in until it sits snug on the washer/spacer (tap in the crisscross method to keep the race from going in sideways).

Use a press to install the new inner roller bearing onto the pinion shaft.

Slide the pinion from the inside, then from the other side slide on a new crush sleeve, roller bearing, seal, rear output flange, and the nut. Get the nut started by hand, but then attach the BMW special tool (or your equivalent) to the rear output flange and keep tightening with the socket (though you might need to switch to a breaker bar). At this point it's extremely helpful to have a couple of friends on deck to keep the diff from flopping over.

The factory manual calls for 25ft/lbs. of rotating torque. As you tighten the Pinion Shaft Nut down you'll feel quite a bit of resistance from the crush sleeve, be sure to stop frequently to rotate the flange/pinion by hand. With every twist the pinion should spin easier. Repeat this process until you hit the 25ft/lb mark continually (that is to say the pinion doesn't loosen as you twist) the final feel is similar to putting a finger in molasses (thick but smooth). With the nut torqued down, tap in your new lock-plate (it will be tight but it will expand into the relief slot on the flange [if you don't bend it in half]).


SIDE-COVERS & PUMPKIN INSERTION --------------------------------------

One of the more difficult parts of the entire process is the removal of the side-cover bearing races. Typically a race will have some sort of lip to use a punch or puller on allowing for removal, for some reason the E21 open diff's side-covers have no such access.


The only way to remove them is to carefully drill a few small angled access holes on the face of the cover so you can run a punch through and pop out the race.




(Then mask one end of the hole and fill with some JB weld). If there's a better way, I'm all ears.


Put the side-cover bearing races in the freezer for a half an hour (shrinking them slightly just as before with the pinion).

With the JB weld now dry and the cover's race surfaces clean and flush, take the new race out of the freezer and using your old race as a driver, tap the race in as before. With both side-covers races in, remove each of the old rubber O-rings and replace them with new ones. Press in new out-put flange seals.


With your side covers (and their respective shims) ready it's now time to address how to get the E36ti assembly in without any modification. If you try and take the pumpkin and simply slide it in you'll see that it will not fit.


Remove the 2 Allan-head bolts you bolted in to secure the pumpkin top-cover. Take care that you don't spill the pumpkin guts. With the top-cover removed there is now plenty of room the slide the pumpkin inside the case.


With the case inside, slide in the top cover and simply start bolting the Pumpkin top-cover through the side-cover opening. Use new bolts and some loc-tite,


torque the bolts to 25 ft/lbs using the crisscross method, to get that much torque you'll need to slide the passenger side flange in through the case and mount it stationary (bench vice), this will allow you to tighten a bold, back back the flange off, and rotate the pumpkin until all of the bolts are torqued.


Now with the pumpkin ready, slide one side-cover/shim on (use a little assembly grease) and tighten down 2 bolts. Tip the diff onto the side that has the side-cover bolted in and maneuver the pumpkin so one end sits in the side-cover race, this will line up the diff so you can slide in the other side-cover from the top, tighten 2 bolts as before. Now you're ready to start testing for lash.

Setting Lash----------------------------------------------------------

Please note that the factory manual goes over setting correct lash in-depth using precise measurements. After doing a few diffs via the manual you can start to feel the differences by hand. This is very hard to convey via a technical write-up, but I’ve given it a shot.

Lash defines the contact between the ring-gear and the pinion-gear. Too tight and the friction between the gears will be enough that the teeth will start flaking metal and stress-cracks will soon brake the gears. A too-tight lash can be identified by having a contact patch on the inner portion of the ring gear teeth (and there will be NO give when turning the input flange). Too loose and the gear teeth will shear clean off during high bursts of torque (i.e. drag racing, donuts, burnouts, etc.). This is identified by having a contact patch on the outside edge of the ring gear teeth. A proper lash will have a full contact patch on the middle of the teeth and a little give before the gears mesh which can be felt when turning the input flange.

To adjust the distance between the gears (thus adjusting lash) we use the side-cover shims

These shims compensate for manufacturing tolerances of the pumpkin and can move it laterally within the case. A thicker shim on the driver's side will set the ring-gear further away from the pinion-gear. A thicker shim on the passenger side pushes the ring-gear closer to the pinion-gear. I used Dicum layout fluid to observe the gear contact patch, you can use any sort of marking paste or fluid.


Many shim sizes are still available through BMW and typically cost $8-$10 each.

With all that in mind, the total shim thickness for the two shims on my e21 case was.120”


I test fit the new pumpkin with each shim as it was originally. This proved to be way too tight, there was no give in the input flange when turning and a test swatch of Dicum on the teeth showed a contact pattern on the far inside. For the next test I stacked both shims on the driver's side (pulling the ring-gear away from the pinion gear), that resulted in too much lash (about 1/4” inch before the gears contacted one-another) but it was better than the first test. My ideal lash was somewhere in between, going onto ETK and converting metric to standard I ordered the thickest shim available (.08”) and a corresponding (.04”) shim to maintain the .120” total thickness.

Once the new shims came in I put them on and broke out the Dicum once again.


In the initial twisting of the input flange, I found there was about 1/16th” lash before gear contact (near perfect!). Rotating the ring-gear through yielded a nice fat contact patch in the middle of the ring-gear.


Lash set, and ready to go.

For the final assembly of the side-covers I pulled the 2 test bolts from either cover, added a touch of loc-tite, and torqued down all 6 bolts for each side. As the Piece de resistance I popped on the polished re-drilled output flanges. I'll be using the stock '02 8mm cv-joints for now but will switch the the 10mm E21 cv-joints once the M20 goes in.




Lastly was the rear cover gasket and rear cover. With those in place I had a complete, tough, limited-slip diff ready to be installed and broken in.

That's all for right now, I will be editing all this over the next couple days.

09-17-2012, 03:50 PM
Nice writeup andrew.

There are a couple other ways to remove a blind bearing race besides drilling holes.

One is a blind bearing extractor and if that cant be made to work (very unusual) you can take a mig welder and weld a stout bead around the inside I D of the race. 3/4 of the way around is usually enough, and as the weld cools it contracts and shrinks the bearing and it will usually fall out.

Also, just heating the whole assembly to 350 degrees or so would allow the bearing to fall out (or close to it) due to the components different mean diameters.

09-17-2012, 04:06 PM
Thanks Lorin for the input, none of the extractors I had on hand did the job. Will have to try the heating process on the next go around.

future rs
09-17-2012, 04:22 PM
your buildup is well documented! love reading threads like this.

BTW love the avatar :) best skiing game ever made.

09-17-2012, 09:36 PM

awesome writeup man!

09-18-2012, 04:36 PM
Great write up can you build me a diff for my project car

09-20-2012, 11:51 AM
Fatastic thread. Especially ... well ... especially all of it.

Also, anyone ever see "Mater's Tall Tales" and the episode where Mater and Lighting McQueen go to the moon, then Lightning has a little trouble with the re-entry when they get back to earth ...

Mater, "Just watch out on that re-entry"
Lightining, "Watch out on the wha-? Ow. OW! Hot. Hot. HOT! HOT! HOT!"


09-20-2012, 04:26 PM
Haha, my 2 year old just saw "Cars" for the first time, he's hooked & I'm proud.

Thanks for the accolades guys, its creeping along.

Started thinking about fuel delivery and throttle linkage a bit more, so the following is just some ramblings....

I want to do a top mount Bar-Style linkage with an arm to each carb. The downside to this is if I run a universal linkage kit from weber then each arm is a threaded rod with jam nut (to be shortened or lengthened per application) this will mean that to sync the carbs, each lever will need to be EXACTLY the same. The room for error and the possibility that the jam nuts could loosen, is just too much potential headache.


The solution is going to be to make some levers with fixed attachment points specifically for the M20 and this manifold. Will need to mock up a universal setup to check for length and angle, pretty straight forward. From the bar I'll need the proper sized cable (Lokar). Was talking with Patrick @ Midnight Motorsports and he said he's got a pretty sweet Lokar hot-rod style pedal assembly, will have to look into it a bit more.

Carter Low-pressure pump near the tank fed to a fuel regulator in the engine bay, then run a stainless hard line to each carb.

Inspiration is the ex-Korman E9 CSL

10-13-2012, 06:18 PM
Very nice job on the diff write up Andrew! I hope you are having/had a lot of fun at scam vintage!

10-13-2012, 10:33 PM
Awesome Write Up Andrew! And great seeing you again today! I will pass this info over to Max!

10-13-2012, 11:32 PM
Great as always. Those are some serious camber plates on the CSL. It's giving me bad ideas.....

10-15-2012, 04:13 PM
Igor, congrats on the E30 win at Socalvintage. Thanks for passing this on to Max.

deutschman - bummed you couldn't come down. Hope all is well.

Jonathan - as if your car isn't insane enough already... haha. Sending you a couple more pictures you might like.

Short Term to-do "write-up" list.
-Hidden stereo system
-Getrag E21 323 4speed tranny/combine with Getrag 245 to create skinny M20 compatible 5-speed.

10-15-2012, 04:18 PM
Im having a blast at boat building school right now. Ill be back in the Bay Area next year around September, and will be looking for another 2002 then. Alex at Caltuned has my m20 project 02 and will be finishing and fixing my mistakes when he finds the time. Should be nice just like all their other cars.
Ill be at the next vintage!

10-15-2012, 04:33 PM
Hot Damn! This work is beautiful, Is this your car andrew? or a company car? I remember talking to you about your 02 over the phone...

10-21-2012, 05:24 PM
Sick build man just blew my mind!!

10-29-2012, 01:32 PM
88SuperETABD - This is my personal car, currently it sees about 60 miles a day. I do remember talking with you!

Couple little updates.

STEREO SETUP -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Radio - Finished wiring diagram for an ipod-controlled hidden stereo setup. Thanks to the guys in the audio section for edu-ma-cating me.


Tried to work with the rusty becker radio, didn't work out so good. It was just too far gone for me and my limited electronic knowledge. Instead I found a practically new-old-stock Becker Europa that was miss-labeled on ebay, got it for a steal! It was wrapped in 1972 newspaper, but USPS managed to crack the faceplate during shipping. Ordered a nice replacement from Becker Autosound.

Dismantled the radio for a good cleaning, put on the replacement faceplate. Pretty excited to get this bad boy in there.

TRANSMISSION ---------------------------------------------------------------------

As mentioned before I'm going to combine the 4-speed bellhousing (getrag 242) from the euro E21 320/6 with the guts of the us-spec. E21 320i (5-speed getrag 245). Combined this should give me a tranny that does not require me to do any cutting to the transmission tunnel.

Steve (not sure on user name) was kind enough to ship me the euro 4-speed tranny, to mate with a 245 here in the shop.

Lined up the transmissions to get a visual understanding of the differences. Note the M20 260 bellhousing and case is pretty thick, hence the reason behind the need to expand the tranny tunnel.


You can also see the bellhousing dimensional differences between the M10 and M20 tranny's


11-30-2012, 11:10 AM
Pretty stoked! Got the go ahead to start playing around with velocity stacks with the intent to put them into production (of course this coincides nicely with this project). Since Weber production switched from Italy to Spain, slip-fit velocity stacks for the sidedraft DCOE40 carb have only been produced in the 1.5" length. I want something longer (either 3-4" straight, or 3" angled [to clear brake booster]).

Playing around yesterday ....

Alfa inspiration (since they too have clearance issues)....

12-20-2012, 04:55 PM
Getting closer, next its off to the powder coater. (Thinking red, like the old Alpina A4 injection setups.)


01-10-2013, 04:38 PM
Heyoh! Back from the powder-coaters. One more thing down.


Another "workbench update" almost ready to start putting in the stereo. Will have writeup in within the next couple weeks.


01-10-2013, 05:08 PM
Great build! I miss my 2002s.

01-11-2013, 12:29 PM
I can't wait to see those Webers on the engine!

01-11-2013, 12:32 PM
This is so fantastic.

01-11-2013, 03:23 PM
Wow Andrew! Great job on those stacks. They look great, and I think they will sound really nice as well.

01-16-2013, 04:33 PM
I can't wait to see those Webers on the engine!

Preaching to the Choir! Can't happen soon enough.

Clutch and Flywheel setup:


Lightened/balanced stock 325i single mass flywheel:

18.5 pounds stock machined down to 13.8 pounds. Wouldn't want to go more than that. You can see that machining the lip any closer to the ring gear can cause the ring gear loose. You'd be able to flip the flywheel over and extend the center bevel for a bit more weight savings but the minute amount of material you'd be able remove doesn't justify the added effort/expense in my mind.


E30 M3 Pressure Plate (not sport):
Stiffer center diaphragm spring over the 325i pressure plate (but not quite as stiff as the Clutch Masters +1 pp), should be just right for a hot-rod street engine.

E30 clutch disk and throwout bearing:
Debated going to Kevlar, but since there will be a fair amount of stop and go the stock disk should be up to the job.

Not bothering with the Spec and F1 setups, simply have seen too many fail. Common problems and failure points: tolerances on clutch disk splines not very accurate, pressure plate side straps made from some less-than-ideal material (snapping under a hard shift), disk de-laminating, etc. While they are a bargain, just not worth skimping on.

01-16-2013, 04:41 PM

MR 325
01-17-2013, 03:00 AM
That will be the perfect setup Andrew. Still nice and drivable!

02-04-2013, 05:49 PM
Hidden Stereo write-up.
Let me be VERY upfront, I am NOT a stereo guy, none of this would have been possible if it had not been from input by several members here and on the faq board (Micah, Marshall, Stereoinstaller, Andrew, ken, and others).

The goal, completely hidden, ipod controlled stereo setup that retains a Becker head unit.

The speaker, wiring, and amp specifics is on the wiring diagram, if someone wants it (a lot larger and legible file) please email me.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/stereo1_zps545298f3.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/stereo1_zps545298f3.jpg.html)

...were mostly from Jo-Anns (my wife loves pointing that out to me everytime she gets in the car).

-marine-grade black vinyl which surprisingly matched the original vinyl perfectly. (for front console and front speaker panels)
-open-cell foam (for rear speaker shelf)
-Headliner foam (for front speaker insolation)
-speaker cloth (for rear speaker shelf and front speakers)
-black micro-suede (for center ash tray)
-dynamatt (for rear speaker shelf)
-wood (for amp shelf and rear speaker shelf)
-interior carpet (for amp shelf)



Re-wrapped in vinyl, on the center ash tray I used a dremel to whittle away at the retention clip to allow clearance for the ipod. Wrapped the inside with micro-suede/


Made a hole in the backside for the ipod connector.


Enlarged the stereo opening for becker and made backside support arm (ran a new cheap speaker for the becker).


Finished off with this beautiful hand-made shift knob by David (I think it’s proportioned perfectly to the car, not diminutive like the alpina knob).

(http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/option,com_forum/Itemid,50/page,viewtopic/t,379457/ )


Driver’s side, I used the stock under dash panel, (Thanks to Ken Blasko). Cut out speaker hole wrapped it in vinyl, insolated the backside and stretched over some speaker cloth.



Passenger’s side, made new panel as the stock piece was warped to badly. Repeated same steps as driver’s side.


Basically copied what Marshall did, new rear panel attached speakers. Layered the dynamat, foam and speaker cloth. Micah gave me the idea to use bang matts for the rear speakers to sit in. The bang matts help to seal the rear panel keeping out fumes, plus you can’t see the ugly speakers jutting into your trunk.



I made a little wood shelf that fit in nicely (covered in carpet), mounted the amp and signal booster to it. Drilled a couple of wire access holes and was set!


Wired everything up according to the diagram…..


The volume control knob is the old choke-cable knob on the steering column. Welded a piece of the old threaded cable end to the JL-supplied supplied adjuster, and wah-lah!


The interior looks better than it has in a long long time, now it sounds better too!


02-04-2013, 05:53 PM
Very slick!

02-04-2013, 05:58 PM
That Nardi <3 loving the build, looks so good.

02-04-2013, 06:06 PM
That looks absolutely awesome! If you hadn't of shown me where the new stuff is i would not have guessed.

02-04-2013, 06:34 PM
Looking good! Hey sorry my offer of making you a shifter knob never panned out. I really thought I had everything worked out and then it just fell through and never ended up coming to fruition. If you'd like me to send that knob back to you, I still have it.

02-04-2013, 06:41 PM
thanks F3ar, Igor, Kyle!

Jeremy, don't worry about the knob, all too aware how "Life Happens" sometimes.

* I'll try proofreading this, looks like some bits were missed.

02-04-2013, 08:13 PM
Yes! Fantastic work on the stereo

MR 325
02-05-2013, 03:22 AM
Andrew, that's amazing!

02-05-2013, 03:00 PM
Jaw Dropping and very inspirational!!!


04-03-2013, 11:09 PM
Sorry for the lack of updates, finally getting back to the engine. Decided to say screw it, I'm going 2.9. Starting to get Ignition and Fuel squared away as well. Just need more hours in a day.

Got the sidedrafts now.


Broke out the Dycum to start on the cylinder head.




Love me some new tools too, now all I need is some cunifer tubing!


04-03-2013, 11:39 PM
I like where this is going!

04-04-2013, 08:17 AM
100% cool no doubt about it.

04-04-2013, 02:47 PM

What brand? I cant make out the label. I'd like a set of these my self.

04-05-2013, 05:20 PM
What brand? I cant make out the label. I'd like a set of these my self.

Wanted something that wouldn't break when I try to bend stainless. Flare tool is Ridged (neat little ratchet action on top) and the bender is Imperial. Can't wait to start using them.

Also planning remote oil filter and cooler setup. Starting 90' off the block.


04-05-2013, 07:40 PM
Thanks Andrew.
Your hands are on the wrong sides. lol

04-05-2013, 08:43 PM
Your hands are on the wrong sides. lol

He could be lying on his back...

04-05-2013, 09:59 PM
Or he could be a mutant BMW genius!

MR 325
04-06-2013, 01:49 AM
Or he could be a mutant BMW genius!

04-08-2013, 01:37 PM
Dunno, but here's a self portrait.


04-08-2013, 10:35 PM
Baby Ruth?

05-17-2013, 10:47 PM
Baby Ruth?

The Goonies!

Well, I've still been hoarding more and more parts. Still not moving very fast.

Frank was nice enough to bring these for me! The M20's have a difficult time with headers into the 2002 with the framerail right there. If anything should works it's these. They tuck up nice and tight. Now off for some ceramic coating!

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/IMG_5542_zps296fc118.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/IMG_5542_zps296fc118.jpg.html)

While digging through our stash at work, I came across this new block. Still had the BMW tag on it. Should make for a good starting point, was certainly a nice little surprise.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/NOS2_zpsf7a6b8ef.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/NOS2_zpsf7a6b8ef.jpg.html)

Am starting to play around with some new possible piston designs with our supplier ROSS. Starting with a fresh combustion chamber casting.

Letting it set.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/IMG_5865_zpsc391ffad.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/IMG_5865_zpsc391ffad.jpg.html)

Popped out.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/IMG_5871_zpscc9fae4e.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/IMG_5871_zpscc9fae4e.jpg.html)

05-18-2013, 05:59 AM
Now that's exciting.

I wish I'd known that my pistons were going to come back flat top when I ordered them... I definitely would have looked elsewhere.

05-20-2013, 11:21 PM
Trying to fix shortcomings as I can, hopefully this'll keep from any further potential disappointment. If anything it'll have to be listed as an option when it comes to fruition.

05-21-2013, 03:47 PM
Read this entire thread start till present. Incredible attention to detail and work have gone into this. It was exciting to read every new update. I can only imagine the feeling of getting this all together for the first time. Excellent work!

05-21-2013, 06:39 PM
Thanks Nick, some days i feel snails zooming by.

FUEL: kinda changed things around a bit here.

I've got nearly the entire fuel setup ready. Basically be running a low pressure electric Carter pump to the Malpassi adjustable regulator (need to tap in pressure gauge). up and over to a hot-rod style brazed fuel rail. Similar to the Jaguar setup below....

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/NAJaguarShow022_zps432cf1b1.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/NAJaguarShow022_zps432cf1b1.jpg.html)

Neat story on the rail.... was looking all over for stainless braze T-fittings, couldn't find any. Then saw Stromburg Carbs (you hotrodders will be familiar) came out with a rail using the fittings I needed (picture below)!

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/0df04728-5873-4853-877b-1d54cc75f23c_zps8b316949.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/0df04728-5873-4853-877b-1d54cc75f23c_zps8b316949.jpg.html)

So I email Clive there and he says, sure he's got 5 pieces left from prototyping and tosses them in the post for me from the UK for $25. I couldn't make them for that! Was pretty happy, plus I'll have a bit of a hot-rod connection going on. Now just waiting on the Cunifer tube and break out the Oxy-Acytelene torch!

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/IMG_5897_zpsbc747b98.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/IMG_5897_zpsbc747b98.jpg.html)


Just needing to do some wires and have whodwho do an ingition-only MS setup.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/7bb484e9-04d2-4ce6-a2b5-b955f8e4571d_zpsa9b6db46.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/7bb484e9-04d2-4ce6-a2b5-b955f8e4571d_zpsa9b6db46.jpg.html)

07-24-2013, 09:08 PM
Well pistons are now done ....

For wire routing with the wasted spark setup I wanted something that looked factory and not messy. Asked our ignition wire supplier to send me a set of disassembled 325i 8mm wires with longer, uncut, ends along with the HEI boots. I dremeled an opening on the other end of the loom and reversed the wire order (shrink wrap wire numbers were a nice bonus).

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/bf755d9f-8568-436c-b5ff-e22b6c1418f5_zps82243cf9.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/bf755d9f-8568-436c-b5ff-e22b6c1418f5_zps82243cf9.jpg.html)

Mocked up on an extremely accurate engine bay reproduction .... if anybody else is running a wasted spark setup I have made these a repeatable part number with our supplier so just let me know (can also use the EDIS boots if needed). Now the last step for ignition is to go bug whodwho.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/m20WSwiresweb_zps37430920.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/m20WSwiresweb_zps37430920.jpg.html)

07-24-2013, 09:18 PM
Very cool.
By the way. MSD headers (also in SoCal) fit well in an m20 2002.

07-25-2013, 08:50 AM
looking super!

07-25-2013, 04:08 PM
I'm not sure if I'm upset or happy, you stole my idea for placement of the coils and reversing the run of wires in the stock holder!


On the plus side I can just order them from you now as opposed to having to make them by hand. I suppose I can't complain to much...

07-25-2013, 05:00 PM
I'm not sure if I'm upset or happy, you stole my idea for placement of the coils and reversing the run of wires in the stock holder!

On the plus side I can just order them from you now as opposed to having to make them by hand. I suppose I can't complain to much...

Dang it, I forgot that's the way you were doing it, but I remember looking at your pics. Must have stuck in my subconscious. Well, when your ready email and I'll sell one to you for cost, since it was your idea.

As for the MSD headers, I'm pretty well acquainted with them. We were the ones who had them start making those in the first place. Won't go into it, but simply got tired of dealing with quality control issues. Now they're supplying another SoCal supplier.

Chris at only02.com called the other day for some bits, got talking and turns out he made some conversion mounts ..... couldn't resist.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/IMG_6166_zpsc119a0a4.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/IMG_6166_zpsc119a0a4.jpg.html)

07-25-2013, 06:09 PM
Hhhhm interesting. To bad they couldn't keep up on their end.
Those mounts look nice.

07-25-2013, 07:17 PM
Dang it, I forgot that's the way you were doing it, but I remember looking at your pics. Must have stuck in my subconscious. Well, when your ready email and I'll sell one to you for cost, since it was your idea.

No worries, great minds think alike!

MR 325
07-26-2013, 03:52 AM
I like the ignition wire setup! I really want to add coil packs to my MS setup.

07-26-2013, 09:59 AM
Love everything about this build.
Thread title delivers!

Chris at only02.com called the other day for some bits, got talking and turns out he made some conversion mounts ..... couldn't resist.

I always see some interesting pieces and cars when i hang out at their shop. They always recommend IE too!

07-26-2013, 05:46 PM
Subbed, this is great stuff. And Andrew, we've talked a lot! I'm the guy with the Touring up in Canada running half your catalog ;)

09-04-2013, 04:24 PM
Subbed, this is great stuff. And Andrew, we've talked a lot! I'm the guy with the Touring up in Canada running half your catalog ;)

Stan, I remember. Tend to remember given its a touring!

During lunch I mocked up everything together on the M20 build. Can't wait to see this thing sitting in the car but the list of parts not finished is still pretty long. In the words of Mr. Cash "one piece at a time" (notice the "stealth intake manifold")

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/12_zps15b9be28.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/12_zps15b9be28.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/14_zpsbfa4005a.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/14_zpsbfa4005a.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/17_zpsd71b66dd.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/17_zpsd71b66dd.jpg.html)

09-04-2013, 04:52 PM
Need to clean your engine stand :P

09-23-2013, 01:06 PM
Stunning engine work in for vids later

09-23-2013, 01:07 PM
Damn that's a pretty engine

11-24-2013, 01:34 AM
Need to clean your engine stand :P

Fair enough John.... I was scared to show how dirty it was behind that grey sheet.
Time is flying but not so much time has been spent on the car. The front end got a little squished a couple months ago so a new front section is here. Right now i am in my second semester of TIG classes (makes a nice break from the math classes). My wife and I are expecting our second Son this week, the little guy is actually due on Thanksgiving!

Also have been making/selling pre-bent cunifer brake hardline kits on the side. Haven't caught up with local demand to advertise quite yet.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/fstrut2_zps98ae903c.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/fstrut2_zps98ae903c.jpg.html)

11-24-2013, 01:49 PM
Nice intake manifold - I assume it's not very restrictive :nice:

11-24-2013, 03:18 PM
whats the progress on your m20?

11-24-2013, 04:07 PM
Nice intake manifold - I assume it's not very restrictive :nice:

Haha, no balance tube needed for tuning!

knuklehead92 - not much, hopefully I'll have some substantial updates over Christmas time.

11-24-2013, 04:19 PM
Engine just looked so fresh compared to the stand, no offense! Most people who work in a shop are scared to show the clutter lol.

11-24-2013, 05:18 PM
Is that stand actually dirty, or is it just super old and in need of a paint job - wait, who the fuck paints their old, work engine stand? lol.

11-24-2013, 06:25 PM
I borrowed an engine stance once from a buddy who had it chromed. (Crazy if you ask me) photo'd well :D

11-24-2013, 07:18 PM
I borrowed an engine stance once from a buddy who had it chromed. (Crazy if you ask me) photo'd well :D
I want a stanced chrome stand hehehe

11-24-2013, 07:48 PM
Pretty sure we're talking about a stance'd engine that's chrome here... lol

11-25-2013, 11:28 AM
S t a n d

11-28-2013, 05:24 PM
S t a n d

I think we may be onto something here, haha. Throw in some hand engraving too!

John - no offence taken, I'm starting to understand that the clutter is a positive sign if anything.
So I've went ahead and listed the hardlines over on the FAQ, not sure if there's much market for E30's but we'll see.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/final1web_zpse886424d.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/final1web_zpse886424d.jpg.html)

Also a little tig love... now to find an excuse to make something.....

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/IMG_9785f_zpse0262aad.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/IMG_9785f_zpse0262aad.jpg.html)

11-28-2013, 05:36 PM
Just found this thread I've wanted a triple weber M20 ever since I drove a korman dual weber m10 car. Can't wait to see/hear the final product!

12-12-2013, 11:35 PM
I've been looking for a nice VDO Series-one clock to round out my gauge cluster for quite a while and was getting a little discouraged. They've been NLA for a number of years and non-existent on any message board. Called North Hollywood Speedo for some other gauges and asked if they had the little clock hiding away. The gentleman who answered the phone said "well why don't we just make you one? We can make it look extremely close to the original."

Got the gauges yesterday including the little clock and am very very happy. (while their site doesn't list prices, they were less-expensive than egauges when I asked for a quote) Now I'm dusting off the tachometer to send it over to be recalibrated for the M20.

Love the series-one gauges with the silver dollar cluster, but for the moment, here's everything mocked up.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/IMG_9721_zps9c53f2ed.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/IMG_9721_zps9c53f2ed.jpg.html)

Here are the VDO series-one part numbers if anyone is interested.

#350-303 (gauge only) [ohm 10-180]
#360-009 double prong sender 1/8-27 NPT (can tie into 8psi low-pressure warning light)
#555-100463 1/8”-27npt to 1/2” adapter bushing (to mount at remote cooler housing)

#310-3051 (Imperial Kit, includes sender and adapter bush)

#370-301 NoLongerAvailable, special order from North Hollywood Speedometer.

12-13-2013, 01:10 PM
Very cool

12-13-2013, 02:53 PM
They made that clock from what... scratch?? Regardless, it looks stock.

12-14-2013, 11:38 PM
Very nice looking gauges. Any idea if they could convert the face of an Innovative Wideband gauge to match the rest of my Series 1 stuff?

12-17-2013, 10:03 AM
Very nice looking gauges. Any idea if they could convert the face of an Innovative Wideband gauge to match the rest of my Series 1 stuff?

That's actually a very good question. I don't know but there's a very good chance.

I don't know but an educated guess would be that they used the guts and face from a different vdo clock.

12-17-2013, 11:06 AM
nice gauges andrew

12-17-2013, 02:18 PM
Doesn't really matter... looks good, that's all that really counts (as long as it works... lol)

01-05-2014, 01:53 PM
Just caught up on the progress of the build, looking good!

I picked up an 02 myself, will be giving you a call at IE soon, gotta get some m20 head parts to finish my 2.9L which will now be going into the '70 02.

Do you guys have motor mounts for sale for the swap? also, you gonna use a getrag 260 on either of these? I plan to use the e30 drivetrain.

What do you think your "Strongest small case diff" can handle power wise?

my 2.9L m20 will be turbo'd, so it looks like 2002haus guy's rear subframe is my only option?

Maybe I'll shoot ya a PM with all my questions so I dont flood your build! hah.

01-05-2014, 07:38 PM
Sub'd! The sheer quality and amount of work, not to mention the detail in the updates in pure inspiration!

Hanging out for more :D

01-05-2014, 11:03 PM
There's a lot of M20 goody here.

01-06-2014, 01:15 PM
Just caught up on the progress of the build, looking good!

I picked up an 02 myself, will be giving you a call at IE soon, gotta get some m20 head parts to finish my 2.9L which will now be going into the '70 02.

Do you guys have motor mounts for sale for the swap? also, you gonna use a getrag 260 on either of these? I plan to use the e30 drivetrain.

What do you think your "Strongest small case diff" can handle power wise?

my 2.9L m20 will be turbo'd, so it looks like 2002haus guy's rear subframe is my only option?

Maybe I'll shoot ya a PM with all my questions so I dont flood your build! hah.

Hey, Yes I saw your posting over on the faq! (I go by AceAndrew over there). We don't carry motor mounts, I refer people over to Chris @ only02.com. He makes a very good mount.

I REALLY don't like using the getrag 260 on this setup, the E21 323 getrag 245 makes the swap very clean and efficient where as with the 260 requires a lot of finagling (Meaning more chances of screwing up and I've seen several screwed up. Of course people don't like posting their mistakes though.) IF you're using the 260, just be sure you measure twice and cut once.
If you haven't seen this link already, its a very good intro. http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/49429-m20-conversion/

The strength of the diff also depends a great deal on how you drive the car. I'd feel comfortable running the diff up to about 220whp with my driving style. Any more than that and it's medium-case time. The 02autohas setup is NOT your only option.

Couple other diff options include:
1) You can consider grafting in the entire E30 subframe and trailing arms, this would also give you rear disks. I've got some detailed shots of this if you email me.
2) Graft on the hoop portion of the E30 subframe onto the 2002 subframe.
3) Pull an Oscar and go all sorts of crazy ... http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/110148-bmw-1602-67-m20b25-turbo-525whp/

01-06-2014, 02:30 PM
Any new updates or things in the works? I know you been busy with your new little guy! Cheers to a new year.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

01-06-2014, 02:39 PM

sub fucking scribed.

01-06-2014, 03:21 PM

sub fucking scribed.


01-07-2014, 09:11 AM
bleh red engine cover? its not a ferarri. german machines look best in black

I prefer black wrinkle painted valve covers also, but remembered that the Cecotto Edition E30 M3 came with red.

Of course he was Italian.

01-08-2014, 06:29 PM
I prefer black wrinkle painted valve covers also, but remembered that the Cecotto Edition E30 M3 came with red.

Of course he was Italian.

I did not know that existed! Very cool.

Any new updates or things in the works? I know you been busy with your new little guy! Cheers to a new year.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Thanks! He's a pretty good kid; eats, poops, pees, and grunts.

I’m getting geared up for the transmission’s rebuild (ba-dum-cha) along with a couple more AN fittings for the oil cooler. For the transmission I got some new synchros and a couple other internal bits on the way from BMW. Synchros are now $66 each list price, ouch. I’ll try and take the time to do a good rebuild tutorial again.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/IMG_9884_zps6fc650c8.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/IMG_9884_zps6fc650c8.jpg.html)

Out of curiosity I sized up the differences between the E21 323i getrag 245 and the E30 325i getrag 260. You can see how the 323i tranny would fit much easier.

The 245 weighed 62 pounds
The 260 weighed 74 pounds
So the Getrag 245 is 12 pounds lighter than the 260.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/f62517b1-5352-46eb-8048-541a3fffc720_zps45159113.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/f62517b1-5352-46eb-8048-541a3fffc720_zps45159113.jpg.html)

01-08-2014, 08:13 PM
Rad picture. You can see how that 12 lbs really stacks up in the Bellhousing area.

The 245 is from a 323i or a 320i? Thanks for doing the detailed write-ups. Definitely a nice change to see from the usual write-ups you see. I think i'll be ordering one of those transmission mount brackets here soon..

Hooffenstein HD
01-08-2014, 08:17 PM
The 245 is from a 323i or a 320i?

E21 320i/6, or 323i and early(up to 1984?) E30 6 cylinders from my experience anyway.

01-08-2014, 09:05 PM
http://img2.pixroute.com/i/00667/hf5yyvl8hzg8_t.jpg (http://www.pixroute.com/hf5yyvl8hzg8/IMG_9884_zps6fc650c8.jpg.html)

what's this thing?

Hooffenstein HD
01-08-2014, 09:20 PM
Looks like the shift carrier to me.

01-08-2014, 09:27 PM
It looks like the 245 is open....is the getrag 260 empty or does it still have fluids?

Thanks for the info Andrew. I'll definately think about using the e30 subframe...I'll have to take some measurements and look at the 02. But I'm definately going with the 260 for its robustness and their availability/price. (So sounds like my 02 will be e30 with 02 shell and front subframe).

01-08-2014, 09:46 PM
I'm going with the 260 because its what I have and I like that it came from an E30. Also you can run any E30 SSK assuming you run the rear carrier bearing.

Not too excited about cutting up the trans tunnel though. They both have their pros and cons.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

01-08-2014, 11:30 PM
The 260 was drained and the weights taken from two different scales.

I'll be blunt here, the only upside to using the getrag 260 is the initial cost is lower (and the 245 is trickier to find). In all other aspects that I've considered they are equal (robustness for example) or the 245 is better. It makes for a much more efficient and clean overall installation.

That being said, as I mentioned earlier there is nothing wrong in using the 260 as it will get the job done, but just as long as the person doing the work is comfortable and methodical in his fabrication.

01-10-2014, 09:02 AM
You think the 245 can handle as much power as the 260?

01-17-2014, 04:27 PM
You think the 245 can handle as much power as the 260?

I haven't done any testing to say, but I do know of a number of guys running 550hp through them without issue.

M20 Oil System

Since I'm doing a stroker engine with forged internals and other fancy bits I'll be running an oil cooler. I know this has been a source of debate between qualified forum members, and I am of the opinion it is necessary on this kind of build. In any case, I think of it as good insurance.
Original Goal:
To run a remote oil filter in conjunction with an oil cooler.

Issues and solutions:
-Remote filter mount so I didn't have to get cramped squeezing my arm past the narrower '02 frame rail, suspension bits, and tubular headers when I need to reach the oil filter. (solved by the remote filter bloc)
-Add more clearance between oiling system and the hot headers (solved by 90' Rotating Remote Filter Adapter)
-off-engine mounting provisions for the oil pressure and oil temp gauge senders (solved by the remote filter block)
-Use a thermostat for the oil cooler since this is a street car (solved by the thermostatic sandwich filter)

Running a 19 row Setrab oil cooler. Canton Remote filter adapter and mounting block, and an Earl's thermostatic sandwich filter. Also running the fancy braided fabric AN lines and fittings.

If anyone would like the parts list, just PM or email me.

Here's a rough layout I drew up to better illustrate what's going on.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/unnamed_zps303be5e6.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/unnamed_zps303be5e6.jpg.html)

Layed out

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/IMG_9933_zps9096a45d.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/IMG_9933_zps9096a45d.jpg.html)

I'll try and mount the cooler behind the front passenger side headlight, similar to the #13 car, just on the other side.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/IMG_9934_zpse8079fd5.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/IMG_9934_zpse8079fd5.jpg.html)

01-17-2014, 04:34 PM
That's a nice setup right there. Good stuff!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

01-21-2014, 02:58 PM
Nice layout of the parts.

01-21-2014, 03:06 PM
Andrew is really nice about documenting what's getting done on his car or even customers cars.

Good photos. Solid details. What's not to like? Anything new?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

01-24-2014, 04:56 PM
Andrew, great thread!
Just bought a 1980 323i, CR box, here in El Salvador.
I am planning to follow your footsteps and install the drivetrain into a '74 2002.
The K.Jet. is in bad shape and will require unnecessary expenses, and I am assuming more trouble than it is worth it.
I am looking for some DCOE manifolds and possibly a good header to start off. Might you be of help and give me some tips on sourcing these items?

Thank you.
Regards, Alberto

05-24-2014, 07:38 AM
-off-engine mounting provisions for the oil pressure and oil temp gauge senders (solved by the remote filter block)

Where in the remote filter block are you adding your temp/pressure senders? The other two NPT slots on the other side?

05-26-2014, 11:21 AM
Sorry for the lack of updates, life happens. Am gearing up for some nice updates soon though.

Where in the remote filter block are you adding your temp/pressure senders? The other two NPT slots on the other side?

Yep, you've got it.

06-24-2014, 12:33 PM
So I'm moving at a snails pace right now but finished a couple more bits, namely the brake booster support area and the pedal box.

First up was the booster pivot lever, thanks to Marshall's encouragement I drew it up in solid-works and had them spit out on a cnc lathe. Since the sleeve was much longer than the pedal sleeves, it took a little extra effort to press it in (TIP: make sure the ID of the pivot is very well cleaned prior to pressing in the sleeve, there was some persistent build up on mine that took some work with a cartridge roll to clean out). When pressing in the sleeve try and use a material softer that aluminum, a wooden dowel worked perfect for me.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal20_zps37f84584.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal20_zps37f84584.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal19_zpsb973872f.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal19_zpsb973872f.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal18_zpsc8f480f5.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal18_zpsc8f480f5.jpg.html)

To contact the inner bearing race while not binding on the outer bearing ring while under tension I ended up having a bunch of specifically sized washers zapped out of stainless (searched up and down for an off-the-shelf washer to no avail).

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal22_zps1691c4b1.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal22_zps1691c4b1.jpg.html)

Used the spacer washers on both ends of the bearings. A tiny dab of grease on the washers helped them stick to the bearings, making easier to slide the bolt through the booster support and the pivot (replaced the nla outer washers with some big jobbies from Mcmaster-carr).

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal15_zps07f3fab6.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal15_zps07f3fab6.jpg.html)

I'm using an E12 brake master which meant I can run the E30/E21 brake fluid resivour directly on top of the master. This should clean up the engine bay a bit more (guessing the fuel regulator will fit nicely in the stock fluid resivour went). Mocked it all up for giggles along with a coupe of the brake hardlines.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal10_zps6eabedb8.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal10_zps6eabedb8.jpg.html)


Next up was the pedal box. Box was powder coated black and I cad plated all the bits.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal7_zpseb367ba8.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal7_zpseb367ba8.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal6_zpsf5e291a4.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal6_zpsf5e291a4.jpg.html)

Used the billet sleeves on the pedals, this shows the spacing I used (one spacer washer between the major components). We had 3 other boxes laying around the shop and for each one the overall length between the bolt support arm and the side of the pedal box. I'm chalking it up to production tolerances. Tightened the bolt up just until it started to bind the pedals, then backed off until the pedals moved freely.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal5_zps880ef932.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal5_zps880ef932.jpg.html)

Nearly all tidied up.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal2_zps6112b350.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal2_zps6112b350.jpg.html)

Mocked everything up together and then took them apart, covered them in saran wrap, and put them in boxes until I'm ready for the.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/539be0ef-ec24-4754-b5a5-4c09398bcd10_zps9e27e38f.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/539be0ef-ec24-4754-b5a5-4c09398bcd10_zps9e27e38f.jpg.html)

In other news, I did the transmission rebuild and bell housing swap this last weekend under the helpful hand of Rob Inhout (Rids) at his amazing shop. Here's a little preview....

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140621_152209_zpsbb9c0d58.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140621_152209_zpsbb9c0d58.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/Mobile%20Uploads/26e66c9e-cf2e-4acf-ae3d-c8796d086dc1_zps0a791889.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/Mobile%20Uploads/26e66c9e-cf2e-4acf-ae3d-c8796d086dc1_zps0a791889.jpg.html)

07-14-2014, 11:24 PM
Jeff's been kind enough to lend me a bit of room in the new shop, immediately filled it with "stuff". Got electrical and air within arms reach so I feel pretty fortunate.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/IMG_1062_zps77ec63a2.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/IMG_1062_zps77ec63a2.jpg.html)

I've posted that I'd be running a 272 in the past, but after talking some numbers with our cam grinder we started with a blank semi-finished cam, used the schrick 272°/284° numbers as a starting point and ended up with a slightly different profile that should be ideal for my project.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/IMG_1064_zpsa4a723e2.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/IMG_1064_zpsa4a723e2.jpg.html)

Kind of a neat shot showing what an unfinished cam lobe looks like

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/IMG_1066_zpsae60a1d3.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/IMG_1066_zpsae60a1d3.jpg.html)

The beige beast herself has been out of commission for the last couple months as I've guiltily taken solace in the cool arms of a Honda Civic's loving AC system. What luxury.

In reality though, I managed to smoosh her front end and am using it as an excuse and go full resto on the body.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/IMG_1051_zps82e47107.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/IMG_1051_zps82e47107.jpg.html)

07-15-2014, 12:27 PM
More great work and super clean helpful pictures. Can't wait for my next 02

07-15-2014, 01:51 PM
In the words of Mr. Cash "one piece at a time" (notice the "stealth intake manifold")

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/14_zpsbfa4005a.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/14_zpsbfa4005a.jpg.html)

Nice work all around.

On the intake manifold, do you not need an isolation mount in there, where the Webers are hanging off the manifold and want to flex?

I ask because Alfas have an extra rubber isolator mount in the system. Maybe that's because it's a 4 with more vibration? Although I have seen aftermarket and race applications where it's a solid aluminum piece with rubber o-rings.


07-20-2014, 11:08 PM
Nice work all around.

On the intake manifold, do you not need an isolation mount in there, where the Webers are hanging off the manifold and want to flex?

I ask because Alfas have an extra rubber isolator mount in the system. Maybe that's because it's a 4 with more vibration? Although I have seen aftermarket and race applications where it's a solid aluminum piece with rubber o-rings.


Thanks latefan.

In regards to rubber isolator mounts, no I won't be using them. As you mentioned you'll actually find a number of factory/aftermarket weber setups that did not use them either (Aston DB5, Jags, Maserati's). Yes the 6 will be inherently smoother, but I've been involved with enough M10 dual sidedraft projects to know they are rarely needed.

The problem is that its not a matter of "if", but "when" they start to leak. And I don't really want to have to deal with tracking done air leaks when trying to tune them in the first place.

Honestly I know there's a lot of conflicting information out there on these, so I'm simply going with what I know works. Have been fortunate enough to have weber-sage Gron Perry weighing in as well.

The Dark Side of Will
07-21-2014, 05:48 AM
So I'm moving at a snails pace right now but finished a couple more bits, namely the brake booster support area and the pedal box.

First up was the booster pivot lever, thanks to Marshall's encouragement I drew it up in solid-works and had them spit out on a cnc lathe. Since the sleeve was much longer than the pedal sleeves, it took a little extra effort to press it in (TIP: make sure the ID of the pivot is very well cleaned prior to pressing in the sleeve, there was some persistent build up on mine that took some work with a cartridge roll to clean out). When pressing in the sleeve try and use a material softer that aluminum, a wooden dowel worked perfect for me.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal20_zps37f84584.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal20_zps37f84584.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal19_zpsb973872f.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal19_zpsb973872f.jpg.html)

Used the billet sleeves on the pedals, this shows the spacing I used (one spacer washer between the major components). We had 3 other boxes laying around the shop and for each one the overall length between the bolt support arm and the side of the pedal box. I'm chalking it up to production tolerances. Tightened the bolt up just until it started to bind the pedals, then backed off until the pedals moved freely.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal5_zps880ef932.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/pedalboxfinal5_zps880ef932.jpg.html)

Aluminum and stainless are not very good bushing materials, as both tend to gall badly (as if there's such a thing as galling well?)...
There are any number of bronze materials that would give a longer service life that the aluminum.

07-21-2014, 08:19 AM
Aluminum and stainless are not very good bushing materials, as both tend to gall badly (as if there's such a thing as galling well?)...
There are any number of bronze materials that would give a longer service life that the aluminum.

The aluminum and stainless are not being used as bushings, they are only spacers to transfer the load through the inner races of the bearings when the though bolt is tightened.

The Dark Side of Will
07-21-2014, 09:34 AM
Ahh, ok. Thanks. I had missed that those little parts on the ends are bearings.

07-21-2014, 11:47 AM
Can't wait for a video to hear this thing sing!

10-02-2014, 10:39 AM
Is it singin' yet?

11-19-2014, 06:38 PM
Impressive feats thus far. Let's see something happen!

11-19-2014, 10:32 PM
Oh yes, we're all in need of some news Andrew.

11-21-2014, 11:45 PM
Dang it! I've got some really good news coming in about two weeks (no, car's not running but some major steps forward finally)!

Rear axles are done, will post more on that this coming week.

Side note, Jeff's number 5 car is out from hibernation to be worked on this winter. Working on a drysump M10 with 336 hollow cam. Should give the 510's a run for their money. Will try to start a fresh thread for that car.

11-26-2014, 03:53 PM
Can't resist a nice wood steering wheel, this one's out of Sweden; a period Personal Autostrada (oem option on a couple Italian clunkers).

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/b9630031-e644-4054-a276-1b362f3bffd6_zps82685930.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/b9630031-e644-4054-a276-1b362f3bffd6_zps82685930.jpg.html)

11-26-2014, 06:27 PM
Love it. The cutouts in the spokes are pretty cool!

11-27-2014, 11:18 AM
Good stuff Andrew. Cant wait to see and maybe hear more ;)

01-20-2015, 12:45 AM
I don’t have much free time again, so this’ll be kind of jumbled together. Cylinder head rebuild is finally done! Working on another piston option that should be kind of neat (hint: involves Mahle Motorsport)!

Cylinder head rebuild (strangely this was spread out over a year-ish)

Goals: In line with everything else, going for a fun hot-rod 91octane street engine. The idea was to port-match the exhaust ports while cleaning up both the intake and exhaust bowels.

New parts list
-IE 284/272 dual-pattern new cam
-IE HD Rockers
-oem dual valve springs
-valve guides
-IE SS Intake Valves
-IE SS Exhaust Valves
-OEM Rocker Shafts
-Elring Upper Gasket Set
-rocker hardware+eccentrics
-OEM Oil sprayer bar
-OEM Spring retainers (top and bottom)
-OEM valve cover studs (with M30 acorn nuts) Intake Studs (with thin IE 11mm nuts)
-Allen-head exhaust studs w/ copper nuts
-Freeze plugs

Die Grinders
carbide bits
80 grit cartridge rolls
120 grit cartridge rolls
rubber hammer
Bearing, Seal, and Race Drivers Kit

First thing was sending the head to the machinist to have the guides punched out, head checked for cracks and warping, and lastly cleaned!

Port matching the exhaust side

Pretty straight forward. Painted the port with some trusty dykem lay-out fluid, 2)lined up a head gasket and scribed the ID with an exacto knife.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2033_zps247d2e11.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2033_zps247d2e11.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2036_zps6d27f2ec.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2036_zps6d27f2ec.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2047_zps6a05480e.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2047_zps6a05480e.jpg.html)

Started with a pretty beefy carbide bit, as long as I kept it lubed it made short work of the aluminum.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_5496_zps9bd38a8d.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_5496_zps9bd38a8d.jpg.html)

Next I wanted to clean up the intake and exhaust bowels. Mainly the casting ridges you can see here and the small edge immediately inside the short side of the port (you can feel it pretty easily when hooking your finger in there.

You can see how this was MUCH easier with the guide removed.

Casting ridges
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_5745_zps4fd61e7c.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_5745_zps4fd61e7c.jpg.html)

First pass with the carbide bit

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_5747_zps7f044e67.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_5747_zps7f044e67.jpg.html)

Stepped it up to 80 grit cartridge rolls on the end of a 6” Mandrel

Ended up with a 120 grit and went ahead and polished the combustion chambers for good measure.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/10-24-147_zps7d6fe510.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/10-24-147_zps7d6fe510.jpg.html)

Next step was sending the head back to the machinist with new guides and valves. The machinist then did a nice 3-angle valve job, punched in the new guides, and resurfaced the head.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/10-24-1421_zpsf9de4eef.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/10-24-1421_zpsf9de4eef.jpg.html)

Before dropping off at the machinist.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/10-24-1424_zpsaf428f4b.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/10-24-1424_zpsaf428f4b.jpg.html)

After picking the head up from the machinist.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_1995_zpsbd5995a0.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_1995_zpsbd5995a0.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2000_zpsc45bef7c.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2000_zpsc45bef7c.jpg.html)

From this point it was all basic reassembly work.

Valve Stem seals went back in using the little sleeves supplied in the upper gasket set to keep the valve edges from cutting into the seal. Using the OEM stem-seal tool was kind of neat, didn’t know it existed..
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2030_zps131eea6a.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2030_zps131eea6a.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2031_zpsd1ceea07.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2031_zpsd1ceea07.jpg.html)

On to the new springs, retainers and collets. Broke out the spring compressor. Compressed spring/retainer right before slipping the collets in.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2038_zps5a86ab74.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2038_zps5a86ab74.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2054_zps493cd6f9.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2054_zps493cd6f9.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2068_zpsf99f3b6e.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2068_zpsf99f3b6e.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2071_zpsad28057e.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2071_zpsad28057e.jpg.html)

Cam’s turn.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/m20s51_zpsb061f545.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/m20s51_zpsb061f545.jpg.html)

Rockers and rocker shafts were next. I could slide all of one bank on pretty quick. Pushing in the second shaft however meant that I was going to reach a point where the cam would need to be rotated for the rocker to go on.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/m20s55_zps8ac12caa.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/m20s55_zps8ac12caa.jpg.html)

Made up a handy head stand from some aluminum around the shop (in hindsight I should have moved the dowels farther forward).

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/m20s58_zps7f465078.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/m20s58_zps7f465078.jpg.html)

Kind of neat but the M20’s rocker shafts are interchangeable from intake to exhaust while those found in the M10 and M30 are not. Rotated the shafts and snapped the rocker retainer clips in place.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2118_zps33422719.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2118_zps33422719.jpg.html)

Last major step, studs, oil sprayer bar, freeze plugs, cam seal/o-ring.

When installing the seals and or freezeplugs...
1) On the OD of the seal, run a thin layer of good gasket sealer (I like Dirko).
2) On the ID of the seal, run a smear of good synthetic wheel bearing grease.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2128_zpscabfc292.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2128_zpscabfc292.jpg.html)

Already to go!

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2210_zps243d8348.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2210_zps243d8348.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2204_zps5b498d00.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2204_zps5b498d00.jpg.html)


After thinking long and hard about it I made the call to switch to throttle bodies instead of carbs. My dcoe manifold wasn’t panning out and the more measurements I took the more I realized that carbs just wouldn’t work without compromising somewhere.

Went ahead and picked up a Racehead 40mm ITB setup.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_1969_zpsa02273ba.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_1969_zpsa02273ba.jpg.html)

With the ITB’s in hand I wanted to at least replicate the look of an old Alpina setup (red stacks, grey valve cover). Sent the parts of to Nick at Rodini up in Fremont for powdercoating.

Once the bits were back from powdercoating I mocked up the new setup ….

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IrelandEngineeringM20final_zps2eacb429.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IrelandEngineeringM20final_zps2eacb429.jpg.html)

01-20-2015, 01:08 AM
Once the bits were back from powdercoating I mocked up the new setup …

That's gonna look amazing !

01-20-2015, 01:40 AM
Very clean work. Are you planning on an MS setup?

MR 325
01-20-2015, 05:21 AM
Looking good Andrew! 8)

01-20-2015, 08:21 AM
Holy shit, beautiful!

01-20-2015, 08:32 AM
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IrelandEngineeringM20final_zps2eacb429.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IrelandEngineeringM20final_zps2eacb429.jpg.html)

Very nice, Andrew !

I think it's time to update the thread title, though...

01-20-2015, 11:05 AM
HA! You mentioned you might pull the plug on the carbs. Good choice.

01-20-2015, 12:21 PM
DER E30 and Matt. Thanks, I know this project is going super slow just looking forward to finishing the motor and start stripping the car down. Matt, the new guy is working out great, thanks again.

Very clean work. Are you planning on an MS setup?

Yes, Keith (whodwho) actually built me a box when I was putting together the wasted spark system. I popped it open the other day and he had put together an entire MS2 setup in there along with x3 bip373 coildrivers already in there! I'll be adding the diyautotune fuse box as well.

Very nice, Andrew !

I think it's time to update the thread title, though...

yeeeahhh.....you're probably right. Now if I can figure out how.

HA! You mentioned you might pull the plug on the carbs. Good choice.

You kind of tipped me over the edge on that.


As a compromise, an opportunity came up for the shop to buy back a car IE apparently helped build 15 years ago. It ran the 2000 One Lap of America and was featured in Bimmer and Roundel that same year. It's a rough car (square to roundie conversion done after the rear end was crushed) but...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_21892_zps949bc1eb.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_21892_zps949bc1eb.jpg.html)

It has an M20 with a triple weber IDF setup that Jeremy put together many moons ago! I'm thinking some tall stacks through the hood with a 250testarossa-style hood scoop would be appropriately obnoxious.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2182_zps5787cfbf.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/cylinder%20head/IMG_2182_zps5787cfbf.jpg.html)

01-24-2015, 07:06 PM
Hi guys, I'm stuck on one part of this injection thing.....

Using the following info for the injector flow rate and fuel pressure formulas...
BSFC: .45
Projected flywheel hp: 230-240ish
Duty Rate: %80

A couple different calculators I came up with an average of 21lb/hr@43.5psi(3bar). Alright, no problem, now to find some....

I then found the popular yellow-top Ford injectors were rated at 19lb/hr@39.15psi.(according to ford oem specs).

After converting
x=rated injector flow x (actual fuel pressure/rated fuel pressure)

x=39.15 x 1.11
x=21.1lb/hr @ 3bar

So am I correct in thinking that the ford "19lb/hr" injectors are actually pumping out 21.1lb/hr when subjected to the 3bar M20 injection system? If so, that sounds just about perfect.

01-24-2015, 07:34 PM
Aren't S52 pink top injectors 21.5#? The Fords might be cheaper though.

01-24-2015, 07:45 PM
Aren't S52 pink top injectors 21.5#? The Fords might be cheaper though.

See that's the other thing ... the S52 pink tops are 21.5lb/hr at 3.5bar, but when you run them at 3bar then they end up being 18.3lb/hr. At least if I'm doing this right.

01-24-2015, 08:18 PM
Hi guys, I'm stuck on one part of this injection thing.....

Using the following info for the injector flow rate and fuel pressure formulas...
BSFC: .45
Projected flywheel hp: 230-240ish
Duty Rate: %80

A couple different calculators I came up with an average of 21lb/hr@43.5psi(3bar). Alright, no problem, now to find some....

I then found the popular yellow-top Ford injectors were rated at 19lb/hr@39.15psi.(according to ford oem specs).

After converting
x=rated injector flow x (actual fuel pressure/rated fuel pressure)

x=39.15 x 1.11
x=21.1lb/hr @ 3bar

So am I correct in thinking that the ford "19lb/hr" injectors are actually pumping out 21.1lb/hr when subjected to the 3bar M20 injection system? If so, that sounds just about perfect.

its a pressure squared thing so 11% more pressure only gives 5.3% more flow.

1.11 x the pressure gives 1.11^0.5 x the flow

double the pressure gives 41% more flow etc

01-24-2015, 08:33 PM
I have had no problems with the m50 injectors making over 200whp N/A. The white car has 19lb and did 181 at the wheels with ample room for more.

01-25-2015, 12:51 AM
these just popped up locally and they seemed prudent for this thread


Extremely rare (1 of 13 in the world) intake setup for M20 engine. Came with a Jagermeister M3 race car that had these removed and went turbo. It has 44IDF carbs with large venturis - this was on a high-revving M20 race engine. Would need smaller venturis for a street car.





01-25-2015, 09:53 PM
Doug and John, thanks for the help on the injector bits

To finish the injectors out then .... (credit to Digger on this)
YELLOW-TOP Injectors #19.0 @ 39.1psi (mustang application) = 20.0 @ 3b (E30 application)
PINK-TOP Injectors #21.5 @ 50.8psi (E36M3 application) = 19.9 @ 3b (E30 application)

Downforce, I saw those. Pretty crazy timing. The seller also had them listed on r3v. The same fella showing the ex-korman widebody racer.

The Dark Side of Will
01-26-2015, 07:49 AM
I have 8 Ford orange top 19# injectors in my Caddy Northstar with stock fuel pressure making 312 to the wheels. Six should have no problem at all making 225 or better.

It's actually very difficult to get accurate BSFC numbers... AND 80% is a conservative duty cycle. I've typically seen 85% used as a target.

02-25-2015, 11:55 PM
^ Thanks for the confirmation on that.

BMW 2002 Rear Axle Rebuild

With the new production CV’s finally ready to go I broke down and rebuilt an old grimy set of axles for the 2002. Below I just covered the basics.

x4 New CV joints
x4 New Rein boot kits
Zinc-plated hardware ** reused the originals, had them plated. (caps, u-washers)

x1,000 Disposable Gloves
x1,000,000 shop towels
Exacto knife
Flathead screw driver
Philips screw driver
High-temp Paint
Rubber hammer
Circlip pliers

What I started with:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/IMG_1347_zpsc831d343.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/IMG_1347_zpsc831d343.jpg.html)

1) First step was slitting the boots, taking them off, and cleaning some of the grease off.

**If you want to get a rough estimate as to the condition of your existing axles prior to disassembly take an axle, put one end on the ground and place the palm of your hand on the other end. Pivot the top CV with your palm, if it feels chunky like a bag of marbles this is not a good sign.

2) Removed the back plates gently with a flathead screw drivers, do it slow or you’ll screw them up.

3) Clear off the grease around the retaining circlip and remove it. Once removed you will be able to separate the CV from the axle. Most (but not all) 2002 axles used a bell washer behind the CV (see Toby’s note http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/61560-cv-joint-washer-gone/). Contrary to what I saw mentioned elsewhere, this washer is NOT specifically sized to the axle/cv. If your axles have it, then reuse it. If not, then don’t use it.

At this point pull off the inner cap from the CV face, again take care to not damage it.

4) With everything disassembled I cleaned/plated/painted all the bits to be used on the reassembly. From the old axles this means the shaft, the cv caps, the bell washers, and the circlips.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/IMG_1618_zps87254fe1.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/IMG_1618_zps87254fe1.jpg.html)

After cleaning and plating, ready for reassembly.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/IMG_1696_zps0bc5e290.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/IMG_1696_zps0bc5e290.jpg.html)

5) Assembly order (with minimizing mess-making in mind).

a) Slip new boots/clamps loosely onto the shaft.

b) Pack the inner side of the CV with grease and tap on the inner cap completely (use a couple old bolts to help line up the holes).

c) Using a rubber hammer gently tap the CV onto the shaft (don’t forget the bell washer if it’s the side where it came off of).

d) Once the CV is fully seated, reinstall the circlip, pack the backside with grease and tap the rear cover back on.
*This maybe obvious but be sure there is no play between the splines of the CV and shaft. If you have play, then something is going on with your shaft and you shouldn’t use it.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/IMG_1808_zps77a488ad.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/IMG_1808_zps77a488ad.jpg.html)

e) Put a bit more grease around the inner cap and then slide the boot right over. Snug the boot clamps down (take care to not don’t over-tighten or block an axle nut hole with the clamp’s worm mechanism).

f) Repeat 4 more times!
**During assembly a good trick is to use a very thin smear of Dirko (or your preferred brand) gasket sealer on the sealing surfaces to prevent grease leaks (rear cap, front cap face, boot mating surfaces).

All ready to go .... in a bag ... in a box .... until I'm ready for them.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/turbonium240/personal%20pics/IMG_1812_zpsc4e46b56.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/turbonium240/media/personal%20pics/IMG_1812_zpsc4e46b56.jpg.html)