APEX | 17" 4-Lug ARC-8 Pre Group-Buy Discussion Thread

[Jonnybravo]

Well this sucks...

[ian e30 318is]

I'm pretty bummed that these are not coming to fruition. Why not just offer the single option of 17x8.5 et20 and keep the payment phase open for another week? Like it was said before, people will adapt to the final option that is put on the table. A decision just needs to be made by Apex for the final specs.

[APEX Race Parts]

The proposed concave profile and wider wheel width were idea's brewed from within the community. Many enthusiasts reciprocated, however when it came down to obtaining valuable feedback from said interested parties in regards to desired offsets, we experienced radio silence. The beauty of the Group Buy platform is that we can cultivate organic idea's from the community, and with proper demand we can bring these products to market at discounted prices. Needless to say, this can be an extremely valuable tool within a niche community where quality product choices are scarce. None of this works if the demand does not support our production minimums, or if the community is in disarray over the final specifications of said product. A proposed product could have hundreds of enthusiasts interested in introductory phases of a Group Buy, but if only a fraction of these interested enthusiasts choose to move forward with the purchase, it is simply validation that their was not enough demand for this product to exist within this corner of the market.

We agree that final offsets should have been a mandatory criteria prior to entering into an official payment phase, and will implement this stipulation going forward. We treat every Group Buy, especially those that involve introducing a completely new sku, as a learning experience. We appreciate all of the feedback, and hope that the "tried and true" profile 1 face Group Buy, opening on 8/18 will be a success.

- Ryan

[FredK]

There were a lot of choices only because there were so many opinions in this thread.

For as many people that wanted direct fitment wide wheels that would absolutely REQUIRE panel modification on their cars, there were those who didn't and were willing to use spacers. Conversely, the people who didn't mind spacers were shot down by those who were adamant that they would rather suck on a cactus than run spacers. Then there were people who wanted 9+ wide wheels. Maybe a 9.25" wheel with rainbow sparkle finish and ghost flames and dick logo'd centercaps.

As a manufacturer, how do you sort through this?

Let money talk and bullshit walk.

[supermansocks95]

Exactly... If the flat faces actually make it, but don't get the discount I want, I'll just buy parts for the car and buy a set at reg. price a couple years or so ahead if possible. I'll have to wait a year or so to get tires regardless...

[FLG]

I understand they dont want to make wheels that won't sell but if they just dropped the money into making em you'd clearly have 50+ people buy them and I'm positive over the next few months more sets would get sold. Myself included.

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[supermansocks95]

Yeah, I'm starting to lose my need for the wheels...

[FLG]

No idea but this dragged out for far too long, now with a trip coming up next month I'm not longer in a position to drop 1k on wheels.

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[cleanasse30]

At this point the concave has only 52 pledges so you can basically kiss the concave design goodbye. I think APEX dropped the ball on the concave wheel, which is a shame because it would have been an awesome looking wheel. APEX, as a company you should have made a choice much earlier in the process in regards to a final size and offset. IMO you fragmented the concave design by giving people too many choices. People are adaptable and will make things work for their needs even its it doesn't meet 100% of their criteria.

So the real question is, will there be enough interest in the flat faces?

[Major]

The only thing I'll say about getting bad feedback is that the community trusts your judgement on what fitment and offset best suits the E30, your flat wheels are carefully considered and pretty much perfect for the E30. We just wanted concave equivalents that don't compromise elsewhere. We probably won't all agree on offsets, but if you told us that this is what you're doing, some will be vocal, but most will be happy.

[PaintPro21]

Update: Posted to site

The 17x8.5" wheel will produced with a 20mm offset.

We still cannot determine the final offset for the 17x9" wheel. Only a few members have given us feedback on the 17x9" wheel and requests are for different extremes. The 9" wheel was the communities idea, and it's a specialty fitment. We cannot lock down a final fitment without feedback as we're still getting requests for a wide range from only a few people.

You may still join the group buy for 9" wheels without a final offset confirmed. We'll take final feedback from those signed up and they will determine the final offset within 1-3 days of the deal closing. If anyone signed up for that size doesn't like the final offset proposed then they can drop out of the deal without being charged. The authorization for the deposit amount will simply be voided.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you pay with PayPal they are charging you. I tried to sign up for two sets of 17x9 wheels but it was charging me now, not later. I don't like paying for a wheel that might not be made...

You don't get charged. When you use either Paypal or a credit card, you are only authorized for the $200 deposit amount per set. We only capture the deposit if the deal goes through. That's calculated a few days after the close. If a deal is not going forward, then all authorizations are voided within a few days.

Can't say I'm surprised at the response guys. You're asking us to pledge on an unknown. We don't know how it'll fit, whether it'll clear BBK's, if they'll need spacers, heavy fender work, nudda. You have the feedback from the interest phase, surely you can settle on offsets and declare what you're going to make, so people can pledge on something solid, and know what they'll need for fitment?

Pick the offsets now based on the feedback you already have, the onus was on us to give you as much information about our needs as possible during the first phase. If people don't like your final decision, I suspect they'll default to the flat wheel.

We've confirmed the 17x8.5" wheel would be ET20. We can't pick an offset for the 9" wheel.

Only 3 people submitted fitment feedback during the feeler phase, of the 196 wheels that were signed up for. We were expecting to come to a conclusion at the end of the feeler phase, but almost no one answered our requests. Only 9 people responded to our last email request, and a number of those responses did not include fitment feedback.

We provided BBK clearance info in this thread which I've posted again below because it's from a few pages back. That should have been the info needed to determine offset needs for BBK clearance for those willing to run spacers, or those unwilling to run spacers.

UUC's 11.75" kit would require a 4mm spacer to have at least 2-3mm of clearance to the spokes with a concave 17x8.5" ET20 wheel. Lee's Massive 280x22mm Dynapro kit would require a 5mm spacer. Lee's 300x22mm Superlite kit would require a 13.5mm spacer.

With a 17x9" ET25 wheel those same kits would require a 3mm, 4mm, and 12.5mm spacer respectively, in order to have 2-3mm of spoke clearance.

You can take those spacer numbers and determine final spacer-free offsets, which is basically 17x8.5" ET15 and 17x9" ET20 respectively (ignoring the biggest kit). I believe 17x9" ET20 would still hit the strut, so it would need an even lower offset similar to the ones mentioned previously.

Both wheels can be produced in offsets that would clear BBK's but they're aggressive...

[Fidhle007]

If you pay with PayPal they are charging you. I tried to sign up for two sets of 17x9 wheels but it was charging me now, not later. I don't like paying for a wheel that might not be made...

[supermansocks95]

If I can't get the $200 off on the flat faces, then I'll probably just buy parts for the brick instead of buying it new shoes.

[Beej '86 325es]

I concur with Major. I'm curious about the details of the concave, but I have specific requirements, that will likely lead me to default to the flat face.


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[Major]

Can't say I'm surprised at the response guys. You're asking us to pledge on an unknown. We don't know how it'll fit, whether it'll clear BBK's, if they'll need spacers, heavy fender work, nudda. You have the feedback from the interest phase, surely you can settle on offsets and declare what you're going to make, so people can pledge on something solid, and know what they'll need for fitment?

Pick the offsets now based on the feedback you already have, the onus was on us to give you as much information about our needs as possible during the first phase. If people don't like your final decision, I suspect they'll default to the flat wheel.