Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

N52 Swap Discussion

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • cwlo
    replied
    My build is certainly not the definitive way of doing things, so I encourage other approaches. An aluminum plate bolted to the block with an isolated ring to bolt the steel arm could be made to work:


    https://www.cachassisworks.com/cac_press_5914-XXX.html


    Only thing is that the engine arm on passenger side is more in tension than compression, as the mounting is almost directly horizontal to the subframe attachment.



    The main dme harness is comprised of separate ones that just slide in to the connector. Start with the harness you get, and then you can swap one or two of the smaller ones as needed. I used a lot of X3 stuff, because you can get it dirt cheap on ebay if you are patient and bid low....I used part of the harness, brake booster, rear muffler, ektp.


    ForcedFirebird said he was going to start this swap.....curious to see if he's made any headway.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bored
    replied
    Originally posted by cwlo View Post
    Regarding engine wiring harness, half of the e90 harness is too short to reach the glovebox. I used that part from an X3. ( I believe its the section that goes to the other side of the engine for alternator, throttle, maf, etc..)


    Engine mounts: Issue here is that it should really be aluminum, since it mounts onto the magnesium block. My plan was to modify the z4 arms (which I did...approx 1"), and then fabricate new arms at a later date. I purchased some 1/2 or 3/8" alum plate to mount to the engine, and then thinner gauge for the rest, but I was concerned that the strength of the differing thickness in aluminum might have strength issues regarding weld penetration. I have a tig welder, and am competent, but not expert by any means. Anyway, The z4 arms are working well....I added additional gussets when I modified them, and they have given me no problems with now 6 or more autocrosses completed. Don't forget the engine is pretty darn light.


    Regarding dyno, I know hovering is itching for one, but it should not be any different from the other n52 dyno's with N54 intake and milv. I had an m54 in this car before the n52, and while the M54 was similar down low, the N52 comes alive above 4500rpm and screams up top continuing to build power. Very similar to an s54. I just changed diffs from a 3.25 to 3.46 and it is a perfect combo for the engine's desire to play in the upper rpm band.
    CWLO,

    Is it two separate harnesses that you're talking about? Just wondering how much we could mix and match before we need to dice and splice.

    Couldn't a work-around for the corrosion be aluminum plates to sandwich between the steel arm, and the engine block? Or some sort of sleeve/insert? A bolt through design, essentially aluminum washers? This way we can have the strength of the steel and avoid the corrosion issues associated with the magnesium-steel contact?

    Just spitballing there, only seen the parts on realoem so... I could be completely off base with my ideas.

    The Dark Side of Will
    Don't forget that if you weld 6061-T6 aluminum, the HAZ is annealed. The whole part needs to be solutionized and then re-aged to achieve T6 strength. If you have access to a heat treating oven, that's not hard with a piece the size of an engine mount arm, but does need to be done.
    Hey, another VA member!

    Is that a common enough procedure to be able to find local shops to have this process?

    Leave a comment:


  • The Dark Side of Will
    replied
    Don't forget that if you weld 6061-T6 aluminum, the HAZ is annealed. The whole part needs to be solutionized and then re-aged to achieve T6 strength. If you have access to a heat treating oven, that's not hard with a piece the size of an engine mount arm, but does need to be done.

    Leave a comment:


  • cwlo
    replied
    Regarding engine wiring harness, half of the e90 harness is too short to reach the glovebox. I used that part from an X3. ( I believe its the section that goes to the other side of the engine for alternator, throttle, maf, etc..)


    Engine mounts: Issue here is that it should really be aluminum, since it mounts onto the magnesium block. My plan was to modify the z4 arms (which I did...approx 1"), and then fabricate new arms at a later date. I purchased some 1/2 or 3/8" alum plate to mount to the engine, and then thinner gauge for the rest, but I was concerned that the strength of the differing thickness in aluminum might have strength issues regarding weld penetration. I have a tig welder, and am competent, but not expert by any means. Anyway, The z4 arms are working well....I added additional gussets when I modified them, and they have given me no problems with now 6 or more autocrosses completed. Don't forget the engine is pretty darn light.


    Regarding dyno, I know hovering is itching for one, but it should not be any different from the other n52 dyno's with N54 intake and milv. I had an m54 in this car before the n52, and while the M54 was similar down low, the N52 comes alive above 4500rpm and screams up top continuing to build power. Very similar to an s54. I just changed diffs from a 3.25 to 3.46 and it is a perfect combo for the engine's desire to play in the upper rpm band.

    Leave a comment:


  • Motheye99
    replied
    Originally posted by hoveringuy View Post
    He has an N54 manifold, among other things. A strong Dyno in an e30 would certainly motivate me to push this swap and upgrade my 250whp M54.
    Do you have a thread for that motor? I'm getting ready to do my own m54 swap and I'd really like to see what made 250whp.

    Leave a comment:


  • hoveringuy
    replied
    He has an N54 manifold, among other things. A strong Dyno in an e30 would certainly motivate me to push this swap and upgrade my 250whp M54.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bored
    replied
    Originally posted by hoveringuy View Post
    I'm still hoping CWLO gets his car to the Dyno. <hint>
    Any particular reason you're looking for CWLO to get his car dyno'd? If its an N52B30, output should be between 215 bhp to 268 bhp assuming its mostly stock. I'm sure a manifold swap, header changes, tune, as well as potential MILV inclusion could boost the numbers appreciably.

    Is there anything in particular that sets his apart?

    I haven't followed in detail if he coupled it to non-n52 transmission or differential which would potentially show more parasitic drag.

    But this is just me bumping it. ;]

    Leave a comment:


  • hoveringuy
    replied
    I'm still hoping CWLO gets his car to the Dyno. <hint>

    Leave a comment:


  • Bored
    replied
    I don't know if the E60 harness is required. the E90 is a lot bigger than the E30, and the DME is already on the right side - I think it reaches without modifying it?

    the DME doesn't need to be from a Z4/X3. it doesn't matter what it is from at all really - all of that will be overwritten with the swap flash anyway. MSV70 is still more ideal for swap flashes since I have 99.9% of it mapped.
    Nando: Never thought it would be required, its just another option... plus I wasn't sure as to length requirements. Just more information, albeit probably less useful information, to file away. Might help someone's swap if they have interesting requirements/parts.

    Gotcha, MSV70 is preferred for swap flashes. It interfaces with the CAN boards too... Have you been able to get the E30 dash to mate-up/display what the new ECU relays? Or would one need to get a new dash/display?

    Finally someone replied so I can type again... CWLO's install uses the z4 arms, and they are off by what sounded like 2" (too forward I think?). There is no factory engine arm that positions the block correctly, because the "block side" of the engine arms has changed from all of the interchangeable e36 and m5x arms. There are cars that have had both the M5x and N52 engine installed from factory, but they're the cars which you'd need to source alternate arms to use as a donor (that is, if you take an M54 from a Z4, you need to find arms from an E36 to locate the block in your e30. Since the N52 offered in the Z4 is "only" in cars with the motor mounts in the wrong place for the e30, something needs to be fabricated).

    I believe CWLO solved this by cutting the Z4 arms, respositioning them, and re-welding. I don't have a lot of confidence in this as a long term solution for the group for a few reasons. It's not particularly reproducible, I don't love the idea of welding the optimized/gusseted/webbed design of the arm, and I don't love the idea of (myself, certainly) welding a cast aluminum piece.

    My goal for the engine and trans mounts is to base the location front-to-back on the shifter position, expecting that this will give me firewall and radiator clearance. I have a friend with an N52 328i to give me a good reference for centerline and longitudinal rotation, and then I'm expecting to have to build my own arms out of plate. Ideally I'll do this with enough competence that my pieces could be re-cut and assembled to locate any N52 in any e30?

    I'm expecting to give up on power brakes and retain ABS
    Hubcapboy, my apologies on thinking the Z4 mounts would be plug and play. Definitely appreciate you confirming for me that they do not work... Your menthodology for locating the engine and transmission sounds solid to me, and presents the ability to use already existing parts(shifters and shift linkages), plus that'd be a nasty part that I wouldn't want to deal with.

    I'm with you that welding and resectioning OEM arms is not the best solution... If its not plug and play, not worth messing with them. Complete fabrication to allow use of OEM/aftermarket BMW mounts would be much better as far as engine/trans placement and reproduceability.

    If you use the N54 intake manifold chances are stronger that you could keep power brakes... much smaller manifold, and with minor clearancing/adjustment, can mate up much better than the simple bolt-up suggests.

    Definitely looking forward to how you work this set-up. I'm in the process of amassing funds, and knowledge so that I can hopefully get a swap car working in a matter of weeks/months, rather than year time frames...

    It's nice that I'm relatively close to Kassel tuning, I picked their brains on a few things the other day.

    Also;

    What is this about an n52 exhaust cam? Is someone developing someone or are we looking at a regrind?

    I remember that RiotRacing was doing some N52 cams and then... well... it didn't end so well when it sounds like they did an exhaust grind on the intake and an intake grind on the exhaust and not going with the customers cam centerlines... but then again I'm not sure/don't know the whole story.

    Leave a comment:


  • hubcapboy
    replied
    Finally someone replied so I can type again... CWLO's install uses the z4 arms, and they are off by what sounded like 2" (too forward I think?). There is no factory engine arm that positions the block correctly, because the "block side" of the engine arms has changed from all of the interchangeable e36 and m5x arms. There are cars that have had both the M5x and N52 engine installed from factory, but they're the cars which you'd need to source alternate arms to use as a donor (that is, if you take an M54 from a Z4, you need to find arms from an E36 to locate the block in your e30. Since the N52 offered in the Z4 is "only" in cars with the motor mounts in the wrong place for the e30, something needs to be fabricated).

    I believe CWLO solved this by cutting the Z4 arms, respositioning them, and re-welding. I don't have a lot of confidence in this as a long term solution for the group for a few reasons. It's not particularly reproducible, I don't love the idea of welding the optimized/gusseted/webbed design of the arm, and I don't love the idea of (myself, certainly) welding a cast aluminum piece.

    My goal for the engine and trans mounts is to base the location front-to-back on the shifter position, expecting that this will give me firewall and radiator clearance. I have a friend with an N52 328i to give me a good reference for centerline and longitudinal rotation, and then I'm expecting to have to build my own arms out of plate. Ideally I'll do this with enough competence that my pieces could be re-cut and assembled to locate any N52 in any e30?

    I'm expecting to give up on power brakes and retain ABS

    Leave a comment:


  • nando
    replied
    I don't know if the E60 harness is required. the E90 is a lot bigger than the E30, and the DME is already on the right side - I think it reaches without modifying it?

    the DME doesn't need to be from a Z4/X3. it doesn't matter what it is from at all really - all of that will be overwritten with the swap flash anyway. MSV70 is still more ideal for swap flashes since I have 99.9% of it mapped.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bored
    replied
    Originally posted by hubcapboy View Post
    Lots of pictures tonight.
    [IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/4f34a47b59e22ee007a468140b53f7b0.jpg[/IMG]
    The not-a-sump bolted right up to the bottom of the real engine. No surprises there.
    [IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/bb4e38b2ddbafd9cdc907e9ee8558342.jpg[/IMG]
    Starting to wonder at this point if this was really the right engine, and wondering if I should have looked a little harder to see if the core support really didn’t unbolt.
    [IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/53e8fc290261288de9842f7194a9edd9.jpg[/IMG]
    The not-a-sump doing its job stopping me from bashing the oil pump into the paintwork.
    [IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/12d20b51fa3651941596ccd12fe6612e.jpg[/IMG]
    I had to unmount the water pump for clearance. I don’t think I would have had to if I’d pulled the wiring tray from the firewall, but I was up against that at the rear. You can see my attempt to bend the flange on the core support to buy another half inch.
    [IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/3d40544fa1e581b2d10123f985fdf293.jpg[/IMG]
    IN-stalled. This is sitting on a piece of 3/4 ply on the crossmember and wedged in place with blocks either side, with another block under the trans. Inches out of place, but it felt solid enough to unbolt the lift for the now.
    [IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/117bb4f20f7240732054cd8a025b12bf.jpg[/IMG]
    Definitely sitting too high as the hood is fouling the oil filter cap.
    [IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/6ee8e39d48df55ac6fc1ae90b1fbe764.jpg[/IMG]
    The good news is there’s a ton of sump room under here as expected.
    [IMG]hxxps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190330/b0f7781c0435bc59c5208b578426ee10.jpg[/IMG]
    Not a very helpful shot, just showing that I can go down about another inch before starting to think about clearance to the steering rack.

    Next time I’m out here I’ll have the engine hanging from the beam lift so the crane will be out of the way. I think the first job will be getting everything straight enough to build a trans mount. Then maybe sit in it and make engine noises?



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Is there any chance you'd be able to mock the engine up using Z4 arms and some OEM engine mount bushings by chance? Or, what are your engine arm plans?

    Your not-oilpan definitely has give hope to the rest of us without a modified subframe.

    I'm also looking to get one of these cars fitted with an N52 as well.

    E30+Z4 Arms+ (unknown) trans support + custom pan= workable car... right?

    I'd be much more active in figuring this out first hand if I had space to have cars, but my current situation (apartment and no garage, outdoor only parking, etc...) precludes me from doing this.

    To help the current pieces of the puzzle:

    E60 (525) harness is 4-5" longer and may help out any routing issues encountered in this swap.

    The 944 master cylinder(or was it booster?) is said to have close to stock feel while providing more clearance, but the shop I was talking to hadn't directly done one of these swaps.

    Heard good things about the e90 brake booster/master cylinder, and the... e60? Heard it clocks the line in a more conducive to fitment routing.

    Is the Z4/X3 DME still ideal, or is there something else we should be looking at? I'd like to start gathering the small parts to make this swap go.

    Leave a comment:


  • hubcapboy
    replied
    Hahahaha.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • nando
    replied
    My N52 has been on an engine stand for 3 years. how does that make you feel? lol

    Leave a comment:


  • hubcapboy
    replied
    Lol if everyone in the n52 swap thread could stop talking about how their cars don’t run that’d be great :) :)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X