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N52 Swap Discussion

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  • nick496
    replied
    Cheers guys. Considering the swap myself, and trying to figure out if I can keep Power Steering, Brake booster (though not ABS), and AC while using the 3 stage intake.
    Made a little more complex on my end as I'm down on the other side of the world with RHD, so headers are a bit more of a pain.
    Hopefully fairly achievable.

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  • nando
    replied
    Oh, I forgot a couple more!

    Power Steering - I'd like to keep it, but I think I could live without it. On the ix, I'd take a faster ratio rack over PS any day (and there are realistic options), but both would be a holy grail of sorts. Eliminating it would obviously be simpler and lighter. I could go either way.

    Gauges/diagnostics - the E30 has at the same time advanced diagnostics (for even the 1990s) and is also very primative. I'd like to at least keep what it already has. I could honestly live without a coolant gage - it works fine on the E90, and the way these are programmed would make an analog gage mostly useless anyway. But I'd love to keep the oil level indicator on the check panel functional, for one. The MPG gage should be pretty easy (I already have the convertor board).

    A working OBD2 port is definitely a requirement, but that is also pretty trivial IMO. And the diagnostics on the N52 are generations above what you get with any stock E30.
    Last edited by nando; 08-01-2020, 07:46 PM.

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  • nando
    replied
    It's funny how different some of our goals are. I think that's totally fine, and probably helps in some ways, while making it more confusing to others.

    So, I'll just state my own goals here for my swap plans:

    ABS/boosted brakes is a must - having daily driven manual drum brake cars from the 1960s with big V8s - yeah, no thanks on the non-boosted brakes and no ABS. The X3 booster seems like a great choice. I'll do whatever that takes to keep boosted brakes and ABS.

    3-stage vs N54 manifold - well, I still can't get over the sound of the E46 M3 CSL. And I see the N52 as an evolution/brother to the S54. The 3 stage likely means I can't run a brake booster, the N54 manifold has a lot of compromises IMO (although it's dirt cheap, bolts up, and is proven). So I'm going my own way with retrofitted S54 throttles. I believe they will suit, even if they're slightly too big. And the sound should be epic, plus I retain safety backups that a hacked up manifold doesn't.

    A/C - I fully recognize A/C is a must in many parts of the US. I could never live in Arizona or Georgia (I've spent time in both). But let's be real - it's 75 degrees in my house right now and I think it's hot. Some of you guys would probably be turning on the heater. A/C is just not a requirement where I live - it's a luxury, and one I don't mind compromising to have what I really want (300bhp, 8k redline, less weight, CSL sounds).

    edit: I forgot #1 - I have an ix, so I want to keep AWD. That complicates the oil pan and transmission - one of which is fully solved..
    Last edited by nando; 08-01-2020, 07:50 PM.

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  • hubcapboy
    replied
    I mentioned it somewhere back. I’m planning on abandoning the power booster and retaining ABS. I don’t like the idea of a single circuit brake system on the street (having blown a front brake hose on my truck in the past) so I expect to do this with a balance bar, cylinders and pedal box with the reservoirs under the hood.

    I’ll take a look at booster clearance. If I get lucky and something fits then great. Once I added the cost of a new e30 master cylinder to a booster setup the separate cylinders started to look affordable.

    I’m definitely keeping the 3-stage.

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  • nick496
    replied
    Hey hubcapboy, you've done lots of photos of the exhaust side, but just curious about how the intake side clears along with the brake booster.
    I might have skipped over the thread, but what is your plan there? 3 Stage intake with E90 booster?

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  • Caperix
    replied
    The e70 setup uses a different tensioner with a upper & lower pulleys. I'm having trouble finding a good shareable image, but this gives you an idea. https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...t-routing.html
    I am leaning towards the n52 for my wife's e30 when the n20, or more likely when the 4hp24 fails. She wants to keep it auto, but a dct will bolt up to the n52, so that would be a compromise. Even if it brings its own problems.

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  • nando
    replied
    Interesting. I wonder what belt they use for the main pulleys - I'm not planning on using it, so I was trying to figure out another way to route the belts properly. Some guys just put on a shorter belt, but the angle the tensioner is at doesn't really inspire confidence it won't slip IMO.

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  • Caperix
    replied
    With the front sump design I think the wings like the moroso pan would be best as you could get the best ground clearance without loosing capacity. The boxes shape may be easier to fabricate as well.
    Back to the ac compressor, n52 e70's use a separate belt for the compressor like the m54 cars.

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  • nando
    replied
    The M10 and S14 are closely related. the S14 is basically just a hopped up M10 with a 16v head. In fact, the head bolts onto the M10 block IIRC.

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  • hoveringuy
    replied
    Bimerworld talks about "...as well as an alternate oil pump pickup." Does that mean one or the other or BOTH front and rear pickups? Can dual pickups work on a stock pump?

    I love that Moroso S14 pan and I hope that's your guiding light. Yours will obviously made of steel, which is easier to fabricate and will hopefully be more bash resistant. I like shallow, and I suspect they have some oil control gadgets in that pan like trap doors and such.

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  • hubcapboy
    replied
    OK.

    Two oil pan data points for people to think about. There are two examples of fabricated oil pans for BMW inline motors that I've found. One happens to be for our engine:

    https://www.bimmerworld.com/Engine/E...-Assembly.html

    It's not cheap, it doesn't fit the e30 chassis (because it's rear sump) but it looks like a boxed out pan built off a thick flange with a larger capacity sump. If anyone can track down a photo of this pan from above we might learn something else, but I just thought it was interesting that 50% of the aftermarket fabricated pans for BMW that I can find are for this engine... honestly that speaks to the effectiveness of the original BMW designs and capacities (usually with some baffling installed) and means there probably isn't much to improve on if we stick close to the original pan shapes for front sump cars.

    There is an example of a front-sump performance pan for the M10/S14:

    http://the320i.blogspot.com/2011/10/...g-oil-pan.html

    https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/to...my-s14-engine/

    This is interesting for a few reasons... 1. I had no idea the M10 and S14 were the same flange. That's just surprising. Are they the same factory pan? If so, further evidence that BMW didn't see a need to come up with something special to track the engine. 2. The second link mentions that the pan is fabricated by Moroso (sold by VAC)... that's not insignificant because VAC makes a TON of race goodies, and Moroso makes a TON of pans. If there's an innovation or improvement that worth making, it's probably going to be incorporated here, and I don't see much that beyond what I'd expected... a tray to tuck under the factory windage tray to drain to a sump, a boxed sump with wings to make volume... and some pieces to mate the two together.

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  • hubcapboy
    replied
    Next update is oil pan. I swear. I’m done with AC (for now).

    I won’t even work on wiring until I have a pan update. I promise.

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  • hoveringuy
    replied
    AC isn't going to lubricate your engine. How's the oil pan??

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  • nando
    replied
    I bet you can swap pulleys. The only thing modern BMW loves more than cheap plastic parts, are cheap plastic parts that are interchangeable on multiple models.

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  • hubcapboy
    replied
    I said last AC post!

    Caperix almost ruined my surprise backup plan. The m54 compressor definitely looks like is a similar mount, but it’s driven off a secondary belt on that motor... so the pulley is narrower/fewer ribs.

    but the compressor from and m73 looks promising...

    http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/244196
    Last edited by hubcapboy; 07-28-2020, 06:58 PM.

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