N52 Swap Discussion

[MWC]

There are only 2 reasons to have the "big" crossover pipe and they don't involve the thermostat. 1) connect the expansion tank to the system from drivers side 2) heater core return. If you don't have a heater core you could certainly mount the reservoir on the pax side and eliminate that pipe.

The Mickey Mouse hose you're talking about flows parallel to the radiator, bypasses the thermostat to ensure that some coolant is still flowing when the thermostat is fully closed, when the motor is warming up. Without a thermostat it would be redundant and you could block Mickey. Biggest downside to eliminating the thermostat, IMO, is it would take longer to warm-up. It may even over-cool the motor; the pump and thermostat kinda work together to balance cooling.

Fook when I said the crossover pipe I meant the mickey mouse hose. It's been a while since I read through the whole thread and I forgot about the pipe you made that crosses over to the driver's side.

I wouldn't eliminate the thermostat for a street car, but in this case the car will basically only spend time on the race track and I'm not worried about it over cooling. It eliminates a failure point and should make the hoses easier to route too.

My motor came from an X3 and thus has the oil cooler. It has a hose that comes down and T's into the metal pipe between the water pump outlet and the block. That T has a very small T off of it as well and I have no idea what it's for. I'm guessing the expansion tank? but it's downstream of the water pump. I always thought expansion tanks were plumbed in parallel to the radiator. I feel like I'm losing it lol. My friend has an X3 3.0si and I'm going to see if I can have a look at it to figure out what's going on.

[hoveringuy]

These guys: https://www.tecomotive.com/en/products/tinycwa.html were able to confirm that the Pierburg pumps can operate via BSD or as a normal PWM. Only the continental pumps are BSD only.

I think for my build I'm going to eliminate the thermostat all together. This will allow me to eliminate the hose that runs across the front of the engine entirely and connect the water pump directly to the radiator outlet. Only thing left to figure out is where to incorporate an expansion tank.

There are only 2 reasons to have the "big" crossover pipe and they don't involve the thermostat. 1) connect the expansion tank to the system from drivers side 2) heater core return. If you don't have a heater core you could certainly mount the reservoir on the pax side and eliminate that pipe.

The Mickey Mouse hose you're talking about flows parallel to the radiator, bypasses the thermostat to ensure that some coolant is still flowing when the thermostat is fully closed, when the motor is warming up. Without a thermostat it would be redundant and you could block Mickey. Biggest downside to eliminating the thermostat, IMO, is it would take longer to warm-up. It may even over-cool the motor; the pump and thermostat kinda work together to balance cooling.

[MWC]

These guys: https://www.tecomotive.com/en/products/tinycwa.html were able to confirm that the Pierburg pumps can operate via BSD or as a normal PWM. Only the continental pumps are BSD only.

I think for my build I'm going to eliminate the thermostat all together. This will allow me to eliminate the hose that runs across the front of the engine entirely and connect the water pump directly to the radiator outlet. Only thing left to figure out is where to incorporate an expansion tank.

[hoveringuy]

Even if it is BSD, it probably still works as PWM. BSD just the internal way of controlling and communicating speed?

I'll be getting a new pump in a month or so, could play with the old one

[MWC]

I'm pretty sure it is BSD. N54 pumps are similar, just higher output (and ironically, made of plastic).

Yes and the N54 ones are known to fail for that reason lol.

This really blows that they're BSD. I don't think it's going to be possible for me to run it as the standalones only have normal PWM outputs. I wonder if the CWA200s right from pierburg are different. This is the last hardware issue I've yet to nail down.

[nando]

I'm pretty sure it is BSD. N54 pumps are similar, just higher output (and ironically, made of plastic).

[MWC]

No BSD on these, just PWM.

Ok so they are different than the units used on the N54? Those are BSD correct? I am reading so much conflicting information on these things and I really don't want to engineer all of the coolant lines only to have to do it over again if the stock pump isn't PWM.

[ralle30]

If you're looking for ideas on how to adapt a prius-powered column, this guy did a bit of fabrication to put it on the engine side of the firewall (of course, he's got tons of empty space in a huge engine compartment)
Add Power Steering To Any Car - YouTube

[hoveringuy]

Does anyone here know if the water pumps on these engines use BMWs BSD protocol? Can they be controlled with a regular PWM signal like the CWA 400 pumps on the later F series cars?

No BSD on these, just PWM.

[MWC]

Does anyone here know if the water pumps on these engines use BMWs BSD protocol? Can they be controlled with a regular PWM signal like the CWA 400 pumps on the later F series cars?

[Cdmef]

Wow I’ve read through this whole thread, so much good info in here! I’m set on an n52 swap into my e36 and this has been the most in depth tread I’ve found on the electrical end of things seeing as e30 and e36 are very similar in that respect. My question is to nando, would you be able to do a tune if I sent you an ecu? I am looking to do basically the same setup as hoveringguy with n54 intake. Or conversely point me in the direction of someone who would be able to set up a reliable tune. I don’t need every possible hp so I’m hoping to avoid dropping $1500 on a dyno haha! I’m in Canada btw so if you’re aware of someone up here who could accomplish this lmk. Again, so much amazing work has gone into this to enable more people to do this swap!

[Caperix]

There is a utv unit that silver mine motors uses in a kit for s30 nissans. It won't be as cheap as a junkyard electric rack but it is very small with a remote module.

[jbontke]

Right, Belgium I think. He's using the EPS from a European car, forget which one.

The Prius one looks good because it operates completely in fail-safe mode and the ECU is remote mounted. It looks like the motor fits right above the pedals.

There are also the GM version in the Vue and such. They have the ECU integrated which is nice, but also makes it bulkier and more difficult to fit, and they also have a Vss speed signal that dials-back assist with speed which would be nice.

Finally, there are the MR2 hyrdro-electrical units which lets you use the hydraulic rack, but they draw a lot more current and I'm not sure how well they go to idle when there's no demand. I've seen a lot of people say they run at full speed all the time which would be annoying.

An install kit for a Prius EPS would be money!

The only belt-driven accessory left on the N52 would be the alternator and we could probably find a motor-driven alternator....

That is the guy.

Since there are a million prius... (priui?) I think they would be an easy source. I work with programming hardware, so I thing using an existing speed signal to turn off or possibly turn down the amount of assist is possible. I am headed to the junk yard this weekend, hopefully I can find what I need to get started.

[hoveringuy]

I have been toying with the idea of this. I need to go and get a rack and see if I can make a kit. There is a guy that makes one already, but its $$$$. I think I can make it much cheaper.

Right, Belgium I think. He's using the EPS from a European car, forget which one.

The Prius one looks good because it operates completely in fail-safe mode and the ECU is remote mounted. It looks like the motor fits right above the pedals.

There are also the GM version in the Vue and such. They have the ECU integrated which is nice, but also makes it bulkier and more difficult to fit, and they also have a Vss speed signal that dials-back assist with speed which would be nice.

Finally, there are the MR2 hyrdro-electrical units which lets you use the hydraulic rack, but they draw a lot more current and I'm not sure how well they go to idle when there's no demand. I've seen a lot of people say they run at full speed all the time which would be annoying.

An install kit for a Prius EPS would be money!

The only belt-driven accessory left on the N52 would be the alternator and we could probably find a motor-driven alternator....

[jbontke]

I need to order a Prius unit to play with it. They work in basically anything and are completely self-contained, a lot of hot rodders use them.

I have been toying with the idea of this. I need to go and get a rack and see if I can make a kit. There is a guy that makes one already, but its $$$$. I think I can make it much cheaper.