OBDI or OBDII price range help

[MR_SAZ]

yeah, guess what, i went for OBDII i JUST ordered the parts.(yeah, cheaper than OBDI).

the parts arrive in 8 days. they only had the antenna ring stock so i got that on hand.

Hi mate i`m doing the same conversion...could u tell me what parts are needed to make it all work...OBD2 would be nice if it were unleashed...

But im thinking the easier route is OBDI...

thanks

sash

[nes85er]

well im going OBDII, i received the parts today. so let the fun(wiring) begin:grin:

[japspecvr6]

Go Obd 1........My Two cents

[Bennetts22@aol.com]

good luck man but obd 2 is a waste of time and money. You can ask 10 people that have done swaps or do it for a living (AKG motorsparts) and not one will tell you obd 2. Its alot more work then you think and I have seen 3 people fail! save the pain and just go obd 1

[jrez]

whups, my mistake. I read "difficulties" as reliability. You are basically saying Jason, that the intake mani is the main issue, and I agree. But thats not a huge job in itself to do.
I'm not up to date on OBD1 chip costs, but I know OBD2 runs anywhere from 350 to around 700 bucks. There could be lower, there could be higher, but thats what ive seen. You just flash the memory, no disassembly. Can even be done with a laptop through the interior diagnostic port if you have the right program. But thats another topic.
Why do the after cat O2 sensor inputs have to faked for the DME, when on the race track? My info says they're required only for "closed loop" operation for max fuel economy at cruise, and monitoring of the cats themselves. The pre cat O2's are what dictates the fuel mixture for the engine. If there is more to it than that, please share.
In hindsight, I would install them also. But to purchase them now is a bit prohibitive. So unless i find a deal, I'll continue running without.

Anyway, Im not bashing OBD1 swaps or people that do them. To each their own. But I don't think OBD2 is deserved of all the negativity it recieves either. It's very doable, just requires some more effort, and Im certainly not some electronics engineer(Sometimes I wish)
The ac "on" input, is digital to the DME, from the climate control dash unit(my year anyway, early OBD2 may not be). trying to replicate it. Right now the AC works, but the idle does'nt step up before the compressor engages. The DME is supposed to control this after it recieves the "ac on" request from the climate control module.
My take on it anyway. As always, im open to correction.

No harm in discussion people, it is a forum after all. so let the debates rage!:D

Cheers'

John

[nes85er]

i dont know of any obd1 m52's that have dyno charts. sorry.

most people complain about the obd2 intake manifold (good for low torque, but restrictive on high rpm's.)

all i am saying is....... its not cheap or easy to get hp out of an obd2 car. programing isnt as cheap / readily available like a chip.......you still want the obd1 intake.....want a track pipe? better fake the ecu to "think" the rear o2 sensors are working when there not.....the list goes on.

also, for a newbe, the obd1 system is simple. and a lot of people have done it. there's a lot more information out there for him.



not trying to start a debate. just trying to help someone (who appears to be a newbee) make an educated decision. it sounds like he wanted easiest / cheapest / quickest route. i still say obd1.

never said it wasnt reliable. ive never owned an obd2 car....so i cannot comment on reliability of obd2. however, i have owned (4) e30 m/s50/2 obd1 cars in the last 4 years. very reliable. ive logged nearly 85k miles on converted cars......street and track. wonderful little packages.

cheers, jason

yeah right now i want the cheapest route (not necessarily quickest). Thats why i already chose obdII. This is my first swap im doing and the first one having to do with OBD systems, so its imperative i get good knowledge.
OBDII VS OBDI i honestly believe i cant go wrong with either of the systems. But ive chosen to go the OBDII route.
:up:

[nes85er]

OBD2 wiring - yup, a bit more involved than powering up an OBD1 harness.

Main items being the EWS2 system, vehicle speed input, and triggering the DME for A/C control. Im still working on the A/C thing. I'll post when its done.

Power output - I always read this on the internet, but I've never seen a comparison between the two(obd1- 2) All I hear is "obd 1 makes way more power than OBD2".
Guys on the e36 boards are posting dyno charts showing around 220-225 whp, with s52 cams, m50 intake, and programming, cold air intake, euro 540 MAF, etc.
If an obd1 m52 is making way more than that, I want to see the dyno chart.

As for obd2 giving problems, name one. I can't, and drive mine daily and on regular 4+ hour trips. ZERO issues with it, as it's all factory(the harness).
So again, who's had what issues? This falls into the "obd1 = more power" category as far as i see it.

My two cents

lol thanks for those two cents..means a lot coming from a dude that actually DID the m52 OBDII swap haha.

yeah man, i heard the OBDII wiring can be problematic but i think(with the help of my dad's knowledge and clever guys like jrez) ill be able to finish it up in no time.

as for the power, i think ill be satisfied for now with the stock m52 power.i just want to start the e30 up and get it ready to take me from point a to point b on a daily basis(new school semester).
THEN I plan to SC again (i was running a Whipple SC on the m20-the whine was addictive hehe).

as of right now i consider the swap coming along very smooth. No problems yet(im still waiting for the OBDII parts) then i think that "smoothness" will get preety damn rusty at times haha, but we'll see how it comes along. Ill keep on posting on the progress.

btw Jrez, whats the deal with the AC?

[Jason89i]

OBD2 wiring - yup, a bit more involved than powering up an OBD1 harness.

Power output - I always read this on the internet, but I've never seen a comparison between the two(obd1- 2) All I hear is "obd 1 makes way more power than OBD2".
Guys on the e36 boards are posting dyno charts showing around 220-225 whp, with s52 cams, m50 intake, and programming, cold air intake, euro 540 MAF, etc.
If an obd1 m52 is making way more than that, I want to see the dyno chart.

i dont know of any obd1 m52's that have dyno charts. sorry.

most people complain about the obd2 intake manifold (good for low torque, but restrictive on high rpm's.)

all i am saying is....... its not cheap or easy to get hp out of an obd2 car. programing isnt as cheap / readily available like a chip.......you still want the obd1 intake.....want a track pipe? better fake the ecu to "think" the rear o2 sensors are working when there not.....the list goes on.

also, for a newbe, the obd1 system is simple. and a lot of people have done it. there's a lot more information out there for him.

As for obd2 giving problems, name one. I can't, and drive mine daily and on regular 4+ hour trips. ZERO issues with it, as it's all factory(the harness).
So again, who's had what issues? This falls into the "obd1 = more power" category as far as i see it.

not trying to start a debate. just trying to help someone (who appears to be a newbee) make an educated decision. it sounds like he wanted easiest / cheapest / quickest route. i still say obd1.

never said it wasnt reliable. ive never owned an obd2 car....so i cannot comment on reliability of obd2. however, i have owned (4) e30 m/s50/2 obd1 cars in the last 4 years. very reliable. ive logged nearly 85k miles on converted cars......street and track. wonderful little packages.

cheers, jason

[jrez]

OBD2 wiring - yup, a bit more involved than powering up an OBD1 harness.

Main items being the EWS2 system, vehicle speed input, and triggering the DME for A/C control. Im still working on the A/C thing. I'll post when its done.

Power output - I always read this on the internet, but I've never seen a comparison between the two(obd1- 2) All I hear is "obd 1 makes way more power than OBD2".
Guys on the e36 boards are posting dyno charts showing around 220-225 whp, with s52 cams, m50 intake, and programming, cold air intake, euro 540 MAF, etc.
If an obd1 m52 is making way more than that, I want to see the dyno chart.

As for obd2 giving problems, name one. I can't, and drive mine daily and on regular 4+ hour trips. ZERO issues with it, as it's all factory(the harness).
So again, who's had what issues? This falls into the "obd1 = more power" category as far as i see it.

My two cents

[nes85er]

I can sell you the stuff you need for obd 1 minus the dme for 225.00

where were you man just a few days ago!!!???? I already ordered the OBDII parts.
BUT ill get back to you on that.
what kind of dme was the obdI communicating with?

[Bennetts22@aol.com]

obd 1

I can sell you the stuff you need for obd 1 minus the dme for 225.00

[nes85er]

Converting over to OBD-I need not be an expensive ordeal as Jason and I mentioned. There's probably no difference in the ultimate level of power attainable by either management system, except that the OBD-II intake manifold has very narrow runners, which runs into efficiency problems at high engine speeds.

Nevertheless, the M52 is a powerful engine even stock, and is plenty of reliable, torquey power for almost anyone. A maxed out engine can produce as much as 200 whp, and this includes S52 cams, CAI, M50 manifold, and free flowing exhaust. I believe this is what a bimmerforums member (torquey) did, and he used the stock Shark software ($350). It's pretty much knocking at the doors of a bone stock S50.

Good luck with your project. If you spend enough time, and get a helping hand from someone who's installed the OBD-II electronics into an E30, you can definitely get it to run. 8)

yeah OBDI doesnt have to be THAT expensive, but right now i was looking for the cheapest route since i need to spend money on school as well, and i need to be using that car in a few weeks already :D

but yeah, right now im just waiting to receive the parts (the dealership said about 7 days) they only had the antenna ring on hand, so thats the only thing i have right now.

[FredK]

Converting over to OBD-I need not be an expensive ordeal as Jason and I mentioned. There's probably no difference in the ultimate level of power attainable by either management system, except that the OBD-II intake manifold has very narrow runners, which runs into efficiency problems at high engine speeds.

Nevertheless, the M52 is a powerful engine even stock, and is plenty of reliable, torquey power for almost anyone. A maxed out engine can produce as much as 200 whp, and this includes S52 cams, CAI, M50 manifold, and free flowing exhaust. I believe this is what a bimmerforums member (torquey) did, and he used the stock Shark software ($350). It's pretty much knocking at the doors of a bone stock S50.

Good luck with your project. If you spend enough time, and get a helping hand from someone who's installed the OBD-II electronics into an E30, you can definitely get it to run. 8)

[Jason89i]

..... I find it ironic that you call me out but your post contributed nothing to this thread.

i find it ironic that you gave bad advice on something you no nothing about.

all i am saying is that if you have looked into the electronical systems, dont give advice on something your not familiar with.

Think about it for a second, if you have a complete m52 and you drop it into an e30 then all you really need to do is figure out the obdII electronics. If you want obdI then you're going to spend almost a grand buying m50 parts and modifying others. ........

obd2 IS A LOT OF WORK, has a lot more difficulties, yields less horse power, and is very difficult to modify in the future. unless you have strict emissions or referees to deal with, why would you choose obd2?

as far as cost.....if you piecemeal all the parts, it will cost a lot either way. your best bet.....find a whole m50 and strip it of electronics. (and no its not that easy with the obd2.)

cheers, jason

[nes85er]

Think about it for a second, if you have a complete m52 and you drop it into an e30 then all you really need to do is figure out the obdII electronics. If you want obdI then you're going to spend almost a grand buying m50 parts and modifying others. I find it ironic that you call me out but your post contributed nothing to this thread.

yeah, guess what, i went for OBDII i JUST ordered the parts.(yeah, cheaper than OBDI).

the parts arrive in 8 days. they only had the antenna ring stock so i got that on hand.